Mr Potato Head's Soul (being troubled by the internal logic of films)

[Old Nehamkin]

OK, so we all remember the scene in Toy Story 3 where Mr. Potato Head hilariously attaches his body parts to a tortilla in order to sneak out of a jail cell. This bit:





Yes, we all laughed, but what about the troubling questions the scene raises? Namely, where does Mr. Potato Head's consciousness actually reside? Is there some essential part of Mr. Potato Head that contains his mind/ soul? It's clearly not his potato body, as shown by the image above, and all of his individual body parts seem to be replaceable (we've seen him swapping out his eyes for another pair, for example) so what is it exactly that inbues the various parts with the personality of Don Rickles? If you slowly replaced all of his different parts until none of the originals remained, would he still be the same guy? If you took him apart and spread his individual pieces across the globe, where would his mind be exactly? Where is he processing thoughts- in his hat? It genuinely confuses me to no end.

To continue the Pixar theme, I've not seen Cars 2 but I did notice a bit in the trailer where the main car asks the Larry the Cable Guy car a question and he responds "Is the Popemobile a Catholic?" thus introducing the concept of Catholicism into this fictional world of talking cars, which is really mental when you think about it. Does it follow that the talking cars had their own car version of the reformation followed by centuries of religious warfare, but with cars? What did the cars even look like back in the middle ages? Does the Popemobile have a stance on abortion? To be honest, I could probably go on about the troubling nature of Cars for hours.

So yeah, stuff like this.

[Sam]

Furthermore, why is there a popemobile but no pope? The whole structure of the joke depends on accepting that cars are instead of people. It's only funny if you imagine that the popemobile is a sentient character like the other cars. So what is the etymology of the word popemobile? Presumably there is a 'pope' in that universe but he just kicks his heels around.

The Potato Head case is clearly the attempts of the writers to insert Hobbes's analogy of Theseus's ship into a children's cartoon. Not to mention Buddha's theory of consciousness as supported by the latest neuroscience.

[checkoutgirl]

"Is the Popemobile a Catholic?"

Does a Fiat Panda shit in the woods?

I don't think they are introducing the idea of cars having religions and that. It's just a lame malapropism or something. Maybe the popemobile was blessed with holy water and that, along with having the pope inside it, imbued it with a veneer of catholicism. This allows the lame gag to be done.

As regards the Mr Potato Head consciousness location, I'm baffled. It's a complete puzzler. It's a bit like Trigger's broom in that.... no wait. I'm getting confused. I just don't know.

[Small Man Big Horse]

Have we ever seen inside Mr Potato Head's hat? Maybe he has a small brain in there?

[Old Nehamkin]

I don't think they are introducing the idea of cars having religions and that. It's just a lame malapropism or something. Maybe the popemobile was blessed with holy water and that, along with having the pope inside it, imbued it with a veneer of catholicism. This allows the lame gag to be done.

But human beings don't exist in the Cars universe- it's all just cars (and some animals, and also some car-animals, weirdly). If the word "Catholic" exists in their world it can only be assumed that the history of the Cars cars roughly corresponds to our own and that they do have their own car version of Christianity. Trust me, I've thought about this at length.

[checkoutgirl]

But human beings don't exist in the Cars universe- it's all just cars (and some animals, and also some car-animals, weirdly). If the word "Catholic" exists in their world it can only be assumed that the history of the Cars cars roughly corresponds to our own and that they do have their own car version of christianity. Trust me, I've thought about this at length.

I'm talking out of my arse clearly. I assumed that the pope occasionally got in the popemoblie but I've read that that doesn't happen in the Cars universe so I can't see what makes it the popemobile if it never contains the pope. It's confusing to say the least. I'd really have to watch the films but the Larry Cable Guy fella is a huge turn off for me. They couldn't have had cars in the reformation could they? They weren't even invented yet. This is confusing me more and more. It's like getting deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole. My brain hurts. I have to get off this mental roller coaster.

[Old Nehamkin]

They couldn't have had cars in the reformation could they? They weren't even invented yet. This is confusing me more and more. It's like getting deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole. My brain hurts. I have to get off this mental roller coaster.

Yeah, this is the main problem of the Cars franchise- you have to just accept that, in their world, cars have evolved naturally as a species without being invented by humans, who don't exist, but the designs of the cars are all based on types of cars that exist in our world. Like, in the first Cars there's this old mentor car played by Paul Newman, and you know he's old because he's some 50s car model, but of course the problem is that cars in our world only go back about 100 years, whereas the car civilisation portrayed in the film is so advanced that it must be thousands of years old. The problems with this are clearly endless.

[Hank Venture]

Yeah, the most basic of which would be how a technological species could "evolve". Do they give birth to little scooters that grow up to be cars? Are several stages of evolution of cars? Did they come from carts and diligences?

[checkoutgirl]

The problems with this are clearly endless.

Evidently. I was just ruminating on the possible implications if the cars had steering wheels which would have no earthly purpose if humans don't exist. Are the cars made from organic material? Do they eat and drink? Or are they made from materials that would be considered man made? This would mean they'd require repairs. Is there a Cars government? Do they reproduce? Do they pay tax and have a justice system? Do they interact with other types of vehicle? If so, who is the dominant vehicle if any? The problems are myriad.

