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Biggest C**Ts in the recording industry

Started by leighhart, September 24, 2013, 09:29:43 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

PeterCornelius

Quote from: NoSleep on May 10, 2021, 12:33:54 PM
Being ripped off often leads to the rippee treating others similarly down the line, the wrong lessons having been learned from the experience.

Radiohead got sued by The Hollies for a stock chord sequence they had merely used beforehand, then Radiohead later sued Lana Del Rey for the same chord sequence, which is creepy.

I agree to a point - the chord sequence is fairly common, I think it's G to B7 - it's what Thom sings over it. It does sound similar to the initial vocal melody on Air That I Breathe, which is probably what got the publishers phoning their lawyers. (The Hollies didn't write the song). I didn't know that Radiohead sued LDR for using a piece of music that they had already been sued for using. Did they win?!

PeterCornelius

Sorry @The Culture Bunker - just saw your post.

NoSleep

Quote from: PeterCornelius on May 10, 2021, 12:44:23 PM
I agree to a point - the chord sequence is fairly common, I think it's G to B7 - it's what Thom sings over it. It does sound similar to the initial vocal melody on Air That I Breathe, which is probably what got the publishers phoning their lawyers. (The Hollies didn't write the song). I didn't know that Radiohead sued LDR for using a piece of music that they had already been sued for using. Did they win?!

I can't remember or care to look it up, but it was mercenary either way. All those chord sequence cases should be thrown out of court; a basic failure of understanding about how music is made.

Pauline Walnuts

Quote from: NoSleep on May 10, 2021, 12:50:59 PM
I can't remember or care to look it up, but it was mercenary either way. All those chord sequence cases should be thrown out of court; a basic failure of understanding about how music is made.

It was the melody as well. I know someone's already said that, but...



PaulTMA

It's that "she's running out the door bit" on Creep that tipped it over the edge for sounding like The Air That I Breathe.  He probably unconsciously sang that melody over the top of the similar chords, having the Hollies song at the back of his mind somewhere.  I'm sure some Radiohead fans have issued a fatwaa on Albert Hammond's family at some point

buzby

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on May 10, 2021, 12:36:55 PM
It wasn't the Hollies who sued, but the publishers of 'The Air That I Breathe" (written by Albert "Bootleg" Hammond and Mike Hazelwood).
Similarly, it wasn't Radiohead that was 'in dispute' with Elizabeth Grant over Get Free, but their publisher, Warner Chappell (who denied they had sued her, only approached her with a copyright claim - the ASCAP database still only shows her and her producers as writers for the track though).
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42633115

NoSleep

That's just one side's word against the other.

gilbertharding

Watched a documentary about Ronnie Wood the other evening, which featured a bit of a discussion between Peter Grant and Malcolm McClaren - and then Rod Stewart and Ronnie Lane (a bit) slagged off Peter Grant. But he wasn't as bad as Don Arden, was he? I mean, at least if he was your manager you'd get paid properly, surely?

DrGreggles

There was a guy called Stuart who once showed an interest in managing my band.
Now, he's definitely the biggest cunt I encountered in my (admittedly brief) music career.
Nothing specific, just an all-round cunt.
A smarmy, waistcoat-wearing, ponytailed cunt.
Cunt.

Echo Valley 2-6809

Quote from: DrGreggles on May 10, 2021, 05:26:59 PM
There was a guy called Stuart who once showed an interest in managing my band.
Now, he's definitely the biggest cunt I encountered in my (admittedly brief) music career.
Nothing specific, just an all-round cunt.
A smarmy, waistcoat-wearing, ponytailed cunt.
Cunt.

Stuart Wells?

willbo

I thought Creep was meant to be a steal of Al Green's lets stay together

Bently Sheds

XTC's manager was sufficiently awful that they had to sign an NDA forbidding them to talk about all the stuff he got up to.

