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March 28, 2024, 02:46:27 PM

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The time the place

Started by The Giggling Bean, December 31, 2013, 01:49:37 PM

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Neil

Yes, that's a good point, and definitely worth stating. But CM did also seem like he might be a bit dismissive of DVD extras around that time, and he wasn't alone in this. jam is the best example, as I said, yet also went out of its way to include great stuff. Hmm, what else? Little comments on the info bands and stuff - "anyone who lists these should be boiled."

I think he's keenly and commendably dismissive of a lot of marketing practices and, again, wants to be different, always. Look at the lack of credits on the jam and Nathan Barley DVDs. No reviews or pull-quotes. They're mysterious and intriguing.

Looking again at jam, it has stickers that can be removed, utterly obliterating any sign of marketing. The stickers themselves? On the front "2 discs, 300+ minutes of disgusting bliss" on the front, and on the back :

"EXTRAS INCLUDED IN THIS PACKAGE:
one crashing airliner
eight tons of geese and
a 50ft plutonium bum"

Hehe.

Anyway, at that time, many, many people believed extras to be something which detracted from the main artistic statement and/or ruined the mystery - fans too, not just the artist, but CM has taken great care with each release. BE still does seem like a kind of oddly generic "extras: scene selection" release, though, particularly for such a landmark show. God, fans, never fucking happy.

Thomas

As much as I'd like to always hear more Morris stuff, I love the silly flippancy of the single Brass Eye commentary, for 'Drugs.' The fact that Morris himself is actually present, but saying next to nothing, makes it funnier.

TJ

Someone on, I think, the old Chris Morris Imitation W@nk board once said they'd worked on the commentary session for the forthcoming Brass Eye DVD and that something had clearly changed at the  last minute and Morris spent much of the time making below-par prank calls to, quote, "the kind of hard targets he seems to favour these days", the only one I can remember being phoning a taxi firm and asking then to rig a cab so that when they took a corner his boss would fall out. Or something. At the time it was dismissed as a hoax - I don't think the DVD had even been confirmed then - but it did also mention the tramps and the 'Nicky Campbell' focus group, so was probably the real deal. I remember Ziggy Spaceboy (prominent Morris fan of yore) replying "We can only hope these calls are funnier than their descriptions".

There was another rumour, which I heard from a contact within C4, that the original plan was to do tramps-style commentaries for all the episodes - prostitutes for Sex, barking dogs for Animals etc - but it proved impossible to organise. Those two accounts do seem to fit together quite neatly.

Meanwhile, I'd suspect some of the unseen Brass Eye material would have been legally unviable from the outset; that thing where he's with John Major would have fallen at the first hurdle for starters. What I really want to know, however, was what was going on when Morris was seen by several reliable witnesses shortly after the BES, filming something dressed as 'Christopher Morris' and interviewing what appeared to be spoof anti-Globalisation protesters...

thenoise

If the unreleased footage is unreleasable, they can include text descriptions either on screen or in a booklet.  Or include some shooting scripts on dvd rom.  There are a lot of different ways they could have told the fascinating story behind Brass Eye, putting the programme itself into proper context for future fans who missed the original broadcast, and its backlash.

Melth

Was there ever any truth in the rumour that CM was working on a Brass Eye USA episode to be shown on Channel 4 in the summer of 2001? The recording of the Michael Moore and Bret Easton Ellis interviews could have been planning for that, I suppose. If that was the case, that's one Morris project that I'm fairly glad didn't materialise, the Ellis interview being the very weakest of his celebrity stings (along with the Clare Rayner bits from Brass Eye, naturally). 

alcoholic messiah

Quote from: Neil on January 04, 2014, 03:13:13 PM
I think he's keenly and commendably dismissive of a lot of marketing practices and, again, wants to be different, always. Look at the lack of credits on the jam and Nathan Barley DVDs. No reviews or pull-quotes. They're mysterious and intriguing.

I wish more people were able to grasp this simple concept.

Just because I don't fancy doing something, and outwardly appear to be ensconced in idleness, it doesn't mean I'm lazy. I'm merely dismissive of marketing practices. And mysterious.


