Oldboy: The Bastardisation

[WesterlyWinds]

Sorry, I meant remake.

Will it be shit? Will you actually go and see it? Discuss all things American Oldboy here.

I've not actually heard anything about it, beyond a brief glimpse at the advert on the Underground, so any information is welcome. I'll probably go and see it out of some kind of morbid fascination, but I can't imagine it will be anywhere near as good. What is the American equivalent of biting into a still living squid?

[BlodwynPig]

Biting into a week old big mac and jelly.

[BlodwynPig]

Bucks Journos have the answer

http://www.thametoday.co.uk/news/matt-adcock-s-film-review-sorry-oldboy-this-rotten-remake-should-have-been-spiked-1-5736573

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Don't you think it's karma for their refusal to even acknowledge nearly all world cinema, and even more widely, non-North American culture? And on top of that, karma for not accepting enough original screenplays...

Yeah you won't have to read subtitles, but I'm afraid you will be watching a load of shit.

[Bored of Canada]

I was kind of interested, because I thought despite the cult status, Old Boy isn't that great a film. Everything in the apartment is great. The corridor fight scene is fantastic, and I like the revealation at the end. But that's not honestly the minority of the film. The rest of the stuff is just incredibly, I don't know, convoluted and dull?

I remember just being incredibly bored and disappointed during the majority of the film. Everyone always talks at length about those three things, but does about 20 minutes make up for the other 100 minutes of tedium, and just poor and confusing filmmaking? They're a brilliant 20 minutes, that's for fucking sure. But still, I wouldn't call it a brilliant film. It adds a lot when you sort of discover it by accident and it feels like it's your film. But still, I still find the film disappointing. It starts so well, and the majority just can't keep to that level of quality.

I was thinking that it could be a good opportunity to fix a lot of the flaws of the film, despite it never being able to best the other stuff. From the reviews, seems like it's alright, not great, but it doesn't duck too far from the original so if you've seen the original and you're a vocal fan, you've probably already made up your mind negatively about this film to be honest.

Despite a lot of the backlash towards Spike Lee, I do still really like him, despite also kind of getting tired of a lot of his criticising of others. From what I saw of interviews and stuff, he just seemed entirely passionless about this one, which put me right off. If it's a film he wanted to make, I'd be up for it, but I really don't get that vibe. Seems like him just doing a big studio one for his next project, and hey, fair play to him, but I can't be arsed seeing something that's a cash-in.

[WesterlyWinds]

Don't you think it's karma for their refusal to even acknowledge nearly all world cinema, and even more widely, non-North American culture? And on top of that, karma for not accepting enough original screenplays...

Yeah you won't have to read subtitles, but I'm afraid you will be watching a load of shit.

A discussion for another thread perhaps, but anyone who complains about having to read subtitles should be punched in their respective genitalia[nb]Excluding the blind, I'll let them off. Or at least allow special showings where you can stroke the screen or something. Does that exist yet?[/nb]. Yes that's right, Mum, you too.

I was kind of interested, because I thought despite the cult status, Old Boy isn't that great a film. Everything in the apartment is great. The corridor fight scene is fantastic, and I like the revealation at the end. But that's not honestly the minority of the film. The rest of the stuff is just incredibly, I don't know, convoluted and dull?

I remember just being incredibly bored and disappointed during the majority of the film. Everyone always talks at length about those three things, but does about 20 minutes make up for 100 minutes of tedium, and just poor and confusing filmmaking?

I was thinking that it could be a good opportunity to fix a lot of the flaws of the film, despite it never being able to best the other stuff. From the reviews, seems like it's alright, not great, but it doesn't duck too far from the original so if you've seen the original and you're a vocal fan, you've probably already made up your mind negatively about this film to be honest.

Despite a lot of the backlash towards Spike Lee, I do still really like him, despite also kind of getting tired of a lot of his criticising of others. From what I saw of interviews and stuff, he just seemed entirely passionless about this one, which put me right off. If it's a film he wanted to make, I'd be up for it, but I really don't get that vibe. Seems like him just doing a big studio one for his next project, and hey, fair play to him, but I can't be arsed seeing something that's a cash-in.

