Biggest C**Ts in the recording industry

[phantom_power]

Alan Price must surely be at the top table for this thread.

He arranges 'House of the Rising Sun', gets sole credit on the record, it goes to number one in the UK and US ... he leaves the Animals and refuses to split the royalties with them. He's still doing so, despite Eric Burdon pleading with him to reconsider.

Without the others, he'd probably have remained a jobbing musician, playing the pubs around Durham. Yes I know he already had his own group and yes the band imploded after he left. But it doesn't excuse his behaviour.

It is an old standard so I suppose what makes that record different from the others is the arrangement, in terms of royalties at least. Bit shit not to share it with your bandmates though as they would undoubtedly bring something less tangible to the mix

[NoSleep]

The Animals version of House of the Rising Sun is based on the version that Dylan recorded, that he had ripped off wholesale from Dave Van Ronk, who had come up with the updated chord arrangement for a traditional song.

Woody Guthrie with a more traditional version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX_bEDqxHFw
And an alternative trad version from Roscoe Holcombe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vp0UhKozJc

Dave Van Ronk's version (recorded after Dylan's, who pre-empted him): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX2ZYLTGu4E

Dylan's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP_caKDfoyU where the 6/8 time signature is firmly established as also copied by The Animals.

All Price has added is arpeggios.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

All Price has added is arpeggios.

He didn't even do that. Guitarist Hilton Valentine came up with the arpeggio arrangement. All Price added was his keyboard part.

[Famous Mortimer]

Alan Price must surely be at the top table for this thread.

He arranges 'House of the Rising Sun', gets sole credit on the record, it goes to number one in the UK and US ... he leaves the Animals and refuses to split the royalties with them. He's still doing so, despite Eric Burdon pleading with him to reconsider.

Without the others, he'd probably have remained a jobbing musician, playing the pubs around Durham. Yes I know he already had his own group and yes the band imploded after he left. But it doesn't excuse his behaviour.

The rest of the band should have paid more attention at the time. I do get a bit bored of these stories, like Tina Weymouth and Chris Frantz being repeatedly surprised at the mercenary behaviour of David Byrne when it came to credits, yet remaining in a band with him for the best part of 20 years. Either admit you're lying about how much you wrote, or sue the fucker. Stop expecting us to give a shit when you're retired and writing your memoirs.

[NoSleep]

This stuff needs dealing with as it happens. When I was involved in a recording session at Thames TV (as a muso for once), they actually had somebody whose job was taking notes of what occurred and what was said as it happened (like we were in court). Never seen that anywhere else but I can only imagine what had previously occurred to warrant such attention (likely the same old story).

[phantom_power]

The rest of the band should have paid more attention at the time. I do get a bit bored of these stories, like Tina Weymouth and Chris Frantz being repeatedly surprised at the mercenary behaviour of David Byrne when it came to credits, yet remaining in a band with him for the best part of 20 years. Either admit you're lying about how much you wrote, or sue the fucker. Stop expecting us to give a shit when you're retired and writing your memoirs.

Also their careers outside the band seem to suggest, to me at least, that they were a perfectly good, great even, backbone on which to hang Byrne's ideas. I like some Tom Tom Club stuff but it is fairly basic when compared to Byrne's solo work and most of Talking Heads. You could make the argument that Eno had more influence on the direction and sound of the band than Weymouth/Frantz. Them sticking with him despite his "mercenary behaviour" also suggests they knew when they were onto a good thing.

That is not to say that they weren't a big part of the band

[NoSleep]

Them sticking with him despite his "mercenary behaviour" also suggests they knew when they were onto a good thing.

Kinda makes them sound like they're just tagging along instead of being invested in a collective effort that was bearing fruit. Shit needs to be dealt with when it happens. Firmly putting someone in their place the first time they try some shit on can usually set a better precedent.

[Ant Farm Keyboard]

For "House of the Rising Sun", it was their manager who made the call. He liked Price more than the others, so he claimed there wasn't enough room on the registration form to put all five names.
But, of course, that doesn't excuse Price refusing to split the royalties afterwards. But he didn't actually leave the band on his own. The situation caused by "Rising Sun" resulted in a lot of tensions within the band (while he had promisingly started to team with Eric Burdon to write original material), and they didn't want him around.
A similar thing happened with the Byrds, but without outside interference. With the first advance check from the label, they all bought Porsches. Except Gene Clark, who had written the B-side to "Mr. Tambourine Man" and the next single. He bought himself a Ferrari. The others became envious of him.

