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IOS7 is ...

Started by Noodle Lizard, September 20, 2013, 02:12:15 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Milo

Quote from: Steven on September 20, 2013, 09:38:30 PM
I really don't think most people touch the stock browser with a shitty stick, or even use Chrome.

The stock browser works great in my view. Chrome on mobile is a sluggish, bloated piece of shit though. I'm on cyanogenmod but I don't think their version of the stock browser is particular modified.

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: Replies From View on September 20, 2013, 04:28:46 PM
It's especially disgusting with iPads.  People are used to upgrading their phones and contracts every couple of years, but here I am with a tablet computer that isn't on a contract, I paid for upfront and as such I'm used to thinking of it as an extension of the laptop I've had (and has worked without a hitch) for five years. 

Yet quite soon and deliberately this tablet is going to go from working perfectly to being obsolete, despite never being dropped or used in a steam room or whatever.  I can find a computer from the early 90s that'll still run its own version of word and open .doc files from its own era, yet applications for Apple devices (perhaps their rivals are the same; I don't know) simply stop running stuff their own age if you don't continue to upgrade.  Call me old fashioned but when I've spent £500 on something I want it to continue working until its circuit boards have rusted!
I had an idea for a business that would provide apps in the best status possible for your individual device, to stop things from becoming obsolete. It does seem insane that no-one with more power / ability than me has gone "maybe we ought to do something about this". Especially those greener companies that aren't thrilled with the sheer amount of wastage?

I had an idea for a bog brush that would last a hundred years but nobody would invest in it for some reason :(

falafel

Quote from: Replies From View on September 20, 2013, 10:13:43 PM
Chortle!  No it doesn't!!

Ah,  ok.

Excuse me while I immolate myself.

biggytitbo

Quote from: falafel on September 20, 2013, 09:58:47 PM
Safari on my partner's work ipad is mighty fiddly compared to my Android. Doesn't it still have a separate search bar?  L fucking O L.


Yeah safaris chrome is shite and always has been, but the browser engine in ios is so superior to android it's untrue - speed, dom performance, scrolling, blows android out of the water. As a developer of web apps android unfortunetly has become our new IE6, just because the web browser is so poor. Chrome for android on tablets is particularly bad, if you compare the ios version to the real thing on android it looks for all the world like the latter has been deliberately hobbled.

MojoJojo

Quote from: Replies From View on September 20, 2013, 07:29:52 PM
There's nothing wrong with the iPad itself - it's all lovely an' that if you can put the suffering of the people making it out of your mind.  The thing that took me surprise and might take others by surprise is the fact that for £500 you're not buying a device.  It's not like our day, when you could buy a Game Boy and enjoy that Game Boy and its games until either the Game Boy or the games break.  Instead for £500 you're buying access to a system that constantly updates and will soon leave your device sluggish and then useless.

Being used to computers of the past I would have expected my iPad to last around 4 or 5 years, and then finding it naturally running out of life span I might have bought another after half a decade.  Things have changed since my day, though, and feeling conned I will not being doing that once this one dies.  It's not £500 for a device - it's more like £500 for a 2 or 3 year subscription that leaves you with a chopping board if you don't resubscribe.  Doesn't say that on the box.

You're not forced to update you know. If you don't update your software, it will continue to work exactly as it has done, until the hardware starts to fail, just like your Gameboy.

I suspect from the way you were wanting to install the developer preview this hasn't occurred to you.

What you're actually wanting is Apple and app developers to add functionality to your iPad for free.

Replies From View

Quote from: MojoJojo on September 21, 2013, 08:55:52 AM
You're not forced to update you know. If you don't update your software, it will continue to work exactly as it has done, until the hardware starts to fail, just like your Gameboy.

I suspect from the way you were wanting to install the developer preview this hasn't occurred to you.

What you're actually wanting is Apple and app developers to add functionality to your iPad for free.

You're jumping to a few conclusions there about my intentions and desires and such.  Idle curiosity was all I had about the developer previews, and that's what I said at the time.