Actually, I might have to agree with you about it being a little bit overrated. I didn't find it boring but upon the second watch without the 'revelation'[nb]

Spoiler alert

I actually shouted (being one of those cunts who says stuff during films at home) that the woman in the sushi bar was blatantly his daughter without really believing myself

[close]

[/nb] it was much less of an enjoyable experience. And it also left me feeling a little cold at the end in terms of:

Spoiler alert

what is the film actually saying? It's better to fuck your daughter/dad and not know about it than be unhappy?

[close]

[Glebe]

http://www.cinemablend.com/m/reviews/Oldboy-6657.html

The potential was there to do something different, alas it doesn't sound like Lee has.

[phantom_power]

Don't you think it's karma for their refusal to even acknowledge nearly all world cinema, and even more widely, non-North American culture? And on top of that, karma for not accepting enough original screenplays...

Yeah you won't have to read subtitles, but I'm afraid you will be watching a load of shit.

Aren't they just serving a market though? If a lot of people don't want to read subtitles you can't blame it on the film-makers and you can't blame them for wanting to remake those films for a wider market. You can blame them for the results being usually dull and lifeless though. You can have that one

[Paaaaul]

If you're even contemplating watching this remake, and you haven't seen Sympathy For Mr Vengeance, see that instead.  It's brutal, bleak and funny in ways that even the original Oldboy struggles to match. I love Park Chan-Wook, but he's not made anything that comes close to the brilliance of SFMV since.

[Funcrusher]

If you're even contemplating watching this remake, and you haven't seen Sympathy For Mr Vengeance, see that instead.  It's brutal, bleak and funny in ways that even the original Oldboy struggles to match. I love Park Chan-Wook, but he's not made anything that comes close to the brilliance of SFMV since.

The problem I have with Park Chan-Wook, including SFMV, is that I find the films really engaging for the first half/two thirds, then the whole thing descends into grand guinol ultraviolence and I lose interest. The first half of SFMV was brilliant, then it's all just gory violence and the whole tone that I liked is  lost. 'Stoker' was incredibly frustrating to me in that it's very restrained by his standards and builds up a real sense of unease, then tips into gruesome standard serial killer goriness in the final act. I think I'm just destined not be a fan - I would guess that for a lot of people the gory stuff is the whole point.

[Don_Preston]

I was kind of interested, because I thought despite the cult status, Old Boy isn't that great a film. Everything in the apartment is great. The corridor fight scene is fantastic, and I like the revealation at the end. But that's not honestly the minority of the film. The rest of the stuff is just incredibly, I don't know, convoluted and dull?

I remember just being incredibly bored and disappointed during the majority of the film.

Thank you for summarising exactly what I thought about the film.

[Glebe]

If you're even contemplating watching this remake, and you haven't seen Sympathy For Mr Vengeance, see that instead.  It's brutal, bleak and funny in ways that even the original Oldboy struggles to match. I love Park Chan-Wook, but he's not made anything that comes close to the brilliance of SFMV since.

Yeah, that's my favourite out the three 'Vengeance' trilogy films (even though they're only vaguely 'connected' thematically and are not really a trilogy), it's a surprisingly emotive film. I have to say I do have a fondness for Oldboy, some incredible scenes and the theme music is beautiful. I haven't watched it in ages though as I recall it kind of rambles a bit in the middle with the mystery-solving and stuff, but I still think it's a great movie. Actually, I picked up the Play.com Blu-ray steelbook on eBay a while ago and haven't given that a spin yet, it's due a rewatch (actually a remstered 10th anniversary edition was released recently, natch). Lady Vegeance is also pretty striking, but I just found something lacking in it, although I look forward to giving that another look too at some stage.

[Nobody Soup]

this could have been fun if they'd cast nicholas cage and just let him run riot.

[El Unicornio, mang]

There is also this going on

http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/18027/1/did-spike-lee-rip-off-juan-luis-garcia

Bit weird that the guy has now removed his "dear spike lee" page though (unless he was maybe threatened with legal action if he didn't)

I'm not a big fan of Spike Lee though. He's made a few decent films but comes across as quite an odious individual at times.

