Penn Jillette is crowdsourcing now

[NoSleep]

That would be because of the tone of your own posts rather than anything else you care to blame.

[Steven]

That would be because of the tone of your own posts rather than anything else you care to blame.

Whereas your own posts exude an innate avuncular warmth..

[thugler]

Fair enough, but I do think Herring started performing first?

Citation needed.

The first proper thing either of them were involved in (as far as I can tell) was a group project at University, other than that it was auditioning for the oxford footlights thing.

You can think whatever you like and have whatever theories you like, but you also have to provide some sort of basis other than your own hunches or people will point out that (based on what they've heard from those involved) you are most likely wrong.

If you don't have any good evidence then maybe just present it as a hunch rather than saying things like
'I can easily pick out lines and ideas Stew came up with'.

I also happen to think Moore, Jillette (despite being a libertarian arsehole to an extent) and Herring are plenty talented even if they are commonly seen as the lesser lights of their double acts.

Apologies for the thread hijacking, I shouldn't have risen to squabbling.

[Steven]

Citation needed.

You haven't cited any evidence to support your negations other than the same 'I reckon' shite that I have!

You can think whatever you like and have whatever theories you like, but you also have to provide some sort of basis other than your own hunches or people will point out that (based on what they've heard from those involved) you are most likely wrong.

If you don't have any good evidence then maybe just present it as a hunch rather than saying things like
'I can easily pick out lines and ideas Stew came up with'.

I did! I said "I've noticed a dynamic with double-acts.." when talking about Penn & Teller than developed it out to a couple of others that briefly came to mind, it is obviously me opining on something rather than some form of absolute doctrine.

I also happen to think Moore, Jillette (despite being a libertarian arsehole to an extent) and Herring are plenty talented even if they are commonly seen as the lesser lights of their double acts.

Moore was a better actor and obviously musically gifted, just not abviously as intelligent and witty as Cook, but then Cook had his own pitfalls too. Jillette is nowhere near close to as talented at slight of hand or smart as Teller, he's a big sausage fingered Carnival Barker who can juggle a bit. Herring's funny to a point, but nowhere near as smart as Lee, who can do jokes but is more conceptually motivated, which is (IMO no backsies!!!!!!!!) why I think I can pick out bits and pieces he's come up with in their past work.

[NoSleep]

Whereas your own posts exude an innate avuncular warmth..

Remember when I apologised to mook? I know I come across badly sometimes, but that's just the tone of my posts[nb]Apart from those to the perpetually disingenuous and insinuating TheFailedMuppet[/nb], not, as you're doing here, being outright stroppy to other posters (particularly the outburst toward Ignatius_S) who are being polite in their replies.

Did you used to post as KLG-7A/B/C/DDD?

[Steven]

Remember when I apologised to mook? I know I come across badly sometimes, but that's just the tone of my posts[nb]Apart from those to the perpetually disingenuous and insinuating TheFailedMuppet[/nb], not, as you're doing here, being outright stroppy to other posters (particularly the outburst toward Ignatius_S) who are being polite in their replies.

I haven't felt Ignatius_S being polite at least to me, many times he'll come in and quote a post of mine and say I'm wrong about something so he can spout off but ends up basically agreeing with what I said. I've let it go to the point that I have to start to point out that I don't understand what's going on with that at all and have found it very annoying. Other than that he's been fairly knowledgeable etc. But don't forget a lot of people on here are just sneery fuckers (yourself included) as evidenced in this thread where they've taken a minor disagreement with myself and thugler based on semantics as a chance to sit around like vultures ready to peck at soft white sclera.

Did you used to post as KLG-7A/B/C/DDD?

Hmm, are people really bringing in agendas from bouts with OTHER posters into arguing with me? I have never used a sockpuppet or other account on here, only this one which is my given name.

[NoSleep]

I wouldn't say the differences in your opinion with thugler can be reduced to semantics, but anything you say at this point.


I'm not "bringing in" an "agenda", I asked a question of you, mostly because your tone reminds me of that poster, although I've now seen your account wasn't started in the last couple of years. I can't really remember you posting before the last couple of years, though.

[Steven]

I'm not "bringing in" an "agenda", I asked a question of you, mostly because your tone reminds me of that poster, although I've now seen your account wasn't started in the last couple of years. I can't really remember you posting before the last couple of years, though.

My 'tone' is exasperation at how sneery and anithetical many people are on here, I've tried my best to be polite down the years but it's reached a point where I just can't put up with it any more (cue Network gif) and you have brought an agenda because we've had arguments in other threads hence you're bringing your ire from those over to this one even though it is of no concern of yours.

You don't 'really remember me' because I never used an avatar up until a couple of years ago, that tends to be what people remember rather than their username or their words (memory works a lot better with pictures than anything else) unfortunately for either me, or you.

[NoSleep]

My 'tone' is exasperation at how sneery and anithetical many people are on here, I've tried my best to be polite down the years but it's reached a point where I just can't put up with it any more (cue Network gif) and you have brought an agenda because we've had arguments in other threads hence you're bringing your ire from those over to this one even though it is of no concern of yours.

