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Let's rewatch Brass Eye

Started by Neil, January 07, 2014, 02:23:10 AM

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Neil

Yeah, let's!  I haven't seen them for years, and sickened myself of them by having to rewatch them a million times when I was capturing them for the net, back when a commercial release seemed impossible. I'll do some more transcripts and stuff, and also will finish off those GLR tapes, as I'm right up for a CM binge.  You can see transcripts of the Drugs articles on the tumblr: http://cookdandbombd.tumblr.com/

What are the "Debs" in "from Debs to plebs"? Everyone always focuses on the next line, as a joke they took years to get. I guess it must be using "Debs" as a posh nickname to highlight middle/upper-class users?

Guy

I'd assumed it was short for debutantes.


Quote from: Guy on January 07, 2014, 02:28:46 AM
I'd assumed it was short for debutantes.

I thought it was short for Debbie Harry. Rhyming Slang. Deb means Debbie, debbie leads to Harry. Harry was the most common name of the higher class during that period, in the wake of the prince's birth.

Neil

I really love the bits where you see just how fast and prepeared Morris was, always impressive. David Amess asks him how he knows about Cake, and he fires back "tourists" without a pause. Then the Basildon Bond explanation, too - he's ready for absolutely anything.

One thing that would have been really amazing for the DVD is a gallery of all the letters and business cards they used to appear legitimate.

Guy

There's a smattering of those shown in the montage in the inlay.

Odd how a business card and a screengrab of PC4.org.uk are shown there (which I assume was to do with the Special), which wasn't featured in the show at all AFAIK.

Just checked it on the Wayback Machine, comes up with nothing of interest.

TJ

Someone who worked on the show once said on here that there had been a holding page for PC4 just to add a bit of extra cred. Doubt it would have showed up on archive.org even then, sadly.

Count me in, by the way. Ages since I've seen it!

Neil

I remember how excited I was by the PC4 stuff, and you can sometimes read the cards and letters by pausing. It really is great to be able to read the fake newspaper articles too - they're usually hilarious, as those transcripts on the tumblr prove.

Really not looking forward to the BES. Some of the best stings ever, but the tone of the studio bits just fucks it all up, and his mighty performance skills seemed to be on the wane at that point. Plus I hate the reused ideas, like the drugs/paedo music. The drugs music itself is still insanely funny. Just brilliantly judged, produced and timed.

And the Edmonds, oh, God. "Can we lose this bit about the slow crushing of his skull?" Then the "dimesmeric andersonphosphates" or whatever.

"Turned them into bloody Space Hoppers, for Gods sake!"

"...puked her own guts up, before she snuffed her lid."

"...and the bit with the horse was quite good, wasn't it?"

The alternative acronym for SHADT that can be glimpsed on the kids paper. And SHADT man's wry grin after the kid has seen that Mark Heap has gone shocking.

"Let's shatter some myths" *shotguns a centaur*

"It's in a jaar, mate."

"No, it's not wood."

TJ

Was there any confirmation of the rumour at the time that the Julia Davies role had been written for Sally Phillips, who turned it down on reading the script?

Neil

Don't recall hearing that before, but Julia Davis is typically rubbish in the BES, which continues to make her performance in the Chekov Shorts such a revelation. Is there a single person who enjoyed her stint in Four Lions? Genuine question - that must be one of the most commonly disliked CM bits I've ever seen. I think she's alright in Blue Jam/jam.

TJ

She was great in that BBC4 drama about Fanny Craddock too (and almost unrecognisable). I think she's like Catherine Tate and needs the right sort of material to shine, and as a result gets written off too easily.

Quite a few people were rumoured to have bailed from the BES due to the content, weren't they? David Cann for one (he did actually sort of confirm that to me once, without actually saying so in a legally binding way).

Ian Benson

Ah, this takes me back. Recorded the animals episode on videotape (remember videotapes?! Of course you do. Of course you do) and took it into school and rewatched it with some school chums in the science block at lunch time. The teach came in at one point and looked at it for a bit and then said "this can't be serious." Watched a couple of the later episodes with my best girl, but we were watching it in our own houses and connected to each other by the telephone, just laughing our heads off. Great days.

Just watched the first episode and I think it's really held up well. I like how the dinner party guests freeze when Morris walks away. Also it's so cool to see different-looking video footage for some of the reports (like The Day Today did) since so many shows don't bother with this attention to detail, even now when it must be at least twenty times easier to do.