[Tiny Poster]

I saw Do The Right Thing for the first time last week and loved it, so should I check this out?

[NoSleep]

Don't you think it's karma for their refusal to even acknowledge nearly all world cinema, and even more widely, non-North American culture? And on top of that, karma for not accepting enough original screenplays...

Yeah you won't have to read subtitles, but I'm afraid you will be watching a load of shit.

Which is probably more down to the tremendously condescending attitude of the makers of these films towards their potential audiences; "But people won't understand!" Well, fuck those people, then.

[Hank_Kingsley]

I've seen a fair few Spike Lee films and I don't think I enjoyed any of them. He's just not very good. I really liked the idea of Spike Lee so I kept watching his joints (films) but y'know it's going to be a bag of shite.

Worst one'd be Bamboozled or Clockers. Clockers was some tedious shit. Dude doesn't even make New York interesting, which is a crime.

[Funcrusher]

Clockers was some tedious shit. Dude doesn't even make New York interesting, which is a crime.

Clockers was such a huge missed opportunity of a film. The book is brilliant (although it is about 20 years since I read it) and a big influence on/precursor to The Wire. But Spike Lee just has no interest in the white cop, who is half the story and just becomes a bit of a cypher. Scorcese had passed it on because he couldn't make anything of the black kids side of the story. I guess David Simon could have done it right.

[BritishHobo]

There is also this going on

http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/18027/1/did-spike-lee-rip-off-juan-luis-garcia

Bit weird that the guy has now removed his "dear spike lee" page though (unless he was maybe threatened with legal action if he didn't)

I'm not a big fan of Spike Lee though. He's made a few decent films but comes across as quite an odious individual at times.

It really frustrates me that it's been turned into Spike Lee ripping off some poor freelancer when what it really comes down to, whatever the situation, is what happened between the artist and the marketing department. Especially over on Reddit, where they're furiously incensed that he has some strong opinions on race.

[Retinend]

I've seen a fair few Spike Lee films and I don't think I enjoyed any of them. He's just not very good. I really liked the idea of Spike Lee so I kept watching his joints (films) but y'know it's going to be a bag of shite.

Worst one'd be Bamboozled or Clockers. Clockers was some tedious shit. Dude doesn't even make New York interesting, which is a crime.

Mo Better Blues is great
Jungle Fever is great
Bamboozled is great
Do The Right Thing and Malcolm X of course are great too

For someone who's so known for being outspoken I think his best films are all heartwarming accounts of quite ordinary problems that aren't (primarily) about issues at all, but about living together and making choices given to you. I think of him as the american Mike Leigh, and not just because it rhymes.

[Retinend]

It really frustrates me that it's been turned into Spike Lee ripping off some poor freelancer when what it really comes down to, whatever the situation, is what happened between the artist and the marketing department. Especially over on Reddit, where they're furiously incensed that he has some strong opinions on race.

Yeah. Lee correctly just dismissed the whole thing (so directed personally to him) as a ploy to get publicity. But Lee could only piss Reddit off more if he was remaking The Room. I like Oldboy a lot but it's not such a classic that it's a sacrilege to remake it in another language. In fact, are there any such films from other language cultures? I don't see why we have to pretend as if world cinema is accessible to everyone, subtitled or dubbed. It isn't. There will be plenty of people (not film critics) who will be blown away by a highly original plot that they would have otherwise never seen. What's to protect?

[Moribunderast]

I don't see why we have to pretend as if world cinema is accessible to everyone, subtitled or dubbed. It isn't. There will be plenty of people (not film critics) who will be blown away by a highly original plot that they would have otherwise never seen. What's to protect?

I think there's certainly films that are tied into their setting and culture to the point where an American remake completely misses the point. The idea of a US-version of Akira, for starters. What are they going to do? Base it thematically on 9/11? I can't imagine the themes of the original tying into a US setting in anything other than a hamfisted manner.

