Phil Collins...Cunt?

[daf]

Brilliant drummer!

Bonus point awarded for looking like a baked bean :

[thepuffpastryhangman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtzgBJ13vro&feature=kp

He does a more than half-decent job of stepping into Gabriel's shoes - I guess this is from '76 or '77 - I'm yet to see Stewart Lee look half as convincing.

[the psyche intangible]

Brilliant drummer!

Bonus point awarded for looking like a baked bean :

Hmm, he looks like a sculptured turd from a crooked arse, which is what he is.

[Crabwalk]

Brilliant drummer!

Bonus point awarded for looking like a baked bean :

[thepuffpastryhangman]

Mayo? I must be grilling.

[Glebe]

Didn't he say he'd leave the country if Labour were voted in back in the 90s or summit? Does he still live in his evil mastermind's lair in Switzerland?

[elnombre]

Despite some cuntishness I could conceivably see him making a reasonable elder statesman-like comeback. He should try to get a Disney soundtrack again and tour with Elton or Billy Joel or something like that.

Besides which in a world when so many entertainers of his biggest era are being outed as rapists and child molesters, 'bit of a cunt' seems wholesome and folksy.

[NoSleep]

He's not actually a Tory, or at least that's what he sez anyway

I remember him putting Oasis into Room 101 on account of them starting that rumour.

Oh, and he was in Brand X.

The other reason he gave for retiring (aside from his buggered drumming hands) was that his name had become a joke to the general public (his albums languishing in the 20p section of secondhand record shops alongside Howard Jones and Paul Young).

[Maurice Yeatman]

Brilliant drummer!

Bonus point awarded for looking like a baked bean

Envy has turned Phil from a bean to a green pea, but he approves the joke: 

[NoSleep]

I also remember Alexei Sayle explaining how the title of Phil Collins' "Hits" was an anagram.

[shiftwork2]

No trace of tinned legumes here.



[phwooar thread] She would certainly feel it coming in the air - tonight! [/phwooar thread]

[great_badir]

Although I dislike most of his solo stuff (exceptions are most of Face Value, and a couple of tracks on his next three albums), I will defend the man himself to his, and my, grave.

He is (or, rather, was) an incredible drummer.  Very musical, very versatile, with great technical chops.  Genesis are my favourite band, and there's very little of their output I don't like, including the post-Gabriel stuff.

To address the negatives in Don_Preston's cliches list one by one:
Tory - nope.  He DID once say that if Labour got in he would leave the country, but the rest of that quote was something along the lines of "and the rest aren't much cop either".  As it happens he left the country anyway.

Dumped his wife by fax - part truth.  Divorce proceedings were already well underway, and Genesis were halfway through the We Can't Dance tour, on the other side of the world.  He needed to sign some paperwork which was faxed (NOT by his wife) to whichever venue Genesis were playing that night and he faxed it back, along with an angry aside because his wife was trying to stop access to his kids.

Buster - the film is....meh, but he was pretty good in it.  Also cf. Phil as Roland Copping in the decidedly dark Australian film Frauds.

Led Zepp at Live Aid - LZ had been rehearsing with Chic's Tony Thompson for a few weeks beforehand.  When Robert Plant (who had employed Phil as drummer on his solo albums) heard that Phil was going to be at the Philly concert too, Plant asked him at pretty much the last minute to join them on stage.  Phil has always said that of course he was gonna say yes, but at the same time what a crazy idea it was cos not only had he not done any rehearsing with the band or of the songs, there was also a second drummer with whom he had not had any previous experience.  Apart from anything else, watch the footage again on YouTube, and you'll soon realise that however bad the rest of the band sounds, by far the worst culprit was Jimmy Page.

Ruined Genesis - he didn't.


Also, all those accusations of anti-semitism that were around in the 70s/80s were total bollocks.

I would also like to nominate his cover of Tomorrow Never Knows on Face Value as a genuinely brilliant cover.

Just my thoughts there.

[Phoenix Lazarus]

I also remember Alexei Sayle explaining how the title of Phil Collins' "Hits" was an anagram.

This.

[elnombre]

The only Phil material I ever bought was the single of Everyday - anyone remember that one? My mum had his early albums, so I heard the rest enough growing up.

If I could pick one of his songs to never hear again it would be that awful cover of Groovy Kind Of Love. An awful song already mind, but it didn't need digging up and beating back into the ground with a Casio shovel.

[great_badir]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtzgBJ13vro&feature=kp

He does a more than half-decent job of stepping into Gabriel's shoes - I guess this is from '76 or '77 - I'm yet to see Stewart Lee look half as convincing.