[checkoutgirl]

Yeah, the most basic of which would be how a technological species could "evolve". Do they give birth to little scooters that grow up to be cars? Are several stages of evolution of cars? Did they come from carts and diligences?

Where does the sedan chair fit into all this? Do cars have a rivalry with horses? Presumably horses would be jealous of the speed achieved by cars. I'm all over the place here.

[Petey Pate]

At one point in Cars, the hippie Volkswagen van (voiced by George Carlin) says something like "hey it's Hendrix man, respect the classics" while Jimi's version of the Star Spangled Banner plays on the radio.  So not only do the cars have tongues and go out tipping cow-tractors, there's also a parallel Jimi Hendrix in this universe who is a car and somehow plays the guitar.  The mind explodes.

[garbed_attic]

There are two similar moments like the Mr. Potato Head consciousness paradox in two Henry Selick films - Nightmare Before Christmas and Coraline.

In TNBC when Oogie-Boogie is ripped apart at the seams, it is revealed that he is merely a sack-cloth pulled over a writhing collective of wriggling insects. As he spills outwards, his deep voice becomes individualised into the high-pitched voices of the individual bugs (ad infinitum) as he screams "My bugs! My bugs!" BUT WHO DO THESE BUGS BELONG TO??? Most of the bugs get incinerated, but then one escapes, still screaming "My bugs" (plural?!) until it gets squished underfoot by Santa Claws. Now, is Oogie-Boogie literally a "hive mind" with his consciousness split between all of the bugs... but then, how come each individual bug can talk alone? Is he still thinking in the same way when reduced to a single bug or is this final moment the equivalent to the head that keeps on talking after decapitation?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBnCfURGDd0&t=2m20s

In Coraline the titular Coraline faces off against the Other Mother in the strange facsimile world. The Other Mother's diminishing power means that the inhabitants of this Other World begin to diminish, fade and collapse. This is true of the Other Mr. Bobinski. Coraline tells him that he's just "a copy she [the Other Mother] made of the real Mr. B". Then the Other Mr. Bobinski answers, "Not even that any more" and spills out into a cavalcade of rats! Are the rats parasites or collective host?? Is it a bunch of rats all puppeteering an otherwise empty costume, or was there something else there besides? Or did there use to be something else there, which has diminished? Is this creature even conscious at all?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBnCfURGDd0&t=2m20s

[Small Man Big Horse]

I haven't seen Cars, but is it possible that mankind has some evolved in to being these weird sentient cars? Perhaps some terrible genetic virus or bizarre mental scientific accident saw this situation take place? And that the film Cars is a vision of hundreds, perhaps thousands of years in to the future?

I'm guessing not. But it was worth a shot.

[Treguard of Dunshelm]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/spenceralthouse/this-theory-on-pixar-movies-will-blow-your-mind

It's all so simple, really.

[Lyfjaberg]

This is all weird but, as ever, the real world is weirder.

The Libertarian fetish for private property and ownership as the self-worth as an individual has actually become their definition of an individual. An individual cannot be enslaved because they own themselves -- 'self-ownership'.

At what point, exactly, does a conscious individual become the owner of themselves, meaning that no-one else can own them, giving them the opportunity to exercise free will? It's a fucking strange idea.

[DeadBishop]

In Harry Potter Hagrid was half-giant, half-human. Giants are meant to be up to 20 foot tall. JK Rowling probably considered the implied logistics of this because she made his dad the human, which implies a somewhat less violent conception. As a tween I could never shake the ungodly image of Hagrid sr. crawling his way into a cavernous mimsy and beating one off. [nb]A visual that is slightly echoed in my avatar.[/nb]

[Tiny Poster]

[Beech]

Here's a Pixar Studio Story short that explains the issue of the Cars having no hands. Confirming their brains are just beyond the doors... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOaMkJHBUBg

[Chichester Cathedral]

How do they drill for oil?

Fuck me.

[Brundle-Fly]

Excellent.

More looking at the insides of cartoon characters fun! (also Google image 'skeletons of cartoon characters'.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/robinedds/skeletons-of-your-favourite-cartoon-characters-will-ruin-you

[Replies From View]

Older viewers will remember a "Mr Potato Head's Soul" dilemma in Terminator 2's T-1000.

There's a bit in that film where the T-1000 loses a bit of his arm in a car, which is then chucked onto the road where it becomes liquid; the T-1000 then walks up to it and absorbs it into his foot.  I've always wondered how many bits of himself the T-1000 could lose and still be a convincing Robert Patrick.  Presumably it wouldn't be efficient for the T-1000 to not regrow its lost limbs, but then over a period of time by losing more and more of its mass it would become a smaller and smaller Robert Patrick.  It would probably take a few goes but surely after a while people would notice that he was no longer the same scale?  You might say it would simply take the identity of a smaller person, but the T-1000 only ever took the form of a person or object with which it had already come into physical contact, and you can't assume it'll have done this before losing its limbs.  And it always defaulted to the form of Robert Patrick anyway, presumably because it saved energy to do so.

