Game of thrones - series 4

[NoSleep]

I don't think so - I think this thread should be Spoiler free in terms of anything that hasn't been in the show yet. There was a Ice and Fire thread somewhere for discussion of the books.

I was inquiring because of the high frequency of blacked out spoilers, which I'm assuming is all stuff covered in the books that I should therefore avoid.

Please use Spoiler tags for anything beyond series 3 in this discussion.

[Hangthebuggers]

Fairest way to do it I think. Spoiler tag anything that's not been broadcast or is in the books.

I don't think the introduction of new characters will be as dramatic as in the books. I think they'll cut back on some[nb]

Spoiler alert

Belwas for example

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[/nb] and merge others [nb]

Spoiler alert

Such as the kingsmoot scenes with the Ironborn

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[/nb].

[Hangthebuggers]

I've forgotten almost everything about where each character was at.

Apart from a few people who

Spoiler alert

got slaughtered at that wedding, and I still can't really remember who they were

[close]

To recap.

Bran was heading north with Hodor, Jojen and Meera. His brother Rickon is travelling away with Osha the wildling (to split them up and lessen the chances of them both being murdered considering they are the heirs to Winterfell).

Arya is with the Hound and they've just escaped the murderous wedding in which she hoped to reunite with her mother and brother (who were both slaughtered along with all of their men).

John Snow escaped the wildlings and was wounded by his lover Ygritte before he made it back to the wall to warn them about the impending wildling invasion.

Theon is slowly having body parts removed in the hands of his captor Ramsay Snow (the bastard of Lord Bolton). Ramsay has sent Theon's flayed cock as a warning to Balon Greyjoy,to convince the ironborn to leave the north.

Sam and Gilly have just arrived at the wall after encountering white walkers and convince the maester to release ravens, warning everyone of the threat.

Davos has just freed Gendry to avoid him being burned at the hands of Melisandre, risking execution himself he convinces Stannis that he will need him in the north as the wildlings are coming.

Danaerys has freed the slaves of Yunkai.

Jaime and Qyburn and Brienne have just arrived back to Kings landing.

[NoSleep]

I'm not looking under the spoilers anyway, but I know from the other thread that it's almost impossible for people who have read the books to say a word without somehow giving something away. I was hoping this would be mostly a discussion of what is actually in the trailer. It's difficult to be neutral in anticipating beyond that if you've already read a version of the story. We should start a new thread when the new series starts. In the meantime I'm steering clear of this one.

[Famous Mortimer]

My favourite bit is when they have sex and GRRM takes ages describing food

[NoSleep]

The food sounds consistently disgusting in his descriptions (can't recall there's been that much sex in the books compared to the TV series). I'm up to about a quarter of the way through book 3 and will probably stop reading it until after the TV series now that it's so close.

[The Duck Man]

Personally speaking, and I know spoiler tag politics is pretty dull, but I'd prefer if we didn't have book spoilers under tags in this thread. I nearly read one a second ago just because I returned to the thread, forgetting last time I'd been in you'd been discussing the books, misunderstood a post and thought someone was talking about season 3 and highlighted the spoilers.

I know, personal responsibility etc. but I can imagine a few people doing and it'll get particularly confusing if people start putting episode stuff in spoiler tags shortly after broadcast and it all gets mixed up.

The book thread mentioned above is here, BTW.

[Mister Six]

Aye, there's no need for book spoilers in this thread, I think, tagged or no.

[Hangthebuggers]

Ok fair enough then.

NO BOOK SPOILERS FROM NOW ON PLEASE FOLKS.

(My fault I guess).

[BritishHobo]

I can't wait for the bit in Dance with Dragons where Jamie tries to grow his hand back with the help of his dead partner's son and accidentally turns himself into a giant lizard.

EDIT: SHIT

[Gurke and Hare]

Game of Thrones Season 4: Ice and Fire: A Foreshadowing - a preview program for the new series. Possibly a bit minor spoilery, it's hard for me to say as I've read the books.

[NoSleep]

I haven't even read up to the Red Wedding in book 3 and that didn't seem spoilery to me. It certainly made me look forward to season 4, however. Go on everyone, take a look.

I suspect you think it's spoilery because you know what they're alluding to in certain instances.

[DJ Solid Snail]

Yeah, having read the books I was scoffing at bits thinking, "You're spoiling everything!" - but then realised that's only because of the associations in my head and they're not giving anything away really. But when the cast and crew said stuff like "these are the highest stakes yet" and "usually episode nine's the climatic point but this season's full of them" that's not just hype, that's pretty spot-on. It's gonna be a good 'un.

[Borboski]

I remember stuff with Tyrion pissing about on a boat, going nowhere.  Interesting to see where the show goes from this point onwards, and much more excited about it than the books.

Struck me that when he does release it - in hardback - I will have to wait an age for a paperback version to follow for consistency on my bookshelf

#aspergers

[Thomas]

my god you guys i love daenerys am so excited

[ZoyzaSorris]

da-dah da-da-da-dahh da-da-da-dah da-da-dahhhhhh
da-dah da-da-da-dahh da-da-da-dah da-da-dahhhhhh
da-dah da-da-da-dahh da-da-da-dah da-da-dahhhhhh
da-dah da-da-da-dahh da-da-da-dah da-da-dahhhhhh

Got excited like a silly little girl when I heard this music in the background of weekly wipe.

