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March 28, 2024, 02:55:49 PM

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"Sleepwalking into a surveillance society"

Started by Pinball, August 16, 2004, 01:58:06 PM

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Pinball

Interesting item about Information Commissioner Richard Thomas's comments.

Part of his data protection role is to safeguard the public, and more than most people he is aware of the Total Information Awareness-related developments in interlinking databases, increased the number of databases and amount of data collected, and increasing the number of people who can access this highly personal and (formerly) confidential information, like say your medical, tax, credit card and phone records, for starters. He didn't put it like that of course ;-)  but did refer to:
QuoteMr Thomas, who is information commissioner for England and Wales, also raised concerns about the Citizen's Information Project, planned by the Office for National Statistics, which would create a population database for use by public services.

And he expressed concerns about a database of all children from birth to adulthood proposed in the Children Bill.
I assume the latter database, once established, will function creep to cover the entire population. As for the former database, all "public services" will be able to access it? Holy crap, that's a lot of people.

Lots of opportunities for data mining, profiling and surveillance by the spooks, not to mention your local council and Christ knows how many other low level public servants. This poorly protected and widely available information will then be sold to the criminal fraternity, and bingo crime rates soar. "But this is meant to reduce crime and terrorism", I can hear Blunkett bleating. Firstly, it will increase and not decrease crime, and secondly IMO the government is, in most cases, the biggest terrorist on the block.

Incredible how little coverage these backroom databases have got BTW, despite the fact they support the contention that a massive surveillance infrastructure is being built. Even if nice Mr Blair won't mis-use the data (and there's an assumption...), what about future governments say 30 years in the future? Also, don't forget that all this information is automatically fed to the US government. Do we, the UK electorate, have any power of censure over the US President? Go figure. Frankly, living in a country where the National Census is outsourced to a US military industrial company (Lockheed Martin) - something which the Canadian government didn't allow to happen, albeit only after public outcry - nothing the UK government does would surprise me any more.

terminallyrelaxed

Yeah we're all going to hell in a handbasket. Before I get all twisted up about the Lockheed thing again, lets talk about prevention - specifically crime prevention - after all it looks as though we're going to have to take steps to protect ourselves, as the government are'nt going to protect us against the Americans' agenda, and soaring organised crime rates will only serve to make us more afraid and desiring of strong measures and powers.
So what can we do to protect ourselves? All these companies already have our financial details in order to pay our bills etc, but what can we do to protect ourselves? To maybe not drop off the Big Brother map as such but maybe make a lower profile, make sure that these lowly paid civil servants etc have as little information about us as possible? And is there any point - the more of an unkown you are then perhaps the more unwanted attention you will attract?

Pinball

If you don't provide the information you will go to prison. I don't think "keeping a low profile" is a viable option any more, because it won't be possible once the ID card and/or associated TIA activity has commenced. Sure, there are things you can do to minimise "exposure", but for the most part there's bugger all you can do. The database for children (bagging ang tagging if ever I've heard it) certainly makes sure that the next generation is 100% captured.

I can't wait to hear all the little sheep bleating "if you've done nothing wrong..." on't radio etc.  People like that make me sick. I bet, even in the cattle trucks en route to the concentration camps, some Jews hoped that if they kept their heads down all would be well. "They" would look after them. Well, "they" did...

Edit: I emailed the PM programme about the Lockheed Martin-Census link, making the point that if the UK government so carelessly gives away such personal information to the US government, how can we trust its current database proposals? I doubt it'll get any coverage, but for what it's worth I used the name "Tom Smith" ;-)

slim

I stopped reading the paper for a while because this kind of thing made me so fucking furious.

With regards to the children's database, I think you're right, Pinball, all kinds of people will have access to the database. However, working as I do in local government, I thought I'd offer some information on the protection of the information. I'm not sure these are universal through local authorities round the country, I would hope so. The following are steps implemented I know of that are meant to help secure information:

    [*]All employees who access the information, including (I suppose especially) temps, are made to sign a confidentiality agreement.[*]Employees are encouraged to attend workshops around the Data Protection Act, Freedom of Information Act, etc.[*]Flyers about information security and how to prevent snooping by unauthorised people are posted around the workplace and sent to employees (ditto for the intranet).[*]A Caldicott manager is in post to advise of matters of transmission and dissemination of information and (at least in my experience) is quick, accurate and succinct in response to enquiries.[/list]
    I accept that the above doesn't offer a level of protection sufficient to meet most concerned people's desires, mine included. But at least they go some way to securing the data.