The weasel fighting scene is one of my favourite things ever. His whole look is amazing and then that cut to him in his car with rock music playing and the voice-over and all that is just hilarious. Also his weird gestures in the pub, where he does the knock and the money display and the little measuring thing he does with his fingers. Really good. I suppose in my head a bit I don't remember that Morris is playing like 80 characters in this series, and they're all distinct and not overly caricaturish.

Probably not as keen as I once was on the celebrities looking daft stuff; still kind of like it but my sensibilities have changed regarding this sort of thing since it is quite easy to play on someone's politeness or whatever. Also my recollection is that the point of this exercise was kind of hammered into the ground over the course of the series. Didn't every episode have this thing happening in it? At a certain point I seem to recall it seeming a bit smug and repetitive or something but we'll see how it goes. I should say that Morris is at all times impressive at it (love him saying "bloody book" to Jilly Cooper). I dunno.

I think it was a really strong opening episode. Probably what I most love about it is how confident it all is. It's just straight in and this is it. One gets the sense of someone doing something purely because they find it funny, rather than doing something for lots of people to find funny if you get me. It doesn't once feel compromised or 'noted-to-death' or anything of that nature. I really like self-indulgence, especially with comedy. I don't think there's enough of that on the box these days.

Artemis

Slow down, Benson! Are we watching the first episode now?

Just reading those quotes Neil wrote made me chuckle my arse off. A lot of the fun is in the delivery and the gullibility of the targets, but I think what I love about this show is how polished it all is. The sheer attention to detail and backstory is immense - each episode feels like the tip of a huge iceberg of ideas, where Morris hasn't just come up with a good concept and a few great lines, but a fully formed idea, fleshed out to the point there must have been a rich background and superfluous stories and anecdotes that he could use if anybody queried his sincerity or how genuine the subject was. In an ideal world, we'd see some of that on the Brass Eye extras: the calls to agents, pre-camera set-ups and all the little convincers that must have been used, like the paperwork/logos that were designed, the content of the letters and brochures that were no doubt made just to convince those involved that this was a real thing.

"One girl cried all the water out of her body. What a fucking disgrace."

Old Thrashbarg

#13
Quote from: Artemis on January 07, 2014, 06:05:04 PM
The sheer attention to detail and backstory is immense - each episode feels like the tip of a huge iceberg of ideas, where Morris hasn't just come up with a good concept and a few great lines, but a fully formed idea, fleshed out to the point there must have been a rich background and superfluous stories and anecdotes that he could use if anybody queried his sincerity or how genuine the subject was.

On a similar bent, the aforementioned Bernard Lerring, the weasel fighter, is a fully formed character with depth, despite only existing for about a minute. It feels like there's a completed episode just about him ready to be broadcast.

Thomas

Thanks to lark like that, I've started on a Wiki documenting, as if real, the world that On the Hour, The Day Today, Brass Eye, and, arguably, Alan Partridge exist in.

Bit comedy nerdy, perhaps unnecessary or not worth bothering with, but the few articles I've put together have already bolstered my appreciation for the imagination behind these shows. And Chris Morris' acting, too.

It's open to public editing, but, y'know, don't muck it up.


Neil

Why don't you add it to the CaB wiki Thomas? That's what it's for, and only weirdbeard does these days.

thraxx

Quote from: Artemis on January 07, 2014, 06:05:04 PM
Slow down, Benson! Are we watching the first episode now?

Just reading those quotes Neil wrote made me chuckle my arse off. A lot of the fun is in the delivery and the gullibility of the targets, but I think what I love about this show is how polished it all is. The sheer attention to detail and backstory is immense - each episode feels like the tip of a huge iceberg of ideas, where Morris hasn't just come up with a good concept and a few great lines, but a fully formed idea, fleshed out to the point there must have been a rich background and superfluous stories and anecdotes that he could use if anybody queried his sincerity or how genuine the subject was. In an ideal world, we'd see some of that on the Brass Eye extras: the calls to agents, pre-camera set-ups and all the little convincers that must have been used, like the paperwork/logos that were designed, the content of the letters and brochures that were no doubt made just to convince those involved that this was a real thing.

"One girl cried all the water out of her body. What a fucking disgrace."

I too feel that the celebrity setups are a bit laboured, but watching some of them again, I don't think that he is playing on their politeness - for each target he knows exactly what he is doing and always manages to lay just the right 'bait' out for them to come out and lampoon themselves.  Jas Man is a particularly good example of this.  I wish that there was a DVD of the complete interviews, I bet there is hours of stuff that never made it in.  It must exist on a shelf somewhere.

mobias

I rewatched Brass Eye recently with my girlfriend and was surprised at how badly some of it has aged. The Day Today seems by comparison strangely timeless. I can never get tired of it. Perhaps because its more of an ensemble piece of work.