Pepotamo1985

Quote from: Neil on January 03, 2014, 12:23:32 PM
Although the Amazon release dates seem to contradict this, my memory is that My Wrongs and jam were next, around the same time, with TDT a few years later.

TDT was definitely released on DVD in 2004, Jam in 2003, and I believe BE made it to DVD in 2002.

There was attempted anniversary guff apropos TDT - 10 yeas on, etc.

The jam DVDs have a lot of what can be considered pointless extras, but they do also have a ton of great bits and pieces on there, including rehearsal footage.  I recall that the guy who was compiling the My Wrongs DVD (or at least working on the packaging) was actually sent on here to see if we had any suggestions.  The My Wrongs commentary also frustrated some fans, but I adore absolutely everything about that release, and My Wrongs slowly went from being something I sneered at upon release, to perhaps my favourite ever Morris thing.

Quote from: Neil on January 03, 2014, 12:23:32 PM
the Brass Eye DVD still seems like a bit of a missed opportunity

Do you think this is because we know there's a ton of unreleased stuff out there?

Quote from: Neil on January 03, 2014, 12:23:32 PM
we should just be glad we have it at all, and with minimal edits.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the DVD contain the 'full' versions of the episodes? And by that I mean all the stuff that was reinstated for the repeats prior to the special is included. I always forget that we should be happy that the Sutcliffe/Blast Judgment/etc. are commercially available, and we didn't get the originally broadcast versions.

Quote from: Neil on January 02, 2014, 11:00:19 PM
Instead of being massively grateful of the eventual DVD release...we went NUTS at what a "missed opportunity" it was. Just total woods for the trees shit. Obsessive fans can be such cunnys.

I'm not sure I can stomach it, but if I end up falling off the booze wagon (5 days deep!) and banging a Stella this evening I'll try to find the old TDT DVD release thread from 2004 or whenever it was. I can remember it pretty clearly, and it makes me cringe to think of it even now. Just reams of whining, whinging recrimination  that it wasn't an epic 10 disc anthology replete with literally everything ever committed to paper/tape during the writing, recording and production process, ranting about how some of the extras/eggs (like the AV describers) weren't up to much, and even some bizarre outbursts of accusation (generally levelled at Chris Morris) and finger pointing about why it wasn't an epic 10 disc anthology. Long-gone user Darrell, and the SOTCAA lot, sounded borderline murderous and based on virtually fuck all were shriekingly blaming Morris for ruining an alleged 'in character commentary' (amongst other things) that would've apparently been included if not for Morris having an intense disdain for his fans, DVD technology in general and the world.

TJ

Sometimes it's best just to leave things like that in the past, especially if it concerns people who don't post here any more. I'll put my hand up to complaining about the AV describers, but then I still fail to see the point of that, especially as it fucked up chapter branching on my old prehistoric DVD player back then. Also, whatever you think of it (and I like it, and never had much of a problem with the edited On The Hour release either), the DVD was sorely lacking compared to, say, Red Dwarf. I think that's what people were not unreasonably expecting.

Never heard about an 'in character' commentary to be honest but the others did definitely want to do a proper one, and it was definitely Morris who said no.

TJ

Quote from: Neil on January 04, 2014, 03:13:13 PM
Yes, that's a good point, and definitely worth stating. But CM did also seem like he might be a bit dismissive of DVD extras around that time, and he wasn't alone in this. jam is the best example, as I said, yet also went out of its way to include great stuff. Hmm, what else? Little comments on the info bands and stuff - "anyone who lists these should be boiled."

As a further bit of context, seems strange to think of this now but back in those frontier days of the internet, there really were a lot of people who seemed to take great delight in tee hee heeing at silly Chris Morris fans from afar, all the way from snippy faux-chummy NotBBC posters to the berks who did that 'Yorkshire Ripper victims try to get Brass Eye DVD banned' website that nobody fell for*, and to me at the time at least (and I doubt I was alone) Morris' comments about people who like extras - which he made in interviews as well - felt a bit like he was siding with them, and I think people started to think "well fuck you then". Easier to see how daft that was with hindsight but y'know.