    Pinball, I'm in the mood to indulge my believing and angry side tonight so if you could provide any good links related to the TIA you mentioned, I'd be most grateful.


    slim

    Quote from: "Pinball"Um, Google?

    Heh, I'm not adverse to googling, it's just you seemed to have an idea of it already and I thought you might've prefiltered some of the crappier sites around before bookmarking.

    Almost every time I look up anything vaguely anti-authoritarian, a lot of the google results are crap written by rednecks, nazis and/or paranoid consipiracy theorists, referring almost all bad in the world to jews, nazis, lizard jew nazis, or worse. I was just looking for a lazy way but I can work through them all myself :)

    Pinball

    heh no probs. Total Information Awareness was canned by Congress who blocked it, so Bush changed name to Terrorlsm Information Awareness and made it a black op or whatever they call it (secret Pentagon-funded project with no Congressional approval needed), so it's happening anyway. It's a truly diabolical project IMO, which naturally means that the UK government is supporting it unreservedly.

    It's the blind leading the blind I tells ya.

    Now whilst I realise if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear (heh), I don't find the idea of monkey boys of the State kicking my door in at 3am just because I d/l the Anarchlst's Cookbook from the Interwanknet, or rented a chemistry textbook from the local library, to be acceptable. When they do that, BTW, they make you sign a disclaimer form so you won't tell anyone. The police State therefore remains relatively invisible. And so blah on blah. Ah well.

    untitled_london

    disgusting doesn't even begin to sum it up really.

    i couldn't pin down exactly when we stepped onto this (really rather lame school boy fantasy) of a dynamic, but we are 100% headed in that direction.

    what really grates me, is how apt the title of this thread is. those that are aware are too fucking lazy/ greedy & content/ to care and the rest are so poxy docile that it takes nothing short of a cattle prod up the arse with the promise of a big mac as a reward to et them to stand up for themselves.

    every report in this vein pushes me closer to purchasing a one way ticket to a 2nd world nation (having borrwed ridiculously first of course), and tosssing my passport into the first airport bin i find.

    seriously fuck it, i've probs only got 40 years to live anyways - can i dodge them for that long....

    ooOOooo new game show idea :P

    Pinball

    "Beat the System": Each week a new contestant tries to stay one step ahead of David Blunkett and his cronies. But he'd better move fast 'cos they're closing in, and they mean to kill him!

    Ah the entertainment value.

    slim

    Quote from: "Pinball"heh no probs. Total Information Awareness was canned by Congress who blocked it, so Bush changed name to Terrorlsm Information Awareness and made it a black op or whatever they call it (secret Pentagon-funded project with no Congressional approval needed), so it's happening anyway. It's a truly diabolical project IMO, which naturally means that the UK government is supporting it unreservedly.

    It's the blind leading the blind I tells ya.
    Thanks, this has definitely inspired me to have a look around and see what I can find on this. Once I stop reading this bloody addictive board, that is.

    Quote from: "Pinball"Now whilst I realise if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear (heh), I don't find the idea of monkey boys of the State kicking my door in at 3am just because I d/l the Anarchlst's Cookbook from the Interwanknet, or rented a chemistry textbook from the local library, to be acceptable. When they do that, BTW, they make you sign a disclaimer form so you won't tell anyone. The police State therefore remains relatively invisible. And so blah on blah. Ah well.
    Oh crap, I downloaded that a few years ago out of curiosity, so I'm probably listed as a potential terrorist. Oops. I only wanted see the lockpicking bit really anyway.


    Quote from: "untitled_london"Every report in this vein pushes me closer to purchasing a one way ticket to a 2nd world nation (having borrwed ridiculously first of course), and tosssing my passport into the first airport bin i find.

    seriously fuck it, i've probs only got 40 years to live anyways - can i dodge them for that long....
    I've considered this myself. A lot of people seem willing to lend me great deals of money at the moment... I was thinking perhaps of going to Cuba, trying to stay there, and smoking my way to oblivion on fantastic cigars. :) Just shut the whole world out...

    But that would be selfish, don't you think? Surely it's better to stay and fight?

    (and by fight I mean wimpily attend protests, donate money to charities fighting for our rights, rant at my friends and generally do what I can without being labelled a terrorist. Please, I don't want to go to stinky prison, I meant the nice version of fight. Ok? Ta.)

    Pinball

    I reckon India would be a good bet. According to Waspy a mansion house can be had for £10k, and it's got good links with the UK etc. etc.