Had no idea until today that some guy i used to do the odd bit of rapping with ages ago in brighton, skrein, was the mercenary suitor of the mother of dragons (now recast for season 4).Didnt recognise the fucker in the long wig. Annoying that quite a few people from those days seeming to be finding some sort of genuine success in life except me.

[BritishHobo]

my god you guys i love daenerys am so excited

Right, are we supposed to? Because I get the feeling that we're supposed to. And I know it's a cruel world and it's a dog eat dog world and it's a world where you gotta fight to survive and that but she just strikes me as a right imperialist bastard. There's a line in that preview that's probably in the books and I should probably remember because I read them, where she says

Spoiler alert

"They have a choice: they can live in my new world, or they can die in their old one."

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that just made me think... I don't like you. You're actually a bit horrible, aren't you? I don't want you to end up being Queen, even though that appears to be what the entire series is building up to.

Maybe it's just the hype. Unlike Arya, and Tyrion, and Brienne, and Davos, who have to try and keep their morals in a world where literally everyone is treating them like absolute fucking shit, Daenerys just floats along on a guff-cloud of compliments, everyone always telling her how bloody wonderful she is. The end-of-season cliffhanger last year was literally a bunch of slaves cheering and applauding her. Get to fuck.

[Thomas]

I've not read the books, but if she's been built up as a 'you're supposed to like her' character, I'd wager that it's because things are going to change in this next series. The trailer implies a touch of power madness, and this show does like to pull the rug out.

[kitsofan34]

So is there anyone you lads and lasses are vying to end up on the Iron Throne, then?

[NoSleep]

Not really vying for anyone, but I have a few (not many more than a couple) I'd guess at (assuming the obvious isn't going to occur). But I assume that's where everyone's at.

[thraxx]

Right, are we supposed to? Because I get the feeling that we're supposed to. And I know it's a cruel world and it's a dog eat dog world and it's a world where you gotta fight to survive and that but she just strikes me as a right imperialist bastard. There's a line in that preview that's probably in the books and I should probably remember because I read them, where she says

Spoiler alert

"They have a choice: they can live in my new world, or they can die in their old one."

[close]

that just made me think... I don't like you. You're actually a bit horrible, aren't you? I don't want you to end up being Queen, even though that appears to be what the entire series is building up to.

Maybe it's just the hype. Unlike Arya, and Tyrion, and Brienne, and Davos, who have to try and keep their morals in a world where literally everyone is treating them like absolute fucking shit, Daenerys just floats along on a guff-cloud of compliments, everyone always telling her how bloody wonderful she is. The end-of-season cliffhanger last year was literally a bunch of slaves cheering and applauding her. Get to fuck.

That's the Mother of Dragons you're talking about you FUCK.  She's the boz boz.  It is known.  I don't make a eunuch of myself for just any old bint you know.

I hope that series 4 isn't as dull as annoying as book 4.

[NoSleep]

It's going to be the 2nd half of Book 3, surely?

[BritishHobo]

So is there anyone you lads and lasses are vying to end up on the Iron Throne, then?

Tyrion with Davos as Hand, Jaime and Brienne as Kingsguard and Arya as Happy Girl Living In Total Safety.

[Mister Six]

Right, are we supposed to? Because I get the feeling that we're supposed to. And I know it's a cruel world and it's a dog eat dog world and it's a world where you gotta fight to survive and that but she just strikes me as a right imperialist bastard.

I think it's a bit ambiguous, and certainly she spent much of the second (or third, I forget) season being a complete fucking bitch to that dude who follows her everywhere. One of George RR Martin's aims with Game of Thrones is to deliberately subvert narrative conventions and reader expectations - Ned's beheading and the Red Wedding[nb]Almost a good band name.[/nb] were both written with that in mind. So as 'exiled queen returns to bring order to throne' is right behind 'son avenges murder of father' on the big list of fantasy cliches, I imagine things will get a bit more complicated for her. Not least because her turning up, killing all the White Walkers and taking over is the least dramatic arc for anyone ever.

Maybe it's just the hype. Unlike Arya, and Tyrion, and Brienne, and Davos, who have to try and keep their morals in a world where literally everyone is treating them like absolute fucking shit, Daenerys just floats along on a guff-cloud of compliments, everyone always telling her how bloody wonderful she is. The end-of-season cliffhanger last year was literally a bunch of slaves cheering and applauding her. Get to fuck.

Aye, and that's why I'm hoping that some of her arrogance and hubris will come back to bite her in the near future.

The other thing to remember is that so far Martin's seemingly been very much on the side of the disempowered and oppressed. Almost all of the characters that we're supposed to support are in some way on the fringes. Tyrion and Brienne are 'freaks' by birth; Bran is disabled; Davos is illiterate and rejected by his lord (and is missing fingers); Jon and Gendry are outcast bastards; Varys, the only vaguely decent council member, is a eunuch; Sam is rejected even by members of the Night's Watch. Arya and Sansa are both buffeted by the winds of politics and power, and struggle to find any agency (though I'm hopin/g that Arya's going to start carving her own path soon, probably through the skulls of some baddies).