*Hey Neil, remember that bloke who emailed us both seperately saying he'd seen Morris and "the Doon woman" 'morphing' themselves into Channel 5 shows overnight and insisted the site should run a news update about it?

Pepotamo1985

Quote from: TJ on January 05, 2014, 10:46:03 PM
Sometimes it's best just to leave things like that in the past, especially if it concerns people who don't post here any more.

Yeah, you're right. Guess I was just struck by how clear that thread is/was in my mind. I'd go back and edit, but apparently I can't for whatever reason.

Quote from: TJ on January 05, 2014, 10:46:03 PM
I'll put my hand up to complaining about the AV describers

Well yeah, it was a shit extra, and I think your reasons are perfectly legitimate. The prevailing wisdom at the time, however, seemed to be that Morris alone was responsible for the inclusion of that extra because he has nothing but contempt for his fans and is a complete cunt who needs to be shot in the birth mark blah blah.

Quote from: TJ on January 05, 2014, 10:46:03 PM
Also, whatever you think of it, the DVD was sorely lacking compared to, say, Red Dwarf. I think that's what people were not unreasonably expecting.

There's a substantive difference between hoping for and expecting.

Quote from: TJ on January 05, 2014, 10:46:03 PM
Never heard about an 'in character' commentary to be honest

Sexton mentioned it further up - but from what I recall, the inclusion of a brief (and slightly awkward sounding) 'in character' conversation between the cast as an easter egg on the DVD was taken as proof that there was not only meant to be an 'in character' commentary, but that it was in the process of being made, and CM bollocksed it up.

Quote from: TJ on January 05, 2014, 10:46:03 PM
the others did definitely want to do a proper one, and it was definitely Morris who said no.

That's quite interesting - is there a source for this, or is it insider goss you're party to specifically?

TJ

Quote from: Pepotamo1985 on January 06, 2014, 11:27:51 AM
Well yeah, it was a shit extra, and I think your reasons are perfectly legitimate. The prevailing wisdom at the time, however, seemed to be that Morris alone was responsible for the inclusion of that extra because he has nothing but contempt for his fans and is a complete cunt who needs to be shot in the birth mark blah blah.

That reaction did puzzle me a bit. Surely if anyone finds the idea of pointless deadpan over-explanation amusing (and in fairness usually uses it to brilliant effect), it's Armando? Like I say, though, he *did* seem to be cultivating some form of contempt for his fans around that time; anyone else remember the interview in which he likened people who preferred non-jam/Warp Morris to "people who hate punk wanting prog to come back"? Obviously hindsight casts a different light on all of that (but that STILL is a wanky, and indeed nonsensical, comparison!).

QuoteThere's a substantive difference between hoping for and expecting.

I don't think it was an unreasonable expectation though - if you look at some of the other stuff that came out around that time, Red Dwarf obviously but even things like Ripping Yarns had really set a high standard and I don't think it's that unreasonable that people might have anticipated a similarly thorough TDT (not that this is my opinion mind - a complete Graveyard Shift interview with Coogan AND Rebecca Front in a swimsuit is good enough for me!).

QuoteSexton mentioned it further up - but from what I recall, the inclusion of a brief (and slightly awkward sounding) 'in character' conversation between the cast as an easter egg on the DVD was taken as proof that there was not only meant to be an 'in character' commentary, but that it was in the process of being made, and CM bollocksed it up.

Hmmm, well, putting it as delicately as I can, some of the posters shouting the loudest weren't exactly averse to making massive leaps of logic based on not very much then deciding it was 'fact'. I'm not personally aware of them ever planning any in-character stuff apart from what did end up on there.

QuoteThat's quite interesting - is there a source for this, or is it insider goss you're party to specifically?

The latter, so I can't really elaborate... but by all accounts it was purely and simply not wanting to comment on his work, a la The Coen Brothers, so that's fair enough in some ways. Like I say, though, a crying shame not to have Iannucci and Marber recollecting away on there.