    But ideally, you'd need to go to a country with no extradition treaty with the UK, like Indonesia. Yikes! But there must be other more welcoming 3rd world countries who won't shop you to Blunkett????

    terminallyrelaxed


    Vermschneid Mehearties

    None of my friends can see that the new I.D cards and their databses of information are a very bad idea, borderlining on an infringement of personal rights and freedoms.

    They just think it's a piece of card with your name on.

    When I told them that hundreds of unneccesary details about you, including biometric data were to be stored on a database at the home office, one of my friends replied, "No they're not."

    So in an attempt to get as much information out of the public as possible, they are giving the general public as little information about it as possible.

    Well they can fuck off. What's even the point of these if they aren't compulsory? The only information they'll obtain are some fairly dull, conforming law-abiders, and the bank details of their trip to M&S. Top secret and everything.

    I already have several seperate forms of I.D and can prove my identity quickly with various amount of evidence. That's a good enough reason never to carry one of these cards.

    Why not just implant a GPS chip into everyone in the country?...ERK. Don't give him any ideas...

    untitled_london

    Quote from: "pinball"a country with no extradition treaty with the UK, like Indonesia. Yikes! But there must be other more welcoming 3rd world countries who won't shop you to Blunkett????


    heh - when i said that iw as gonna toss my passport - that wold effectively render you as null and void.

    i'm pretty sure that inorder to extradite you they'd need to establish who you are.

    i reckon once you've picked a suitable landmass to arrive at and have tossed you passport - the #1 priority has got to be to jump borders again...thats it - your done you oofficially missing and they have zero idea where on the planet you are.

    look at bin-laden they cant f'king find him - and he's really really famous!

    what are the odds of them catching up with you - at worst ur an economic terrorist - but more likely - your just 'another insurance write off'. hell to be honest, what are the odds they'll even look for you?


    simple really.

    terminallyrelaxed

    Oh dear.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3574010.stm

    Quote
    Could pay-as-you-drive insurance work?

    Motorists are routinely driven to distraction by car insurance bills over which they have little control. A GPS based system aims to end all that, by introducing monthly pay-as-you-drive cover.

    A little black box hidden away in the boot of your car could lead to itemised monthly bills for cover, insurers say.
    Insurers say they have no fixed ideas of who is most likely to crash

    Using telematics - a combination of information and communication technologies - to keep track of your movements, the devices are at the centre of plans to introduce pay-as-you-drive insurance.

    It could mean cheaper bills for people who only use their car occasionally, but extra costs for those driving long distances along busy routes every day.

    By the end of the year 5,000 cars will have been fitted with the black boxes, to collect data for an 18 month pilot scheme.



    They are going to get us with our wallets. want not t be raped by Insurance Charges? The stop being silly and submit to a tracking device!

    Pinball

    Save money and keep your children safe! All it costs is your privacy. Bargain.

    Almost Yearly

    I went to something called the Forest Festival, a couple of times, years ago - don't know if they still do them, Forest of Dean old-styley shindig where there's lots of folk music and friendliness and tea in mugs and you're still allowed dogs, saw an awesome Doo The Moog gig there anyway - and there was a crusty geezer passionately stomping out a self-penned folk tune in the mud. The lyrics went something like:

    I ain't gonna take that card
    I ain't gonna drop my guard
    I ain't gonna lose the right to choose, even though these times are hard
    No I ain't gonna take that drastic plastic card

    He was actually on about credit cards back then, but it could have been Tesco loyalty ones, state ID ones or anything. Obviously he was a smelly anti-social type though, so forget him, cos if that's what happens to you when you escape the system I'd rather lose my freedom and keep my Ben Sherman.
    ;-)

    untitled_london

    Quote from: "terminallyrelaxed"Oh dear.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3574010.stm

    Quote
    Could pay-as-you-drive insurance work?
    ......

    By the end of the year 5,000

    .....

    [imx]http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39968000/gif/_39968520_car_gps_inf416.gif[/imx]


    .....


    thats okay then, thats aaaaages away

    :P





    i know i know .. cheap shot

    terminallyrelaxed

    Quote

    Dear Mrs London

    Little Untitled is easily distracted in class and regularly makes never-mind-cringe-I-want-to-crawl-under-a-rock-and-die 'puns', or plays on words, which affects his concentration and the standard of education given to those around him. He does show potential though.

    4/10 Must Try Harder.


    untitled_london

    4/10


    w0000000t
    yay me!

    thank you TR it is sooo nice to be encouraged & appreciated.

    i will indeed try harder.

    i'd like to thank my agent, my coach, my god .....

    slim

    *bump*

    I don't how this passed me by.