I think one of the reasons Brass Eye hasn't aged well for me is that I'd forgotten on just how reliant it was on the celebrity setups and since we've seen that sort of thing so much since then, and often much better done, it all just seems a bit old hat and stale now.
The animals and sex episodes are still my favourites whilst I think the peodophile episode is definitely the weakest by far. It seems to have the most of that sniggering school boy humour which kind of defines Morris at his worst.

Quote from: mobias on January 08, 2014, 08:51:22 AM
I rewatched Brass Eye recently with my girlfriend and was surprised at how badly some of it has aged. The Day Today seems by comparison strangely timeless. I can never get tired of it. Perhaps because its more of an ensemble piece of work.

I think one of the reasons Brass Eye hasn't aged well for me is that I'd forgotten on just how reliant it was on the celebrity setups and since we've seen that sort of thing so much since then, and often much better done, it all just seems a bit old hat and stale now.
The animals and sex episodes are still my favourites whilst I think the peodophile episode is definitely the weakest by far. It seems to have the most of that sniggering school boy humour which kind of defines Morris at his worst.

Yeah, as someone who came late to the party, seeing Brass Eye maybe two or three years ago in a completely different hemisphere, it hasn't aged well whatsoever. And as an outsider to the culture, you realise just how much it relies on references to incredibly transient people and events. Totally had the same thought about The Day Today, which again, as an outsider who saw it for the first time in like, 2011, it's much stronger and can stand on it's own against the ravages of time. Still great today. Will continue to be great and clever for years to come.

Brass Eye is still incredibly bloody funny, and what shines is just how savage and unflinching it is. There feels like a genuine rage brewing under it. The Day Today as a companion works incredibly well and has huge satirical merit, as well as being greatly funny, but Brass Eye is just raw and savage. Just fucking angry and savages everyone and anything, which is hugely admirable and fantastic. That won't wash away from it, but a lot of the humour and the weight of the transient celebrities long have though.

 

Guy

The same The Day Today that often gets called dated because it has pictures of John Major and Virginia Bottomley in it?

I don't mean to snipe but once again I don't see the merit in discussing whether it's 'aged well', as the perception of this is so vulnerable to the topical touchstones of the time, your personal familiarity with the material and the rhythms of pop culture in its wake. Every great comedy show has been called dated further down the line, it doesn't really mean anything and is a pretty transient concept itself.

Neil

Quote from: mobias on January 08, 2014, 08:51:22 AM
I think one of the reasons Brass Eye hasn't aged well for me is that I'd forgotten on just how reliant it was on the celebrity setups and since we've seen that sort of thing so much since then, and often much better done, it all just seems a bit old hat and stale now.

Much better done?!  Can you give examples please?

Baffled by the assertions it's dated badly, and is still anything but one of the greatest artistic statements of all time.

Old hat and stale? Brass Eye?

I don't even think you need to know who the celebs are, you can just appreciate the fact they've been prepared to spout absolute gibberish, and have been expertly manipulated into doing so. Noone else could have ever made that show.

Tiny Poster

Quote from: TJ on January 07, 2014, 03:37:19 PM
She was great in that BBC4 drama about Fanny Craddock too (and almost unrecognisable). I think she's like Catherine Tate and needs the right sort of material to shine, and as a result gets written off too easily.

Quite a few people were rumoured to have bailed from the BES due to the content, weren't they? David Cann for one (he did actually sort of confirm that to me once, without actually saying so in a legally binding way).

Do you know what his objections were? He didn't think it was a subject for comedy, that it wasn't funny, that there would be frightening repercussions for those involved, or a fourth option I haven't considered or maybe a mixure of the above?

Look, as someone who came into it knowing only Phil Collins and Rolf Harris, the celebrity appearances don't carry the same weight as it did for you guys. I can appreciate what he did, and I do, but they do lose something. Things can be criticised for aging badly, but a lot of great art, comedy included, does stand the test of time. Brass Eye is still fresh in the written jokes and delivery, which is absolutely excellent. "Stairwell nonce bashing led to him being Quadraspazzed on a Life Glug" etc. But the joke references to MPs doing out of character things or whatever, all these people saying these things and understanding the concept of them being celebrities, I can understand it and respect it.

But in my gut, coming into it years later, from a different culture, a different time, a different generation, those bits aren't as funny anymore. I can respect it, and I do, but they rely on a certain context for their laughs which doesn't exist anymore. The writing and feeling behind it is excellent. It is funny and it is still brilliant, but I am saying, objectively, as someone who came in cold after the fact, it hasn't aged as well as the Day Today stuff.