Sexton Brackets Drugbust

I'm sure a read something where Iannucci was asked about the possibility of TDT commentaries and AI responded with something along the lines of; "We've come up with something even better; In-Character commentaries."

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: Ambient Sheep on January 02, 2014, 04:09:46 PM
Contrary to the wiki, I'm sure I read somewhere (here, probably) that John Stapleton had no idea who Morris was, but the gallery rumbled him and told Stapleton through his earpiece.  Dunno how true that is though, better people than I wrote that wiki, no doubt.
Weirdly, I watched it at the time, and I'm pretty sure he mentions someone in the back rumbling him, not Stapleton himself. Well done getting all the way to air without being spotted, I suppose, but it was pretty dull.

PaulTMA

Quote from: Pepotamo1985 on January 05, 2014, 05:26:33 PM
I'm not sure I can stomach it, but if I end up falling off the booze wagon (5 days deep!) and banging a Stella this evening I'll try to find the old TDT DVD release thread from 2004 or whenever it was. I can remember it pretty clearly, and it makes me cringe to think of it even now. Just reams of whining, whinging recrimination  that it wasn't an epic 10 disc anthology replete with literally everything ever committed to paper/tape during the writing, recording and production process, ranting about how some of the extras/eggs (like the AV describers) weren't up to much, and even some bizarre outbursts of accusation (generally levelled at Chris Morris) and finger pointing about why it wasn't an epic 10 disc anthology. Long-gone user Darrell, and the SOTCAA lot, sounded borderline murderous and based on virtually fuck all were shriekingly blaming Morris for ruining an alleged 'in character commentary' (amongst other things) that would've apparently been included if not for Morris having an intense disdain for his fans, DVD technology in general and the world.

Please bump that, it sounds hilarious.

Famous Mortimer


weirdbeard

Quote from: TJ on January 06, 2014, 12:02:47 PM
The latter, so I can't really elaborate... but by all accounts it was purely and simply not wanting to comment on his work, a la The Coen Brothers, so that's fair enough in some ways. Like I say, though, a crying shame not to have Iannucci and Marber recollecting away on there.

I don't know why everyone else wouldn't have taken part. The lack of Coogan didn't stop them from all proving a set of fantastic commentaries for the Knowing Me, Knowing You DVDs. Maybe it was purely a scheduling issue, they couldn't get them all in a studio at the same time.

Barring the lack of a commentary, I think the TDT DVD set is an excellent piece of work. Certainly having (most of) the pilot and a full set of Mininews was absolutely vital, we could easily have had a bare bones release like so many other BBC DVDs.

Neil

Very much agreed. And perhaps the AV describers are there simply because of accessibility concerns?

I do remember that by the way TJ, yes. And the Tracy Ash(?) site.  I'm also fairly certain CM himself was passing around misinformation at that point, my favourite bits being 1) CM was going to parachute into the Big Brother 1 house to fuck shit up and 2) that Brass Eye was named after the "bra sigh", the noise a heavily bossomed woman's chest made when she removed her tit apparatus at the end of the day.

(People also thought Big Brother itself was some kind of CM hoax.)

Neil

Quote from: Artemis on January 03, 2014, 05:54:35 PM
Sometimes the moment they twig that the joke's on them was used in the show to brilliant effect. The most obvious example is Peter Tatchell, whose expression and tone after Morris finishes a lengthy libellous and probably quite unpleasant tirade against Conservative cabinet members he suspects are homosexual, is just wonderful. The expert timing between him 'getting it' and the cut into the graphics that follow it was sublime as well. I should re-watch this show, it's fucking brilliant.

Brian Cox was scheduled to appear in telly as part of a debate. One of his first times doing so, and he was a bit nervous about it. CM showed him that interview, and said if he ever wanted to throw his opponent, and make him sound like he was unsure of what he was saying, he should copy CM's
"what is this guy ON" face-pulling and snorting. He did, and all.