    Oh yes I do; I keep not reading the news.

    Quote from: "[url=http://society.guardian.co.uk/children/story/0,1074,1595561,00.htmlSociety Guardian[/url]"]U-turn on child protection database

    Plans for a multi-million pound computer system containing every child's details are "too complex to be effective", the chairman of the inquiry into the death of Victoria Climbié said today.

    Lord Laming had previously recommended the creation of a universal database - containing details of children under 16 - in a bid to improve multi-agency working and record sharing to safeguard children. But he today backtracked on the call and suggested such a system would be unworkable.
    Hurray! He's finally realised what an expensive cock up this will be. Perhaps he's spoken to some of the disgruntled project managers in LG and realised how difficult and useless this is going to be.

    I'd imagine he wants to wash his hands of it and not be associated with such a monumentally bad piece of work once it all goes wrong.

    I can see workers having difficulties because the concern flag system will inevitably mean increased referrals to social services. The consequences of this will be that thresholds for action on referrals will be raised, perhaps subtly, within social services and that already under-resourced teams will have more unnecessary referrals to wade through to find the cases that do need attention.

    It'll also cost a bomb and probably won't work properly until well after January 2006, the deadline for the first stages to be complete.

    Quote from: "[url=http://society.guardian.co.uk/children/story/0,1074,1595561,00.htmlSociety Guardian[/url]"]The Department for Education and Skills is currently reviewing Lord Laming's recommendation to develop a database that would contain the details of every child in the UK, which could be accessed by child protection professionals such as social workers, police officers and doctors.

    Staff would be able to record notes about a child and flag up concerns they have.

    But experts have already warned the cost of developing the system could run into hundreds of millions of pounds and it could be swamped with concern warnings.
    Or I could've said it succinctly like that I suppose.

    Quote from: "[url=http://society.guardian.co.uk/children/story/0,1074,1595561,00.htmlSociety Guardian[/url]"]Lord Laming has now joined the ranks of doubters as he suggested the recommendation, made two years ago, was unworkable and likely to breach data protection rules, according to an interview published today on social care and health professionals' information website, Care and Health.

    [...]

    "A national, all-singing, all-dancing, complicated database, accessible to everybody is not only expensive but I doubt it will improve case outcomes. It also breaches reasonable safeguards of data protection," Lord Laming said.
    I wonder if the government will pull the plug now he's publically retreated in the face of the difficulty of the project? Let's hope so.

    Pinball

    We won't be safe until our homes our bugged, and probes are inserted up our arses.

    zozman

    Good bump Slim  This really was a poorly thought out concept from the off.  I was speaking to a social worker a few weeks back who told me that the entire Laming report has very limited implications for protecting children, and much more to do with protecting social services and reducing the possibility of litigation.  If there's a paper-trail, then council's can provide this to courts and enquiries.  Now there's nothing wrong with that, but establishing the paper trail means social workers will spend their time filling in forms and updating the database rather than working "out there".

    Take on admin staff to do this?  Yeah, good luck with the way people complain about their council tax at the minute.

    I suppose this could have implications for the national ID Database too - I suspect the government will continue on their current course though, pumping in millions (billions?) of public money on the IT project that would be much better spent on employing social workers, rather than face accusations of a u-turn.  Fucking pathetic.

    Pinball

    Yes, these d/bases are a massive waste of money. Paper trails have been replaced by data trails, but still expensive, bureaucratic, and useless. People are needed, not more forms.

    slim

    Well, the DfES is actively reviewing it, which is only a good sign I think. They wouldn't bother at all if there weren't doubts within the civil service.

    You're right in that it's an easy move for the government because local councils will foot the bill and Labour won't get the direct political impact of the tax rises needed to fund it. I notice Tony's put off the council tax band review 'til after the next election too, probably in an continued attempt to not end his reign on a terrible down note.

    However, I do think it's possible they'll subtly withdraw in the face of increasing opposition, discontent, spiralling costs and unmet deadlines. Probably not actually announce a u-turn but twist things around so it sounds like something's still happening, just not something this big.

    In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if Laming was prompted so that they could say it was expert advice that made them reconsider, it takes the pressure off.

    Yeah the exemplars they've laid out for the social work processes are a fucking nightmare. It would mean unnecessary form filling. I'm not a rabid social worker with a hatred for forms, either. I see them as a necessary chore in social work today, but these ones are really ridiculous. There's already an adequate, actually bloated, paper trail. Well, there is when the resources are in place and workers can find time to do it all.