That's all in your mind, though. You've decided how I must be thinking and got it all wrong (which you've done elsewhere and to others in this thread). If I've disagreed with you in other threads, that has nothing to do with what's going on here, where I have actually pointed to your tone in replying to others as if they're out to get you (it doesn't look like that to me). I was even going to post in the The United States Of America thread to agree with you on what a great album it is (probably in my top 10 rock/pop albums of all time), and I've posted in your blues thread (in agreement there, too) and you've posted in the microtonal thread I started with no blood being spilled, either. Best take each day one at a time.

You don't 'really remember me' because I never used an avatar up until a couple of years ago, that tends to be what people remember rather than their username or their words (memory works a lot better with pictures than anything else) unfortunately for either me, or you.

Yeah, well, there you go again making assumptions about me as to why I don't remember you (you're not doing very well trying to read my mind). Nothing to do with avatars or lack of them, I don't remember your name or or remember seeing a large number of daily regular posting by you as you now appear to be making in the last couple of years.

[Danger Man]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUuj3BEkoXU

[Steven]

That's all in your mind, though. You've decided how I must be thinking and got it all wrong (which you've done elsewhere and to others in this thread). If I've disagreed with you in other threads, that has nothing to do with what's going on here, where I have actually pointed to your tone in replying to others as if they're out to get you (it doesn't look like that to me).

You're human, you're hardly literally objective, people have all sorts of emotional baggage and agendas from just life or previous episodes on the forum etc and can't help but be extricably interconnected without even being fully conscious of it. I still have a bad taste in my mouth from your 'tone' in the Sceintology and various other threads, again, I'd try not to let that colour my reaction to you in a thread on a differing subject, but it happens with me all the time where it's seems clear people are doing that I just tell them to get fucked as I think their agendising is obvious.

Yeah, well, there you go again making assumptions about me as to why I don't remember you (you're not doing very well trying to read my mind). Nothing to do with avatars or lack of them, I don't remember your name or or remember seeing a large number of daily regular posting by you as you now appear to be making in the last couple of years.

Yes, because nobody else around here makes assumptions do they? It is everything to do with avatars because as I've said your mind connects a personality to an image far better than it does a name or general wording, the fact you think you can be compeltey objective about that breeds a further constant arrogance I detect in you, it may not be ENTIRELY why you're noticing me a lot more, but it's part of it I'm sure. The other would be as I've mentioned before I have had tendonitis for over half a year now and so have been on the computer far more than I usually am, and have been unable to partake in most of my hobbies (yes, even that one!) and due to constantly doing art, music, magic and writing it's probably made me depressed and frustrated that I have been literally crippled in that regard.

[thugler]

You haven't cited any evidence to support your negations other than the same 'I reckon' shite that I have!

It's just based on what I've heard/read them say over many years, I don't have any greater authority. I'm not really claiming much more than you being a little harsh and making some statements which aren't really supported by much evidence.

I apologise for starting a ruckus, I didn't intend to and was probably just bored. I really only took exception to what I perceived as you doing down supposed lesser halves of double acts (I don't see Herring as this, at least during their double act era). I was probably over zealous in my reaction and I apologise.

I'm sure we can all get along.

[NoSleep]

You're human, you're hardly literally objective, people have all sorts of emotional baggage and agendas from just life or previous episodes on the forum etc and can't help but be extricably interconnected without even being fully conscious of it.

What does this have to do with anything I've said? Are you implying you know me better than I do myself? You can't seem to help yourself thinking you have all other people off pat and yet they just can't see it for themselves. That's literally what you have said several times now.

I still have a bad taste in my mouth from your 'tone' in the Sceintology and various other threads, again, I'd try not to let that colour my reaction to you in a thread on a differing subject, but it happens with me all the time where it's seems clear people are doing that I just tell them to get fucked as I think their agendising is obvious.

In the Scientology thread I thought you were wrong in conflating Catholic confession with the keeping of written records of every word spoken by a devotee in interviews as practiced in Scientology. That was about it, nothing more nothing less.

Yes, because nobody else around here makes assumptions do they? It is everything to do with avatars because as I've said your mind connects a personality to an image far better than it does a name or general wording, the fact you think you can be compeltey objective about that breeds a further constant arrogance I detect in you, it may not be ENTIRELY why you're noticing me a lot more, but it's part of it I'm sure.

It's nothing to with avatars in my case, and that's nothing to do with "being objective". Can't speak for all these other people you appear to have "nailed", but there's probably a few others at least, like me, that aren't bothered with avatars as they can change every week in some cases, as I connect the personality to the user's name or even the personality to the new name (as in the case of Borboski).

The other would be as I've mentioned before I have had tendonitis for over half a year now and so have been on the computer far more than I usually am, and have been unable to partake in most of my hobbies (yes, even that one!) and due to constantly doing art, music, magic and writing it's probably made me depressed and frustrated that I have been literally crippled in that regard.