From S. Korea, a film like Memories of Murder couldn't be done in a US setting, or it would have to be set about fifty years earlier. Films like Wolf Creek and Snowtown (regardless of it's true story basis) wouldn't work so well without the Australian drawl. Just like Winter's Bone wouldn't really work as a British film.

I don't have a blanket hate of remakes, I just watched True Grit and Let Me In and thought they were both pretty decent (though Let Me In was undoubtedly not as good as Let The Right One In) but I do think there are certain stories that can't be told the Hollywood way. Whether Oldboy is one, I'm not sure, but it sounds like they've ballsed it up.

[NoSleep]

A Fistful Of Dollars wasn't too bad a remake.

[Johnny Townmouse]

*SPOILERS*

We can stop with the spoiler cover-ups after a film is released can't we?

I watched this yesterday and I guess I quite liked it. There are so many reasons for me to have hated it, but despite it all I found myself watching it with a certain amount of pleasure - mainly in its inability to extricate itself from the film it is so heavily indebted to. I can't stand Spike Lee, I find him to be a dick most of the time and his films are pretty appalling. Josh Brolin is a blank space, although he does a decent turn in No Country, and the appearance of Samuel L Jackson in a film usually makes me sigh with dissatisfaction. When you add onto this the fact that the film chooses not to do the only thing I really like in the original Oldboy (the ironic happy ending of the characters living the rest of their lives in an unknown incestuous relationship) it really should have failed. Maybe it is because I consider Oldboy so flawed, and certainly the weakest of Park's revenge trilogy, that I was somehow able to enjoy Lee's version so much.

Firstly, I liked the set-up to Brolin's character being kidnapped, although the Asian/Korean imagery really just reminds you that this is reconstituted. Then the prison scenes work well - they somehow feel more unpleasant than the original, particularly the smiling face poster, and the mice. I thought the violence was well judged, and for me I just thought the pacing was better.

Don't get me wrong - this is flawed. The woman playing the daughter character is an atrocious actor, the guy playing the Stranger is hammy to the point of ridiculousness (also the reason I didn't like District 9), and it retains many of the set-pieces that make the original so irritating. Also, the presence of HBO alumni is a bit distracting. Oh yeah, the use of flashback that makes the original so shite is ramped up the poo scale even more.

Entertaining anomaly of a film. File with the Bad Lieutenant and Solaris remakes. 

[Mark Steels Stockbroker]

I have to watch subtitles on Hollywood films anyway, as I can't always follow what American actors are saying.

[Bored of Canada]

I have to watch subtitles on Hollywood films anyway, as I can't always follow what American actors are saying.

I finally watched True Grit the other day. Sort of put it off, as I was all set to see it in the cinema, and due to some circumstances, I didn't, and just kind of felt nothing but apathy towards it until I FINALLY GOT OFF MY ARSE AND WATCHED IT. And I'm really good with understanding accents, and as I was watching this film, and appreciating Jeff Bridge's performance, I just felt this immense shame because I was lost with his dialogue.

Here's Jeff Bridges, deep in the role of this character, and I want to appreciate it, but I can't understand half the fucking things he's saying, and my sound-systems really shit so if I turn it up too loud, it buzzes. I know his character's a drunk and it's part of the joke that he's slurring his words and such, but it got in the way of my experience. So I watch the whole film, desperately wanting to turn on subtitles but too stubborn to do so, as I'd just be reading the script, as opposed to watching this guy act as a character. I got most of it, but a lot of the time, it was me just quickly trying to translate the sentences on the fly, and not paying attention to what they're saying. It was like all those stressful French exams.

I'm ashamed to say I was the same with The Wind That Shakes the Barley. I'm so good with accents generally! I swear! But the DVD didn't even have subtitles! I could only understand 10% of everything said. I got excited whenever a brutalising English character popped up to savagely assault an Irishmen, because I could understand what they were saying. I've never struggled with an Irish accent in my life, except for that film.

This probably sounds really uninteresting, but for me, this is actually a huge shame of mine. I had to share it here, as CaB is a safe environment.

[El Unicornio, mang]

I'm usually good with accents, but Scottish films (especially Glasgow) can be bewildering.