I seem to remember Andy Partridge commenting that he was on stage one night during another one of their long, gruelling tours. He looked out at the packed out audience, worked out they'd each paid, say, $10 for a ticket and couldn't understand why the band members were still on £40 a week despite their sell-out gigs, chart hits, Top of the Pops performances and considerable album sales.

willbo

I once worked at a venue where Peter Andre played his hits live. We weren't supposed to go in when they were rehearsing but I sneaked behind a corner to grab something I needed. He was giving his band this really warm, empathic speech about how grateful he was to have them and how they were doing a better job than he's hoped for. He sounded so nice. so not him i guess.

Lungpuddle

I really love quite a few Guided by Voices songs, so it was a bit gutting to read the official biography of Robert Pollard and find out he's an absolute cunt. I hate twats who mistreat people in the service industry. Probably not the worst, but still. Wanker.

Egyptian Feast

Quote from: Lungpuddle on May 12, 2021, 11:36:51 AM
I really love quite a few Guided by Voices songs, so it was a bit gutting to read the official biography of Robert Pollard and find out he's an absolute cunt. I hate twats who mistreat people in the service industry. Probably not the worst, but still. Wanker.

Do tell more. I too hate twats who mistreat people in the service industry, but always thought from the little I've heard of him that he seemed OK.

Nice Peter Andre story, willbo. I could easily imagine him giving that speech. Bless 'im.

phantom_power

I think with Pollard you also have to factor in how drunk he is at the time of the story

Epic Bisto

Quote from: gilbertharding on May 10, 2021, 04:41:53 PM
Watched a documentary about Ronnie Wood the other evening, which featured a bit of a discussion between Peter Grant and Malcolm McClaren - and then Rod Stewart and Ronnie Lane (a bit) slagged off Peter Grant. But he wasn't as bad as Don Arden, was he? I mean, at least if he was your manager you'd get paid properly, surely?


Peter Grant was an angel compared to Don Arden.  Despite being able to make people shit themselves just by seeing his wannabe gangster visage waddling up the street, he always made sure people got paid - the Mark Blake book on him (which is a cracker) mentions him managing a group that were previously with Arden - can't remember exactly who they were, could've been the Small Faces - and they were astonished that he didn't rip them off.

Lungpuddle

Quote from: Egyptian Feast on May 12, 2021, 01:19:03 PM
Do tell more. I too hate twats who mistreat people in the service industry, but always thought from the little I've heard of him that he seemed OK.

I'm probably conflating a few things, I can't really remember the details. I just remember a waiter thinking his younger wife is his daughter and Pollard throwing a strop and not tipping. There's a lot of moments where his drunken antics grate for me but I thought they were presented in a Legend Gary sort of way, which is probably what pissed me off. On an almost-related note, the Beautiful South biography has a section devoted to 'Heaton has an unhealthy lifestyle and is clearly an alcoholic, will he go the way of Shane MacGowan?' which the writer resolves by basically going, 'nah, he can stop if he wanted to.' Which is piss poor and damaging reasoning. The only thing that saves it is that Heaton has, err, stopped drinking. As far as I know.

I was meant to be talking about Robert Pollard, wasn't I?

Keebleman

Quote from: Epic Bisto on May 12, 2021, 03:43:41 PM

Peter Grant was an angel compared to Don Arden.  Despite being able to make people shit themselves just by seeing his wannabe gangster visage waddling up the street, he always made sure people got paid - the Mark Blake book on him (which is a cracker) mentions him managing a group that were previously with Arden - can't remember exactly who they were, could've been the Small Faces - and they were astonished that he didn't rip them off.

Yeah, the verdict on Grant is that he may have been a thug and a bully but at least he was honest.  Here's an interview with him where he lays out his management philosophy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM9bBu55EXE

It also shows that i) his voice was about three octaves higher than I would have expected, and ii) Led Zep sounded remarkably weedy live.

Ant Farm Keyboard

Arden ultimately left the band in full control of their material.