And like Mr Potato Head what would happen if you separated the T-1000 into two portions and kept these in separate containers?  Would the portions remain liquid and slosh angrily yet impotently around for all eternity?  Surely Schwarzenegger and the Connors would have done this in the film then?  I can only assume that the two portions of T-1000 would have formed into micro-Robert Patricks that would have then sought one another out for the bulk of the film, then joyously smashed into one another like Station in Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey.

Yes.

[Thomas]

To further the initial problem, the tortilla is ripped into pieces and a segment featuring one of Mr Potato Head's arms (and eyes) alerts the other.

I've always handwaved[nb]and probably thought too much about[/nb] the issue of his 'soul' by supposing that it's some abstract consciousness strung between all of his detachable features,[nb]Mrs Potato Head, of course, being able to look through a detached eye when it's isolated, miles away.[/nb] always forming one holistic identity - but then why does he appear to split into two distinct identities, interacting with each other, at this point? Or is he just doing a bit of a joke for his own amusement?

[Bored of Canada]

Why does George McFly hire someone who tried to violently rape his wife as a servant to the family. Surely the last place you'd want such a person is around the very person he tried to sexually assault?

Does time heal all wounds, no matter how horrific? Or is it a statement on human Pettiness, that George would ignore the dangers of Biff in order to hammer home the shift in their power dynamic, as some kind of passive-aggressive revenge?

[Replies From View]

Why does George McFly hire someone who tried to violently rape his wife as a servant to the family. Surely the last place you'd want such a person is around the very person he tried to sexually assault?

Does time heal all wounds, no matter how horrific? Or is it a statement on human Pettiness, that George would ignore the dangers of Biff in order to hammer home the shift in their power dynamic, as some kind of passive-aggressive revenge?

At the end of the first film, it seems like Biff has been employed as George McFly's "bitch", because he's fetching books as well as waxing his car.

In the second film (I think) there's some indication that he's actually part of an Automobile Dealership so despite his oddness with the books he's really only supposed to be doing something car-related for George McFly.

I can't remember, to be honest.  But it's very odd anyway.

[Thomas]

Marty's time-muddling completely rewrote American society and its values.

In 1985 II, it was acceptable to employ the domestic services of attempted wife sexual assaultists. Encouraged, in fact.

[I.D. Smith]

So if Mr Potato Head stabbed someone else with, let's say, his arm, would he now possess - as in taken over the mind - the person he stabbed?

Edit - Reason I mention this is because it seems that with all his parts in a Tortilla, the Tortilla is now part of his body. But what would happen if you stuck those parts in a sentient being.

[Bored of Canada]

Marty's time-muddling completely rewrote American society and its values.

In 1985 II, it was acceptable to employ the domestic services of attempted wife sexual assaultists. Encouraged, in fact.

But Marty himself retains the same values of 1985 I, and he doesn't really make a big deal about it. If I'm going to accept this idea that Rape is a beloved staple of 1985 II culture like you suggest, Marty doesn't immediately inherit that belief and shouldn't let that go.

[Thomas]

So if Mr Potato Head stabbed someone else with, let's say, his arm, would he now possess - as in taken over the mind - the person he stabbed?

I don't think the vessel, as it were, for his detachable features possesses any element of consciousness. The plastic potato body, the tortilla - they're just platforms.

Let us not forget that the original Mr Potato Head was just a bundle of detachable features, plugged by children into actual potatoes. This informs my theory as to his identity.

But, then, I read now, there was a point where Mr Potato Head bits were supplied in cereal boxes, presumably to be collected. Would this entail the geographical splitting up of millions of individual Potato Head consciousnesses? Horrible idea. One eye in Texas, the other in Manhattan, an arm in Chicago, a foot in a gutter somewhere.

But Marty himself retains the same values of 1985 I, and he doesn't really make a big deal about it. If I'm going to accept this idea that Rape is a beloved staple of 1985 II culture like you suggest, Marty doesn't immediately inherit that belief and shouldn't let that go.

You're quite right. But, offscreen, somebody calls Marty 'chicken' for challenging the rewritten value system, and so he immediately accepts it.

[I.D. Smith]

I don't think the vessel, as it were, for his detachable features possesses any element of consciousness. The plastic potato body, the tortilla - they're just platforms.

Let us not forget that the original Mr Potato Head was just a bundle of detachable features, plugged by children into actual potatoes. This informs my theory as to his identity.

But, then, I read now, there was a point where Mr Potato Head bits were supplied in cereal boxes, presumably to be collected. Would this entail the geographical splitting up of millions of individual Potato Head consciousnesses? Horrible idea. One eye in Texas, the other in Manhattan, an arm in Chicago, a foot in a gutter somewhere.

Ah, right. So although his bits and pieces are stuck in a Tortilla, it's only his bits and pieces that can move. Like, he can't wiggle a corner of the Tortilla itself?

[Thomas]

That's my take on it. It would have been agonising when that pigeon tore the tortilla up, if not.