I disagree with old hat and stale though. Brass Eye is none of those things. Just chunks of it have lost a relevance that have it that extra weight. That these people I know and trust are fucking full of shit. It's lost that for the future people like myself. You'll always have that. I won't and it's unfortunate.

Guy

As said though, all of that stems from your personal familiarity with the people involved (or lack of it), and makes no scar on the quality and intent of the humour deployed within the show. Is the effect being diminished for you a fault in the programme as-made? No, so it's not valid to use it as a criticism of the programme.

I'm not saying it's not an honest or relatable observation from you, just that it doesn't form a justified criticism.

Quote from: Guy on January 08, 2014, 12:14:03 PM
As said though, all of that stems from your personal familiarity with the people involved (or lack of it), and makes no scar on the quality and intent of the humour deployed within the show. Is the effect being diminished for you a fault in the programme as-made? No, so it's not valid to use it as a criticism of the programme.

I'm not saying it's not an honest observation from you, just that it doesn't form a justified criticism.

I think it is a justified critism though? There's this one bit in Buster Keaton's The General that always makes me piss myself laughing. He gives his lover a photo of himself, which is just this hilariously deadpan and awful photo. It's just an inherently funny and clever moment which is obviously funnier when you see it. That film's like, a billion years old. And it's great. It doesn't age.

A lot of the writing stuff in Brass Eye is inherently hilarious and brilliant and doesn't age. The reference stuff works well for that period but it just feels a bit weak compared to the rest due to the ravages of time. When you look at old classic books, you respect them for what they were at the time, but you still criticise them from your modern perspective. That's just what I'm doing. I am the future. I am judgement. I am an archeologist, judging things, and baby, I'm justifying it.

We future critics also say baby considerably more.

Guy

But if you look at what you're saying there, it's that only ageless comedy is valid, and that all comedy must be designed to be ageless at conception to be valid. I don't agree with that in the slightest, comedy is for the present day, the future is a bonus.

thraxx

Quote from: Bored of Canada on January 08, 2014, 11:42:03 AM
Look, as someone who came into it knowing only Phil Collins and Rolf Harris, the celebrity appearances don't carry the same weight as it did for you guys. I can appreciate what he did, and I do, but they do lose something. Things can be criticised for aging badly, but a lot of great art, comedy included, does stand the test of time. Brass Eye is still fresh in the written jokes and delivery, which is absolutely excellent. "Stairwell nonce bashing led to him being Quadraspazzed on a Life Glug" etc. But the joke references to MPs doing out of character things or whatever, all these people saying these things and understanding the concept of them being celebrities, I can understand it and respect it.

But in my gut, coming into it years later, from a different culture, a different time, a different generation, those bits aren't as funny anymore. I can respect it, and I do, but they rely on a certain context for their laughs which doesn't exist anymore. The writing and feeling behind it is excellent. It is funny and it is still brilliant, but I am saying, objectively, as someone who came in cold after the fact, it hasn't aged as well as the Day Today stuff.

I disagree with old hat and stale though. Brass Eye is none of those things. Just chunks of it have lost a relevance that have it that extra weight. That these people I know and trust are fucking full of shit. It's lost that for the future people like myself. You'll always have that. I won't and it's unfortunate.

Hah!  You poor bastard.  You don't even know who Jas Man is... 

Quote from: Guy on January 08, 2014, 12:27:59 PM
But if you look at what you're saying there, it's that only ageless comedy is valid, and that all comedy must be designed to be ageless at conception to be valid. I don't agree with that in the slightest, comedy is for the present day, the future is a bonus.

I agree, but I never said it was meritless to make transient comedy. I just said, objectively, it had aged badly. My posts have been trying to explain that as a newcomer, the references aren't as funny as they once were. They WERE at the time. But they're not anymore. I didn't mean to be trying to make a point about merit. I was trying to talk about what had remained funny from a complete outsider. The interviews do not carry the same weight anymore to newcomers as they won't recognise the people and the references to people, which is a big part of the joke. The rest of the stuff. The written jokes, the delivery, the savageness, the graphics, the overall execution remains, but it's not what it once was.

The Day Today faired a lot better and it seemed less reliant on knowing certain people. And was funnier because of it.

Sexton Brackets Drugbust

Conversely, I've read lots of reviews from people who grew up in different eras and countries, who say that, while they don't recognise the celebrities themselves, they recognise the types of celebrity they are and understand their local equivalent.

Most of the humour comes from what Morris has got these people to say, anyway and that remains fresh to this day.