23 Daves

Quote from: TJ on January 06, 2014, 09:43:52 AM
As a further bit of context, seems strange to think of this now but back in those frontier days of the internet, there really were a lot of people who seemed to take great delight in tee hee heeing at silly Chris Morris fans from afar, all the way from snippy faux-chummy NotBBC posters to the berks who did that 'Yorkshire Ripper victims try to get Brass Eye DVD banned' website that nobody fell for*, and to me at the time at least (and I doubt I was alone) Morris' comments about people who like extras - which he made in interviews as well - felt a bit like he was siding with them, and I think people started to think "well fuck you then". Easier to see how daft that was with hindsight but y'know.


There were so many things going on at that point.  I think most musicians, comedians, actors, etc, reach a point where they briefly believe their own hype and stop trying, and there was a sense on here and elsewhere that Chris Morris had started to do this around the point of the Brasseye Special and for awhile after it.  It was also at this point where he threw together a couple of tossed away spoof websites (Tragibutes and the East London Bar Guide) which I thought were funny enough in a 'wry smile' kind of way, but certainly not classic Morris.  We were told that it was for free, it wasn't a serious project and we weren't to be so silly, I think, which seems like a fair enough response.  I sometimes wonder if that kind of "But it's not Grade A genius!" response put Morris off doing other stuff online.

I can remember making a couple of snide comments about him myself at this point, which seems a bit ridiculous now, and not the kind of thing I'd ordinarily do. 

Glebe

Quote from: 23 Daves on January 07, 2014, 08:57:32 AMI sometimes wonder if that kind of "But it's not Michael Grade A genius!" response put Morris off doing other stuff online.

Ambient Sheep

Yeah, I'm in the camp that agrees that the BE DVD was really a bit shoddy.  The early pressings (including mine) didn't even have subtitles.  When you think of what COULD have been put onto it, e.g. the pilot, and some of the clips that later surfaced via here and Youtube (e.g. the Holocaust board-game), there's a real missed opportunity there.  I do take the point about having to legally clear any more material involving celebrities or politicians though, I must admit I hadn't thought of that.  But that wouldn't affect the stuff I mention above, would it?

What's this John Major story, then?  I wasn't aware he'd ever "got" him.


On the other hand, I'm in the camp that thought the TDT DVD was great.  I seem to remember being baffled by the hate there was on here at the time.  A bit of a shame about the lack of a commentary, but otherwise superb, with all the extras you could ask for, not only the pilot and all the Mininewses, but even the Open University prog.  And Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan[nb]By the way, I was just checking the spelling of this on Youtube (I had it right, except I forgot the hyphen) and turns out the production team didn't always get it right either.  Check out Wrong v. Right.[/nb] on 9/11 is still sublime.   Although am slightly perturbed by:

Quote from: weirdbeard on January 06, 2014, 10:20:22 PMCertainly having (most of) the pilot and a full set of Mininews was absolutely vital, we could easily have had a bare bones release like so many other BBC DVDs.

We could indeed.  But MOST of the pilot?  I seem to be missing something here.


Neil

There's an additional package at the end, think its 8 minutes or something? Wasn't included.

Glebe

Quote from: Ambient Sheep on January 09, 2014, 11:28:03 PMWhat's this John Major story, then?  I wasn't aware he'd ever "got" him.

He didn't, but apparently Norman Tebbit is a huge fan of Morris' left-field humour!

Ambient Sheep

Quote from: Neil on January 09, 2014, 11:30:19 PMThere's an additional package at the end, think its 8 minutes or something? Wasn't included.

Thanks Neil.

Pepotamo1985


weirdbeard

The additional material piece, not found on the DVD can be seen here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdRxwJWShQQ

TJ

Quote from: Ambient Sheep on January 09, 2014, 11:28:03 PM
What's this John Major story, then?  I wasn't aware he'd ever "got" him.

In the opening titles, there's a couple of brief shots of 'David Jatt' taking a seat at a Tackling Drugs Together press conference hosted by Major. You then see him chasing some bloke in a suit waving some pink 'Cake'.

Pepotamo1985

Oh wow, thanks for that link weirdbeard xx

Glebe

Pity about the sound glitches during Rebecca Front's bit, great find nonetheless weirdbeard.

Morrison Lard

Quoteyou would've noticed unless you were born with 5 reverse gears
Marvellous line.