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The time the place

Started by The Giggling Bean, December 31, 2013, 01:49:37 PM

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The Giggling Bean

How did this come about, was it supposed to be an inclusion in Brass Eye or was Morris just bored and having a bit of fun? It's always amused me when he gets rumbled and I wonder what happened after the show finished.....did he make a quick getaway or was he held back to apologise/explain.

Anyone know the details

Thomas

This from a Cook'd and Wiki'd FAQ -

QuoteWhat's this about Chris Morris appearing on an edition of "The Time The Place"?
While working on "Brass Eye", he infiltrated a June 1996 edition of the ITV discussion show in the guise of academic Thurston Lowe. However, he was soon recognised by presenter John Stapleton, and was ignored for the remainder of the broadcast. It has to be pointed out that the full show is incredibly boring and banal, and that Morris' furious padding after his identity is revealed is quite embarrassing to witness.

I agree that the backpedaling is a bit awkward to watch, but his last-ditch claim that he changed the colour of his hair is still my favourite bit.

Thomas

I think, as has been noted before, the guy to Morris' left seems to recognise him -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ecxW3KPUD4

One commenter theorises that it's Mark Heap, but nah. Dunnae think so.

Glebe

Must have been a bit awkward for him sitting there after his covers blown, but he's certainly willingly put himself in more embarrassing situations (this is the man who walked around the street in a nappie asking for drugs, after all). At least he gave the audience a giggle. Nope, that ain't Mark Heap beside him, but he does kinda resemble him. Looking at it again, I kept thinking of the prison inmates bit in the Crime episode of Brass Eye. "I'll root...root you out!"

Ambient Sheep

Contrary to the wiki, I'm sure I read somewhere (here, probably) that John Stapleton had no idea who Morris was, but the gallery rumbled him and told Stapleton through his earpiece.  Dunno how true that is though, better people than I wrote that wiki, no doubt.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

That's how it's presented and there's certainly no reason to think otherwise.

I think Morris coped with the rumbling reasonably well and did some nice faux-pompous adlibbing.

The best aspect of it is how utterly confused and perplexed the audience are- completely blindsided by his bizarre contribution to the show, and then suddenly this drama about who he is and what he's doing- the oddness that someone would go undercover on a show as a historian. It makes for great TV, and it should happen far more often than it does (never), and it's amazing that it even happened at all.

The audience shows just how utterly commanding and authoritative Morris is, he establishes an atmosphere of confusion through his surrealism and steamrollers through it with gusto.


up_the_hampipe

Quote from: Thomas on December 31, 2013, 01:52:01 PM
This from a Cook'd and Wiki'd FAQ -

Forgive me for being stupid but what does "furious padding" mean?

Sexton Brackets Drugbust

Quote from: up_the_hampipe on January 02, 2014, 06:50:06 PM
Forgive me for being stupid but what does "furious padding" mean?

His heat of the moment improvising of excuses. Basically, waffle.

Artemis

I didn't think his backpeddling was particularly awkward at all, and I quite enjoyed it. I've always seen the sequence as an extended version of what would probably have been a tiny segment on Brass Eye or some other project had it worked or been deemed funny enough, it's an interesting watch. The funniest thing is that Stapleton clearly hasn't a clue who Morris is even after he's been told by his producers, and the studio crowd are similarly perplexed and don't know what to believe. I enjoyed the confusion and that even after he'd been outed, Morris just sits there, deliberately confuses Stapleton with Kilroy and if I recall correctly, starts whistling over Stapleton at one point. It's not amazingly funny but it's a nice little bit of oddness in an otherwise horribly tedious show.

Thomas

I wish there was more available footage of Morris in the field, stuff that never made it into Brass Eye.

Perhaps, like an ancient episode of Doctor Who, reel upon reel of it will be discovered behind a bread bin on some Scottish island.

Neil

Quote from: Bored of Canada on December 31, 2013, 01:58:31 PM
I agree that the backpedaling is a bit awkward to watch, but his last-ditch claim that he changed the colour of his hair is still my favourite bit.

Funny as a non-sequitur, but you may be missing a cultural reference here. Kilroy (as seen in jam ep 1) did the same type of show around then on the Beeb, the silver-haired racist.


I've never seen the full show, or it'd be up on YouTube, but I agree that he handled his eventual outing by the gallery particularly well, and think it was an obvious attempt at Brass Eye material. If you wonder why more of such isnt available, then cf the jam DVD "undeleted extras" for CM's response to such. (no time to paste it at the mo, will in a bit.)

Neil

Here it is:



Over the years, I've accepted that it's probably a direct satire of the mouthy, ridiculous cunt I was back then, with my site updates.[nb]I/we went fucking NUTS over the Brass Eye DVD. Bear in mind, BE was thought to be utterly unreleasable, for many years. My main impetus for starting this site was to get it available and circulating for people, as Internet video was just making great leaps with RealVideo. Instead of being massively grateful of the eventual DVD release...we went NUTS at what a "missed opportunity" it was. Just total woods for the trees shit. Obsessive fans can be such cunnys.