[DrGreggles]

My old band ensured sure such money-motivated quarrels were avoided by only making bad songs.

[PeterCornelius]

For "House of the Rising Sun", it was their manager who made the call. He liked Price more than the others, so he claimed there wasn't enough room on the registration form to put all five names.
But, of course, that doesn't excuse Price refusing to split the royalties afterwards. But he didn't actually leave the band on his own. The situation caused by "Rising Sun" resulted in a lot of tensions within the band (while he had promisingly started to team with Eric Burdon to write original material), and they didn't want him around.
A similar thing happened with the Byrds, but without outside interference. With the first advance check from the label, they all bought Porsches. Except Gene Clark, who had written the B-side to "Mr. Tambourine Man" and the next single. He bought himself a Ferrari. The others became envious of him.

I didn't know that their manager had done that.

David Crosby is my nominee for this thread. Gene Clark was a fantastic songwriter and he wrote many of the Byrds best songs. He was being badly treated by Crosby from the beginning out of jealousy - Clark was easily the best looking and to spite him Crosby insisted on taking the rhythm guitar spot, forcing Gene to go on to tambourine. If you watch the documentary about Gene's life, Crosby looks extremely uncomfortable during his interview segments.

[Ant Farm Keyboard]

I didn't know that their manager had done that.

David Crosby is my nominee for this thread. Gene Clark was a fantastic songwriter and he wrote many of the Byrds best songs. He was being badly treated by Crosby from the beginning out of jealousy - Clark was easily the best looking and to spite him Crosby insisted on taking the rhythm guitar spot, forcing Gene to go on to tambourine. If you watch the documentary about Gene's life, Crosby looks extremely uncomfortable during his interview segments.

The rest of the Animals assumed it was just a technicality until they saw a registration form where there was clearly room for more than one name. Either the manager had a hunch it would be a mega-hit and wanted to favour Price, or he was just lazy and gave up writing names in alphabetical orders after the first one (Alan Price).

Crosby has always been a huge asshole. He feels a lot of entitlement, as he's minor Hollywood royalty (his father was a much in demand cinematographer). Regarding Clark, the other Byrds also played a part. They resented him, but they needed him, as he was by far their most prolific songwriter. He tended to write a great new song after each breakup, so any time he had a girlfriend, they were eager for them to split. Clark wrote most of "Eight Miles High", but as Clark had left after it was recorded, with every release (single, album, reissue), they'd push his name back behind McGuinn's and Crosby's.

Crosby caused the Byrds to be semi edited out of the Monterey Pop Festival film because he took the mic during their set to rant about a conspiracy behind JFK assassination. Then, he subbed for an angry Neil Young during the Buffalo Springfield set, contributing to their collapse too.

Remember that this is the guy who got depicted on the Notorious Byrd Brothers cover as a horse. When McGuinn was asked if it was intentional, he claimed that, if it had been, it wouldn't the head of the horse that would be on the front.

There's been a documentary produced by Cameron Crowe that tries to depict him as a semi-tragic figure, a guy who's his own worst enemy, but even then there's a lot of assholery involved. This is a guy who even managed to eventually disgust Nash, which is no small feat.

Anyway a rare picture of a clean shaved Crosby, at the time he was released from jail. Yeah, that somehow lessens the mystique around him.

[SpiderChrist]

I heard that Clark had a panic attack before a flight and Crosby's empathetic response was "you can't be a Byrd if you can't fly" thereby cementing his reputation as a) a cunt and b) someone who has never heard of the ostrich. Or penguins.

Btw a friend recommended his "If Only I Could Remember My Name" album to me as "enjoyably bonkers" so I listened to it and now I have another reason to dislike Crosby.

[Dusty Substance]

Haven't been through all the pages of this thread but has anyone mentioned David Byrne? The more I hear about him, the more of a cunt he seems.

Never been the biggest fan of Talking Heads, but listening to Scott Aukerman reading parts of Chris Farts' book on Are You Talkin' Talking Heads 2 My Talking Head? podcast, and how Byrne and Eno would keep deleting the drums and bass tracks laid down by Chris and Tina, it became very clear what an arrogant, control freak cunt Byrne is.