I was going by what other people have said in the past about iPods and phones no longer working because they hadn't updated their operating systems and their apps gradually stopped functioning.  If I've misunderstood these discussions then good; my concerns can be disregarded.  My concern is that older versions of things like Evernote and Dropbox will ultimately stop communicating with the internet because they won't be supported.  Not that I won't get free stuff, which isn't something I brought up at any point.


Blumf

Quote from: Milo on September 21, 2013, 05:59:40 AM
I'm on cyanogenmod but I don't think their version of the stock browser is particular modified.

Have you enabled the edge controls on it? Brilliant UI, can navigate and quickly flip through open tabs all with your thumb. Wipes the floor with every other touch browser I've seen.

Old Thrashbarg

That's just a standard Android feature.

Quote from: biggytitbo on September 21, 2013, 08:48:34 AM

As a developer of web apps android unfortunetly has become our new IE6, just because the web browser is so poor.

As a developer of web apps (mainly a ridiculously complicated and convoluted Intranet/email/DMS/calendar/anything-else-you-can-think-of enterprise application, but also smaller things for my own amusement) I've never had anything not work absolutely fine in Android since Chrome became default. And prior to that most things worked well in Dolphin. And these are thing that are very JavaScript heavy, along with daft stuff like a pure CSS drop-down menu with additional sub-menus that I felt sure would be pretty much unusable on touch devices. But no, it worked right off the bat in whichever Android browser as well as iOS.

In fact, the only browser we support that suffers any compromise in performance is IE8, and some things need specifically catering for in IE9, but everything else is pretty much equal.

olliebean

Quote from: Replies From View on September 21, 2013, 09:06:32 AMMy concern is that older versions of things like Evernote and Dropbox will ultimately stop communicating with the internet because they won't be supported.

Evernote's new update has already dropped iOS6 support (although you can still use the previous version). Seems a bit premature to drop support for the previous OS just a day or two after the new OS is released[nb]and with a significant number of users still using devices that aren't iOS7-compatible[/nb], but there you have it.

Artemis

Evernote?? More like NEVERnote!!

biggytitbo

Quote from: Old Thrashbarg on September 21, 2013, 02:38:43 PM
That's just a standard Android feature.

As a developer of web apps (mainly a ridiculously complicated and convoluted Intranet/email/DMS/calendar/anything-else-you-can-think-of enterprise application, but also smaller things for my own amusement) I've never had anything not work absolutely fine in Android since Chrome became default. And prior to that most things worked well in Dolphin. And these are thing that are very JavaScript heavy, along with daft stuff like a pure CSS drop-down menu with additional sub-menus that I felt sure would be pretty much unusable on touch devices. But no, it worked right off the bat in whichever Android browser as well as iOS.

In fact, the only browser we support that suffers any compromise in performance is IE8, and some things need specifically catering for in IE9, but everything else is pretty much equal.


Chrome on android has good standards support but is extremely buggy and slow. And if you're using HTML5 to make a real app on android you're forced to use the stock browser anyway, even if the native browser on new android versions is chrome and the stock browser is hidden away from the user. Its just an arse to use - it doesn't even behave the same from one version of jelly bean to another, it depends on the individual device. Try using position fixed on an S2 in Jelly bean thne use it on an s4 with the exact same OS. It's as buggy as hell in one yet fine in the other. Apple, for all their faults, would never let that happen. Android 4 just can't handle scrolling divs either, they work but the performance is atrocious, to the point where you have to avoid using them. Contrast to ios, where scrolling divs perform brilliantly, to the point where html5 actually has parity with native. And that's not trivial, scrolling panels are absolutely crucial to slick native like apps - ios allows the web compete, android is crippling it.

Replies From View

You're a scrolling div.

Hank Venture

Do I have to use the podcast app? It's truly shit.

Replies From View

Quote from: Hank Venture on September 22, 2013, 12:18:11 PM
Do I have to use the podcast app? It's truly shit.

On iOS?  Yes.  What's so dreadful about it, though?  All the podcasts are immediately updated and listed in date order, you can stream without downloading (if you want), you can start listening on one device then pick up where you left off from a different one, markers show when a podcast is only partially heard or has yet to be heard; what's not to love?