Having said that, evidently I still think it was a shit job, and one of the greatest missed opportunities in comedy history. It's fucking BRASS EYE! [/nb] Although it still applies to the CM fan community - at that point - too. We were such entitled dicks. But really, we just wanted more, you know? Guy was a fucking magician back then. We all realised just how special he was.

Moribunderast

That's interesting to hear, Neil. I must admit I'd never even considered the lack of extras on the Brass Eye DVD as I hadn't seen the show before purchasing, so my first glimpse of Brass Eye was enough to mesmerise and leave me without wanting for more. Was The Day Today DVD released before or after Brass Eye and Jam DVDs? It seemed to have a lot more extra material, including the various Easter Eggs and whatnot, wich would indicate either a change of mind (The Barley DVD had a fair bit of extra work, as well, with the "art" book and whathaveyou) or maybe that was more Armando's doing?

I'd not seen this The Time The Place footage in years. Still lovely. I don't think Morris' adlibbing at the end is embarrassing - it's just faux-righteous posturing that further confuses matters, innit?

Hangthebuggers

Quote from: Thomas on January 02, 2014, 09:55:31 PM
I wish there was more available footage of Morris in the field, stuff that never made it into Brass Eye.

Perhaps, like an ancient episode of Doctor Who, reel upon reel of it will be discovered behind a bread bin on some Scottish island.

I hope so to. I'd love to see the stuff that didn't quite make it. Although I fear that may spoil the illusion of everything.

However regarding the 'back-pedalling' I still love the way Morris continues to argue about his 'book' and that he needs an alias. And he blames the host for blowing it... 'You swan around, you walk around with your firm face.'

Are you Chris Morris?

No.

Even when rumbled he can still hold his own. The very fact he disrupts the show even when discovered is just lovely.


The Giggling Bean

I've always been disappointed with the Brass Eye DVD. There was certainly a lot more footage which could have been included under extra scenes and maybe even the pilot. I keep hoping for a Dr Who style bells and whistles Brass Eye DVD down the line but it's probably not going to happen.

In terms of the time the place does anyone know what happened to Morris after the show finished? Was he allowed to slip out quietly with the rest of the audience or was he asked to stay behind for a quiet word with the producers etc?

Neil

Quote from: Moribunderast on January 03, 2014, 01:39:11 AM
That's interesting to hear, Neil. I must admit I'd never even considered the lack of extras on the Brass Eye DVD as I hadn't seen the show before purchasing, so my first glimpse of Brass Eye was enough to mesmerise and leave me without wanting for more. Was The Day Today DVD released before or after Brass Eye and Jam DVDs? It seemed to have a lot more extra material, including the various Easter Eggs and whatnot, wich would indicate either a change of mind (The Barley DVD had a fair bit of extra work, as well, with the "art" book and whathaveyou) or maybe that was more Armando's doing?

Although the Amazon release dates seem to contradict this, my memory is that My Wrongs and jam were next, around the same time, with TDT a few years later.  Think that's true.  And yes, subsequent DVDs have all displayed a superb attitude to not only the extras, but the packaging, menus etc.  I thought the Four Lions DVD was brilliant, but it still disappointed some as they want him to have an orthodox attitude to these kind of things (proper commentaries etc), which is... not fitting, really.  I have to stress again that CC and Site Updates were really obnoxious, pompous places at that time - CC was commonly referred to as "The Chuckle Reich" - but a great read.

The jam DVDs have a lot of what can be considered pointless extras, but they do also have a ton of great bits and pieces on there, including rehearsal footage.  I recall that the guy who was compiling the My Wrongs DVD (or at least working on the packaging) was actually sent on here to see if we had any suggestions.  The My Wrongs commentary also frustrated some fans, but I adore absolutely everything about that release, and My Wrongs slowly went from being something I sneered at upon release, to perhaps my favourite ever Morris thing.

Anyway, yes, the Brass Eye DVD still seems like a bit of a missed opportunity, but it's a show that was always thought to be utterly, utterly impossible to clear for a commercial release, so we should just be glad we have it at all, and with minimal edits.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

QuoteI thought the Four Lions DVD was brilliant, but it still disappointed some as they want him to have an orthodox attitude to these kind of things (proper commentaries etc), which is... not fitting, really

There's a decent argument in that case though, as Morris broke cover and did everything else in terms of promotion and interview in a very orthodox way. Perhaps Morris felt it wasn't worth repeating himself.

Neil

I think, above all else, CM is one of the few artists - particularly in the comedy world - who really truly credits his audience with intelligence, and so he's never wanted to have to explain things to them.  There are obviously reasons why he had to set the scene for Four Lions, with only some of those relating to promotion.  If you zip right back to his local radio days, then it's clear you have a man who's simply never been interested in doing things just because it's 'that's the way it is'.  Why should he, when everyone else is already doing that?  Even his radio call-ins/quizzes had an fiercely original slant to them.

So I don't think there is a decent argument for an orthodox commentary, to be honest, particularly when the extras that are on there do explain the need for the film, but without overtly spoon-feeding the audience.  I found the included documentaries to be brilliantly thought-provoking - they made me introspectively examine my own attitudes and responses - and I believe that's ten times more worthwhile than just being given everything on a plate.