Well, that's rough and probably frustrating and probably explains your increased presence better than adopting an avatar. Is it in your shoulder and what's the chances of it clearing? I'm prone to rhomboid tendinitis myself but hold it at bay by exercise with dumbbells (hasn't returned for years and years thanks to this). But you have to get it to heal first and the best thing I found for that was not to take any painkillers or use rubs to anaesthetise it, so that I wasn't able to keep tearing it by accident; feeling the pain taught me how to look after it and let it heal.

[QDRPHNC]

I've seen their Vegas show 4 times, and in my opinion, Penn is a lot more than a carnival barker.

[Noodle Lizard]

I've seen their Vegas show 4 times, and in my opinion, Penn is a lot more than a carnival barker.

I don't think anyone's really saying otherwise, but there's very little denying that he's an egomaniacal blowhard in all other pursuits.

By the way, when did you last see their show?  I've only seen it twice (in 2013 and then a couple of months back: fat Penn & thin Penn), but I do find it a bit underwhelming given the hype.  I think they really suffer from having performed most of the routines on TV at various points going back to the late 80s, and they don't seem to add new ones with any regularity[nb]to be fair, they had a high-concept new one last time I saw them, but it wasn't good and the audience didn't seem to understand what was going on[/nb]. 

Admittedly, I think my performances would be quite lackluster too if I was doing the same thing every night for decades, but then again it's a job they get paid very handsomely for and, if they're bored of the old routines, perhaps Penn could spend less time piss-arsing about with reality TV and (ugh) becoming a singer songwriter, and focus on some new material instead.  I get the feeling he's sick of being "a magician", having admitted to never being fond of the craft in the first place.

[Steven]

Admittedly, I think my performances would be quite lackluster too if I was doing the same thing every night for decades, but then again it's a job they get paid very handsomely for and, if they're bored of the old routines, perhaps Penn could spend less time piss-arsing about with reality TV and (ugh) becoming a singer songwriter, and focus on some new material instead.  I get the feeling he's sick of being "a magician", having admitted to never being fond of the craft in the first place.

Penn doesn't seem to be an ideas or method man, that mostly comes from Teller, Penn's the PR hence the Carnival Barker comment I made. The old way you'd generally class teams of thieves and scammers was one was specified 'The Brain', one 'The Mouth' and the other 'The Engineer', such as the sleight of hand man or safe-cracker etc of the outfit. In this case Teller is both Brain/Engineer and Penn is The Mouth.

Well, that's rough and probably frustrating and probably explains your increased presence better than adopting an avatar. Is it in your shoulder and what's the chances of it clearing? I'm prone to rhomboid tendinitis myself but hold it at bay by exercise with dumbbells (hasn't returned for years and years thanks to this). But you have to get it to heal first and the best thing I found for that was not to take any painkillers or use rubs to anaesthetise it, so that I wasn't able to keep tearing it by accident; feeling the pain taught me how to look after it and let it heal.

It's in the shoulder and I did it in December exercising, but it's in an old injury that gets strained every few years but this is the longest it's taken to heal, been putting ice packs on it then having hot showers and mainling Ibuprofen for six months which can't be good for me. It was getting better over the first 2 or so months then I slept on it funny and in the morning it was back to square one, and maybe the painkillers are a bad idea as I climbed over a wall the other day and I think it's given it a twinge that wasn't there before. It's fucking infuriating.

[QDRPHNC]

I don't think anyone's really saying otherwise, but there's very little denying that he's an egomaniacal blowhard in all other pursuits.

By the way, when did you last see their show?  I've only seen it twice (in 2013 and then a couple of months back: fat Penn & thin Penn), but I do find it a bit underwhelming given the hype.  I think they really suffer from having performed most of the routines on TV at various points going back to the late 80s, and they don't seem to add new ones with any regularity

I was responding to Steven's specific thing.

The first, and best, show was in 2001, when they had just started performing in Vegas. The most recent was last year, and yeah, you can tell they've been doing this a few nights a week for 14 years. Still very entertaining and some moments of greatness (Teller's

Spoiler alert

fishbowl

[close]

thing, Penn's

Spoiler alert

nailgun

[close]

routine.)

[Noodle Lizard]

Still very entertaining and some moments of greatness (Teller's

Spoiler alert

fishbowl

[close]

thing, Penn's

Spoiler alert

nailgun

[close]

routine.)

Problem is they've burned both those effects several times on TV already.  Still good to see live, of course, and it wouldn't matter to the average Vegas-goer with comped seats, but if you're even a casual follower of theirs you will have seen it a few times before (as I'm sure you did).  Of course you can't expect large-scale magic to revolutionise nearly as often as, say, a comedy routine, but someone like Derren Brown will come out with a new tour every couple of years with all new material (well, recycled effects, different presentation). 

So I'd say their biggest issue is probably that they have a residency and have to perform almost year-round, and probably don't feel much like working on the show when they're off-stage - instead opting to SING FUCKING SONGS ABOUT ATHEISM to pass the free time.

On the other hand, Fool Us is still enjoyable (not sure how the next series hosted by, er, Alyson Hannigan will go) and it's nice that magic is seeing something of a resurgence in popularity in the US ... even if it's often not very good.