Hank Venture

I don't want to download new episodes on my phone, as I normally don't have included megabytes in my phone plan - it'll cost me a lot. I just want to see the episodes I've synchronized from my computer, don't need anything else.

Plus, it's slow and clunky, and two icons instead of one is pointless.


falafel

Quote from: Hank Venture on September 22, 2013, 01:03:08 PM
I don't want to download new episodes on my phone, as I normally don't have included megabytes in my phone plan - it'll cost me a lot. I just want to see the episodes I've synchronized from my computer, don't need anything else.

Plus, it's slow and clunky, and two icons instead of one is pointless.

Can't you set it to only download on wifi?

Replies From View

Quote from: Hank Venture on September 22, 2013, 01:03:08 PM
I don't want to download new episodes on my phone, as I normally don't have included megabytes in my phone plan - it'll cost me a lot. I just want to see the episodes I've synchronized from my computer, don't need anything else.

Plus, it's slow and clunky, and two icons instead of one is pointless.

Hardly a complaint about the podcast app then, is it?  More that you can't download or stream much with your data plan.

The issue of playing any sound files not obtained through iTunes and its peripheral apps - whether it's music from your computer or podcasts - is the hurdle that I wish they'd get rid of but they patently never will.  It's not a massive pain in the arse to get files from your computer onto your device, because you can just drag them into iTunes and they'll copy over.  But having to go through iTunes is irritating.

The real shitness is transferring files from your device back to your computer.  The iPhone just can't be treated as a USB stick like other company's phones.  I use an application called iExplorer to transfer large videos and sound files that I've recorded with my phone onto my computer, because no viable solution has been provided by Apple - they expect you to use Dropbox and email for them which is nonsense.  And iExplorer doesn't label the files clearly - it's all random letters and numbers so it's no fun on that level.


The podcast application is good though.

Replies From View

Quote from: falafel on September 22, 2013, 01:52:09 PM
Can't you set it to only download on wifi?

Yes you can.  Or just wait until you're on wifi and then stream it.  You never find your phone storing up files to delete - that's one of the great things about it.  The archives exist to dip into at leisure.

Ant Farm Keyboard

On 64 bit architecture:

Quote from: Steve Lampkins on September 20, 2013, 07:11:16 PM
I don't think it's just about taking advantage of more RAM. The comments to this article have some very interesting viewpoints on the advantages of going 64bit.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/12/apple_64_bit_iphone_pros_and_cons/


I updated iOS7 on my iPad 2, and there is a bit of a performance hit. I hope the zoom when closing apps to go the springboard can be switched off at some point, as it still stutters for me. I'll probably upgrade to the iPad 5 when it's announced next month, but I would probably have done that anyway.

You can reduce the animations in the Accessibility settings.

Apparently, the biggest interest for the switch to 64 bit is that the CPU is based on the more recent ARMv8 architecture. It introduces a different instruction set which is more efficient.

http://anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-review/4

The cryptographic elements are part of the improvement but there are not the only advantages.

Apple already transitioned their OSes three or four times to different architectures/ISA:
- from the Motorola 680x0 range of CPUs to the PowerPC 32 bit
- from PowerPC 32 bit to PowerPC 64 bit (the G5), which was left unfinished
- from PowerPC to x86
- from x86 to x86-64

Most of them went smoothly, much more than the Windows switch from 32 to 64 bit. Apple controls almost every aspect of the hardware, the OS and a few major apps, and they allow a widespread use of fat/universal binaries that include different versions of the code for different ISAs in the same bundle. That's one benefit that comes from NeXTStep/OpenStep, which was quite advanced in its days for cross-compilation and binaries for multiple architectures (they started on Motorola, then were available on x86 and a few RISC implementations).

The switches to 64 bit were mostly painless, with many less issues than on Windows. There could be some performance hit on PowerPC CPUs for reasons related to their specific architecture. So, I expect the move to ARMv8 64 bit to be as painless for the user.

The Anandtech article has anyway a very valid point about how memory doesn't actually matter at this point. It would have been an issue in 2015-2016.