I also have a memory of Adam Buxton talking about how rude Byrne was when they met at a Radiohead recording session.

Don't think I've ever seen a photo of Byrne where he doesn't look like a smug punchable cunt tbh.

Mind you, his first band was called The Artistics, so it's to be expected that he's a cunt.

[cosmic-hearse]

The lyrics to No Compassion by Talking Heads do suggest cuntiness on Byrne's part

[Mr Banlon]

[/quote]

He looks like Frank Cullotta there. Proper 70s mafia looking

[Pauline Walnuts]

Ian Curtis looks unimpressed though.

[popcorn]

Chris Frantz's recent autiobiography is full of stories of Byrne being a prick, but imo it's so badly written and smugly told that it makes a far more compelling case for Frantz being a cunt, not Byrne.

listening to Scott Aukerman reading parts of Chris Farts' book on Are You Talkin' Talking Heads 2 My Talking Head? podcast, and how Byrne and Eno would keep deleting the drums and bass tracks laid down by Chris and Tina, it became very clear what an arrogant, control freak cunt Byrne is.

The fact that those albums came out so great makes me suspect that those were the right decisions...

Lots of speculation on this subject in this thread: https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=81644.0

I also have a memory of Adam Buxton talking about how rude Byrne was when they met at a Radiohead recording session.

I think he's told that story two or three times. It was when Adam was directing the music video for Jigsaw Falling Into Place, with the bike helmets with cameras on them (which incidentally Buckles is auctioning for charity next week). I don't remember Adam saying Byrne was rude, only that he didn't understand the video premise, like "And so you're gonna edit out the bike helmets afterwards? No? Huh..." I think Adam found this funny.

[Glebe]

Ian Curtis looks unimpressed though.

Or Kerr Avon.

[jobotic]

The lyrics to No Compassion by Talking Heads do suggest cuntiness on Byrne's part

It's a song lyric, not a letter. What do Steve Albini's lyrics suggest about him?

[popcorn]

He's a bad penny!

[jamiefairlie]

Or Kerr Avon.

Unimpressed by his soon to be dead shipmate Gan.

[chveik]

It's a song lyric, not a letter. What do Steve Albini's lyrics suggest about him?

well he has admitted himself he was a bit of edgy cunt in his youth. he seems to be a good egg these days

[lazyhour]

Topic: Biggest C**Ts in the recording industry

I just remember a waiter thinking his younger wife is his daughter and Pollard throwing a strop and not tipping.

I don't think Bob's going to trouble the Cunt Top Ten.

[Lungpuddle]

I don't think Bob's going to trouble the Cunt Top Ten.

Must admit, I realised that while I was typing but didn't want to feel like I was wasting my time. Then as soon as I hit post I realised I was wasting everyone else's time and, well, um.

[cosmic-hearse]

It's a song lyric, not a letter. What do Steve Albini's lyrics suggest about him?

That Albini was a bit of an edgelord in his youth but has grown out of it?

To be honest, I know little about Byrne nor Talking Heads (always viewed them as a 3rd rate Tom Tom Club side project), but those lyrics always struck me as particularly cruel and vicious Ayn Rand-like drivel. It's a shit tune as well.

[PaulTMA]

Even the unpleasant stuff Chris Frantz has divulged about David Byrne makes you want to take the latter's side.  He is inescapably a fud

[DrGreggles]

Frantz does seem to have a talent for telling a tale which he thinks makes Byrne look shit, but actually reflects badly on himself instead.
Not saying Frantz should be on the 'biggest cunts in music' list, but he'd probably do well on a 'least self-aware musicians' one.

[Psmith]

Has anyone mentioned a Mr Smith of Salford?
Was he a ripping off type of a cunt  or just someone with attitude who couldn't take his ale ?

[Small Potatoes]

Even the unpleasant stuff Chris Frantz has divulged about David Byrne makes you want to take the latter's side.  He is inescapably a fud

I've been reading his autobiography, inspired by this thread and the other one on him, and you're not wrong. Frantz comes across as a massive score-settling, 104-friends-having, "needless to say, I had the last laugh" walloper from the very outset.

[Video Game Fan 2000]

Are there any insights on the, uh, Stansfieldian rumours about Byrne?