One guy who looked effective but would ultimately betray everybody for his own interest was Allen Klein, founder of ABKCO.
Started out as Sam Cooke's accountant, gave him some good advice that allowed him to gain control of his later recordings with RCA, but had clauses written that gave him full property ten or twenty years in. Later, he played the same trick on the Rolling Stones, as he promised to break them out of their contract with Decca and improve on Andrew Loog Oldham's shoddy management, while he actually secured the rights to their sixties recordings for himself. Jagger and Richards may still make money from writing the songs, but the band has very little authority and makes zero money (at least very little) with the recordings of this era. They can only block outtakes from being released, which they've repeatedly done.
Klein also screwed the Beatles (cf. John Belushi's cameo as "Ron Decline" in The Rutles), particularly George Harrison, when he secretly played both sides during the "He's So Fine"/"My Sweet Lord" lawsuit.
And he was also responsible for depriving Richard Ashcroft out of any publishing royalties on "Bitter Sweet Symphony" due to the use of a sample from "The Last Time" (but performed by the Andrew Loog Oldham Orchestra). Ashcroft had a talk with him (or an underling) to settle the matter, and Klein promised him it would be fifty-fifty. The part he hadn't mentioned was that it would be fifty percent Jagger, fifty percent Richards (both published on ABKCO, which gets most of their share) and a flat fee of $1,000 to Ashcroft for contributing to additional lyrics. Ashcroft ultimately received full publishing rights after Klein died.

Kankurette

Heaton is much healthier these days. Very into cycling. He certainly looks well when I see him around my area.


Lungpuddle

Quote from: Kankurette on May 13, 2021, 01:28:31 AM
Heaton is much healthier these days. Very into cycling. He certainly looks well when I see him around my area.

Glad to hear that! I think the last time I saw him live was when he was doing The 8th, and he was great, really funny guy. Meant to be seeing him with Jacqui Abbott in Leicester soon as it's safe. When I brought him up I didn't mean I think he's a big cunt or anything, it was part of the writing that annoyed me, not Heaton himself. Probably the same goes for Robert Pollard too.

"Lungpuddle, you've added nothing."

Kankurette

Heaton is my local famous person, I've seen him on the school run a few times. My mum sold him a cake at the Didsbury Festival. She's a fan of the Housemartins, she must have been honoured. (It was the writer I thought was being a cunt, tbh.)

Does Heaton collect crisp packets or am I imagining things?

holyzombiejesus

Not sure about that but he did (or does) collect those Do Not Disturb signs they give you in hotels as he used them to make the Kings Arms (that pub he bought) look really shit.

kalowski

Quote from: leighhart on September 24, 2013, 09:29:43 AM
This guy takes fuckery to new heights, Zane Lowe needs a kick up the arse for indulging this buffoon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2T0fMkZoMo&feature=player_embedded

any others spring to mind?
Ha. Kayne says "Live like you could die tomorrow". Makes me think of the line in Steve Toltz's Quicksand. "People say, "Live life like it's your last day" but if I did that I'd have sex with everyone and inject heroin into my eyeballs."

Kankurette

I really hate that whole 'live like you were dying' thing tbh. Easier said than done.

PeterCornelius

Quote from: Kankurette on May 13, 2021, 01:28:31 AM
Heaton is much healthier these days. Very into cycling. He certainly looks well when I see him around my area.

I remember seeing him do Old Red Eyes on - I think - Later with JH. He looked and sounded terrible, sweating profusely. I assumed that he'd got the make-up department to make him look like the titular character but maybe I was wrong.

PeterCornelius

Alan Price must surely be at the top table for this thread.

He arranges 'House of the Rising Sun', gets sole credit on the record, it goes to number one in the UK and US ... he leaves the Animals and refuses to split the royalties with them. He's still doing so, despite Eric Burdon pleading with him to reconsider.

Without the others, he'd probably have remained a jobbing musician, playing the pubs around Durham. Yes I know he already had his own group and yes the band imploded after he left. But it doesn't excuse his behaviour.

Glebe

Quote from: PeterCornelius on May 14, 2021, 10:41:17 AMAlan Price must surely be at the top table for this thread.

He arranges 'House of the Rising Sun', gets sole credit on the record, it goes to number one in the UK and US ... he leaves the Animals and refuses to split the royalties with them. He's still doing so, despite Eric Burdon pleading with him to reconsider.

Without the others, he'd probably have remained a jobbing musician, playing the pubs around Durham. Yes I know he already had his own group and yes the band imploded after he left. But it doesn't excuse his behaviour.

Weird, that song popped into my head last night.