It will be interesting to see how Google and the Android hardware makers handle their own transition. I expect Google to take a little more control at this point over customization and updates and implement something within 6 months (Samsung may want 64 bit as a selling point for the Galaxy S5).

Quote from: Hank Venture on September 22, 2013, 12:18:11 PM
Do I have to use the podcast app? It's truly shit.

I think I mentioned in HappyTree's thread, but use something like Downcast. I've never been unable to find the podcasts I want through it. Instacast is also good. Tons of options, and supports background downloading on Wi-Fi. It even triggers downloads based on location, if you want.

Blumf

#83
Quote from: Ant Farm Keyboard on September 22, 2013, 02:42:39 PM
It will be interesting to see how Google and the Android hardware makers handle their own transition. I expect Google to take a little more control at this point over customization and updates and implement something within 6 months (Samsung may want 64 bit as a selling point for the Galaxy S5).

It should be okay for most stuff as it's Java (Dalvik) based. But there is some native code sprinkled around too, not sure if the app packages allow 'fat' multi-arch distribution.

EDIT: Yep, looks like it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APK_%28file_format%29

Replies From View

Quote from: Steve Lampkins on September 22, 2013, 04:25:08 PM
It even triggers downloads based on location, if you want.

It's true that people are gradually forgetting how to wipe their own arses.  I have seen it on News 24.

olliebean

Quote from: Replies From View on September 22, 2013, 01:56:30 PMThe real shitness is transferring files from your device back to your computer.  The iPhone just can't be treated as a USB stick like other company's phones.  I use an application called iExplorer to transfer large videos and sound files that I've recorded with my phone onto my computer, because no viable solution has been provided by Apple - they expect you to use Dropbox and email for them which is nonsense.  And iExplorer doesn't label the files clearly - it's all random letters and numbers so it's no fun on that level.

You can just plug it in, open it like a USB drive, and drag recorded video files onto your computer, though. You don't even need iTunes installed afaict. You can't do it with Voice Memos though.

Hank Venture

Quote from: Replies From View on September 22, 2013, 01:56:30 PM
Hardly a complaint about the podcast app then, is it?  More that you can't download or stream much with your data plan.

Quote from: falafel on September 22, 2013, 01:52:09 PM
Can't you set it to only download on wifi?

Yes, but... say I have podcasts A, B, C, X, Y and Z on my computer. I'm currently working my way through ABC, 5 episodes at the time - not much room because of the amount of music I have on it. Why must XYZ also be displayed? I don't want to listen to those yet, I have specifically set the settings so that only ABC will be synched, five at the time. It's annoying when I have to scroll through a long list of podcasts to get to those I care about at the time, when that's the whole purpose of the sync options in iTunes.

Replies From View

Quote from: olliebean on September 22, 2013, 10:32:23 PM
You can just plug it in, open it like a USB drive, and drag recorded video files onto your computer, though. You don't even need iTunes installed afaict. You can't do it with Voice Memos though.

This happens when I plug it into somebody else's Windows computer.  Not when I plug it into my Mac laptop though, where it insists on me using the iTunes interface and everything it can't do.

Replies From View

Quote from: Hank Venture on September 22, 2013, 11:24:17 PM
Yes, but... say I have podcasts A, B, C, X, Y and Z on my computer. I'm currently working my way through ABC, 5 episodes at the time - not much room because of the amount of music I have on it. Why must XYZ also be displayed? I don't want to listen to those yet, I have specifically set the settings so that only ABC will be synched, five at the time. It's annoying when I have to scroll through a long list of podcasts to get to those I care about at the time, when that's the whole purpose of the sync options in iTunes.

But it won't be downloading XY and Z if you've set it not to do so.  You can be subscribed and synched to as many podcasts as you like and download as few of those to hear offline as you fancy.

It seems like your main problem is with scrolling through XYZ to get to the more frequently listened to ABC, in which case I would simply move AB and C closer to the top.  That's just straightforward tidying.

I prefer the new arrangement precisely because after marking podcasts as heard I still have the option of listening to them again.  I rarely listen to stuff only once, and I rarely want to actually download the files before listening to them because they're soon filling up gigabytes of space.

Tiny Poster

Fucking hell, Hank Venture