Even the darker, less sympathetic characters undergo some kind of mutilation and exile on their path to redemption (Jamie, Theon) - and The Hound is doing the whole 'ronin' thing since he has no master any more (and his own mutilated face is given as an explanation for his self-loathing and estrangement from society).

Most of the 'baddies', meanwhile, are beautiful (or at least not deformed), powerful or otherwise at the top of the social and genetic ladder: Cersei, Melisandre, Stannis, Tywin, Margaery etc. Littlefinger's probably the one exception there (short - in the books, if not the show - and bears a scar from a failed duel). Martin distrusts the powerful and the beautiful, and they are generally shown to be more interested in their own schemes and wants than in helping those around or beneath them.

And if a 'goodie' has wealth, power and beauty in Martin's world then it doesn't mean they're actually decent people. Khal Drogo was a terrifying, murderous bastard. Robb and Catelyn got tens of thousands of young men killed to rescue two girls. And, of course, we know what happened to them...

So yeah, a beautiful young woman with medieval WMDs, magical powers, a self-righteous attitude and an absolute willingness to murder hundreds of thousands of people just because she thinks she ought to be queen... I don't think she'll be coming out of this well at all.

[Mister Six]

So is there anyone you lads and lasses are vying to end up on the Iron Throne, then?

Hopefully the destruction of the throne and the development of a republic - if there's one thing we can take from this series, it's that Westeros's political system is fucked.

[DJ Solid Snail]

Interesting that you'd characterise Stannis as one of the bad guys. I imagined the general consensus would be...well, my own opinion, that he's a bit prickly but far more honourable than most (a few burnings and a spot of infidelity aside), as well as - let's face it - the rightful heir[nb]sod the Targaryens - they're all batshit crazy[/nb] and almost certainly the best man for the job. I suppose his 'Crowning Moment of Awesome' has yet to be televised, but he's a fan favourite in a lot of circles.

[BritishHobo]

Hopefully the destruction of the throne and the development of a republic - if there's one thing we can take from this series, it's that Westeros's political system is fucked.

What's always fascinated me about the series is that any hope of an optimistic future for Westeros is going to take a fuck of a lot of effort. That society is in such a horrific state that it needs a hell of a lot of development before it can even hope to be a decent place to live in, let alone one with fairness and equality. I don't reckon there's anywhere near enough time or room for Martin to be able to satisfyingly set up a positive future for the kingdom. Way too much shit to get through.

[mycroft]

Interesting that you'd characterise Stannis as one of the bad guys. I imagined the general consensus would be...well, my own opinion, that he's a bit prickly but far more honourable than most (a few burnings and a spot of infidelity aside), as well as - let's face it - the rightful heir[nb]sod the Targaryens - they're all batshit crazy[/nb] and almost certainly the best man for the job. I suppose his 'Crowning Moment of Awesome' has yet to be televised, but he's a fan favourite in a lot of circles.

It's funny how quickly he rose in my opinion during series three - when he first turned up I thought he was some joker who'd be offed in no time at all. Brilliant character-development and performance from all concerned in that plot.

[Fry]

What's always fascinated me about the series is that any hope of an optimistic future for Westeros is going to take a fuck of a lot of effort. That society is in such a horrific state that it needs a hell of a lot of development before it can even hope to be a decent place to live in, let alone one with fairness and equality. I don't reckon there's anywhere near enough time or room for Martin to be able to satisfyingly set up a positive future for the kingdom. Way too much shit to get through.

Sorry I think this is more booky than showy so I will Spoiler it, but:

Spoiler alert

It's been a while since I've had a read-through, but haven't there been various allusions to the fact that the Grand Maesters are plotting against the throne from the top of their citadel? Planning to topple the kingdom and put in place a new system. Like I said, it's been a while since I've read it, so I may be mistaken - parts of me want to say it may have just been paranoid ramblings from the batshit post-Joffery Cersei - but it does make sense.

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[Mister Six]

Interesting that you'd characterise Stannis as one of the bad guys. I imagined the general consensus would be...well, my own opinion, that he's a bit prickly but far more honourable than most (a few burnings and a spot of infidelity aside), as well as - let's face it - the rightful heir[nb]sod the Targaryens - they're all batshit crazy[/nb] and almost certainly the best man for the job. I suppose his 'Crowning Moment of Awesome' has yet to be televised, but he's a fan favourite in a lot of circles.

I'm just going off the TV show, but he seems like a guy who had a code of honour but has allowed himself to be corrupted by the priestess and is now doing all kinds of fucking mad shit. He's just as bad as Robb in the sense of leading a bunch of people to their horrible deaths, but with added immolations and ritual sacrifice. And being an absolute arse to Davos, which is NOT ON.

So he might come good, but at present (TV-wise, at least) he's very much on the wrong side of the goodie-baddie spectrum for me.

And fuck the right of succession - nobody has the right to be king.