I would certainly have listened to the proposed TDT commentary eagerly, mind. 

Artemis

I remember the sense of elation and then disappointment with the Brass Eye DVD release. I was astonished that it was able to be sold legally, having resigned myself to my well-worn VHS tapes being the only source I'd ever have. It just seemed incomprehensible that a show which disobeyed so many conventions and sensibilities would find a place at HMV. I'm not sure if there was much sense in such a reaction, in retrospect. I think it was partly just because I adored the show so much I was surprised that something I loved was available for me to buy when hardly anything else resonated with me at the time.

The DVD itself has always felt a bit cheap, and I've never really bought the argument that by adding more detail, Morris would be 'explaining himself' - there could have been loads added which give an appreciation to the production of the show, for example.

Sexton Brackets Drugbust

Regarding 'missing' Brass Eye footage, it would be intriguing to get a longer look at some of the clips used in the title sequence. There's a fair old bit of Morris in various disguises that's never expanded upon in the series itself.

As mentioned, I am extremely grateful for being able to purchase something that was considered impossible to release for a time.

BlodwynPig

I was just thinking about this yesterday. How many "celebrities" didn't fall for Morris' haut-Beadlisms? There must have been a fair few who didn't buy into Carla, Cake or other, possibly unreleased, ruses.

Anyone know names?

Sexton Brackets Drugbust

Quote from: BlodwynPig on January 03, 2014, 02:35:33 PM
I was just thinking about this yesterday. How many "celebrities" didn't fall for Morris' haut-Beadlisms? There must have been a fair few who didn't buy into Carla, Cake or other, possibly unreleased, ruses.

Anyone know names?

I seem to recall the Claire Rayner 'Cannabliss' segment was created in the edit. Apparently Rayner immediately realised the advert was a hoax.

There's also that anecdote about Morris managing to get ink rings around someone's eyes, then fleeing when they went to check in the mirror.

Spiteface

After the Brass Eye special, Carol Vorderman claimed she had been approached. But she only supports charities & causes that she knows are legit. Some shit like that anyway.

I think Eamonn Holmes was another who claimed this, and saw through the facade of it all.

And of course John McCrirrick claims he had Morris sussed as his interview bits went on.

Neil

Russell Grant was someone who immediately saw through it all, which is amusing to CM given that Eve Pollard was immediately taken in with the exact same footage.

Can't remember the right-wing politician who ended up getting surreptitiously blacked up during their interview, but yeah, that was abandoned as everyone was fucking pissing themselves.

Edit: it was Nigel Evans - bear in mind this Raise article was 'in the style of CM' and you're not meant to believe it all http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?page=cabkbarticle&id=175

Melth

I think Alexei Sayle has mentioned that he'd received a letter that invited him to help Karla the Elephant, but knew that it was a hoax from the start.

Artemis

Sometimes the moment they twig that the joke's on them was used in the show to brilliant effect. The most obvious example is Peter Tatchell, whose expression and tone after Morris finishes a lengthy libellous and probably quite unpleasant tirade against Conservative cabinet members he suspects are homosexual, is just wonderful. The expert timing between him 'getting it' and the cut into the graphics that follow it was sublime as well. I should re-watch this show, it's fucking brilliant.

TJ

When I wrote the episode guide I hadn't seen TTTP since it went out (the overnight repeat - word got around very quickly), so that's where the Stapleton mistake came from, but I stand by my comments about him being rumbled and particularly the attempts to butt in again for the remainder of the show. That really does make me wince, though maybe it comes across differently if you're seeing it  retrospectively rather than in the heat of the moment, I dunno.

At the time Brass Eye went out, Baynham mentioned somewhere that one of the interviewees had been shown a clip of him posing as a character, and immediately remarked "that's the man from The Friday Night Armistice" and left. I'd love to know who that was.

I'd kind of side with Neil these days over the DVDs, apart from TDT. Even if he didn't want to do a commentary himself, why talk the others out of doing one in favour of some weak new material? Nobody wins there.

Sexton Brackets Drugbust

Quote from: TJ on January 03, 2014, 08:37:09 PM
I'd kind of side with Neil these days over the DVDs, apart from TDT. Even if he didn't want to do a commentary himself, why talk the others out of doing one in favour of some weak new material? Nobody wins there.

Ah, is that what happened there? I remember reading the Armando Iannucci interview where he mentioned something along the lines of organising an in character commentary track, but then when the finished DVD only contained a few easter eggs of new material, I assumed that the recording sessions hadn't really worked out.

To be fair, much as I love Iannucci, it was a difficult idea to begin with; in-character commentaries are difficult at the best of times - see the rather dull, confused I'm Alan Partridge efforts and the half hearted KMKY attempts - but TDT newsreaders weren't particularly characters that allowed for that kind of improv, being more as they were vehicles for observations of media cliches.

23 Daves

With "Brass Eye", was part of the problem the sheer work that was likely to be involved in clearing previously unseen elements?  I'd imagine that the material which had already been broadcast had already been through the BBC and Channel 4 legal departments several times over and was therefore more bullet-proofed and less problematic than the unseen stuff.