'76, Trick of the Tail tour, with Bill Bruford on guest drumming duties.  Culled from the same footage, skip forward to 1.31 on this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU2bOYiBX28

They NEVER played Cinema Show like that before Gabriel left.

[Vodka Margarine]

I like Turn It On Again, Mama and of course, his own immortal Sussudio.

I think we have an ambivalent relationship with him here in the UK, especially these days. But twenty to thirty years ago he was unstoppable. He's like Mick Hucknall -sold a ridiculous amount of records but you never seem to meet anyone brave enough to say they're a fan. Something doesn't quite tally up there. I know he's still widely regarded as some kind of nasal demigod in America.

He's also done some stellar work on Masterchef.

[Beagle 2]

I've been meaning to start a thread on Phil Collins for a year and a half, but it was just too daunting a subject.

I got stuck at my dad's house last year for a month after breaking my leg. He has two CDs: The Best of the Kinks and the Best of Phil Collins. I used to like the Kinks, but within a week of hearing the strains of "You Really Got Me" at the start of every disappointing mince-based meal I was beginning to wish that the Davies brothers' sibling rivalries had spilled over in the early fifties, and they'd simultaneously decapitated each other during a game of British Bulldog. So egghead it was.

I came to realise during those long winter nights that Phil Collins represents a junction where all of my tastes, prejudices, motivations, and insecurities converge.

When I was a child, I liked Phil Collins. He produced accessible, hooky pop music. I thought "Another Day in Paradise" was brilliant. It was about homeless people, who I felt sorry for. "Yeah, I am in paradise aren't I, compared to them", I thought. Of course I was, I was eight. I was not yet equipped with the requisite cynicism to question Phil Collins, to judge my own level of paradise to that of the child actor, rock drummer and millionaire pop star Phil Collins. I remember my brother thought the song was "pony" and that Phil Collins was a "dick", but he listened to Iron Maiden, who sounded like a colossal fucking racket.

I got my mum "...But Seriously" for her birthday, and we'd while away the hours listening to Phil Collins. "Phil Collins is good", I thought. Buster came out. I got it on video, being a Phil Collins fan. I liked Phil Collins.

I didn't think about Phil Collins much during grunge and my parents' divorce, when I started to realise that life was shit and everybody is a cunt. By the time britpop came along, everybody seemed to hate Phil Collins. I had put away childish things, and so I too, hated Phil Collins. I don't know if you know this, but apparently he left his wife via fax.

Noel Gallagher said we should all hate Phil Collins, and to be honest he did seem a bit shit by that stage. He was from the eighties, which we'd all now suddenly decided were awful, and had big echoey production, and he was about forty which we were never going to reach, being so rock and roll with our pudding bowl haircuts and fags and Kula Shaker tapes. So from then until last year, the position was: I hate Phil Collins. But did I really hate him, or was I just pretending because of what I'd been told to believe? He was the go-to public figure of fun for years. The musical Piers Morgan of the 90's. The news that he was big amongst hip hop artists was greeted with much piss-takery by people like Iain Lee. But while they were sneering, the implication was clear – as a group of people they probably don't give a fuck what the NME, Noel Gallagher or the Labour party think of Phil Collins. So they're judging him on his musical merits. Iain Lee is not.

It was a few months before the winter of Collins that a friend of mine put "Easy Lover" on the jukebox in a pub. We all scrutinised his face as he returned. Was this an ironic choice? After a brief grilling, I was satisfied that it was not. It made me question myself. "What's the matter, it's a great song" he said, in response to our grimaces. It... did sort of sound like a good song. I was... enjoying it?

I had already begun to re-evaluate Phil Collins.

I was dipping my toe in, flirting with this seductive new opiate. But I made absolutely sure that this was still an ironic thing. Obviously I still hated Phil Collins, but a post-drinking examination of my YouTube history would increasingly contain the songs of Phil Collins. "What WERE we listening to last night?!" I would say, stressing my mortification so that everybody could hear.

We were listening to Phil Collins.

By the time my leg was healing and it was time to leave the care of my father, I was actively putting Phil Collins on, sober, and while other people were there. I was finding old concerts on YouTube, going through albums to seek out hidden gems, even checking out Genesis for fuck's sake. But I still didn't know whether I liked Phil Collins.

Was this nostalgia? Was it part of the aging process, did these songs mean more to me now I was a middle aged fart myself? Was it still me trying to be self-consciously cool? I'm pretty sure the biggest hipster cunts DO like Phil Collins, that would seem about right. Was I actually enjoying the music itself? Another Day in Paradise is objectively fucking awful, but I used to like that. Do I find Sussudio such a belter because it's a genuinely great piece of power pop, or is it just funny because it's a compendium of 1980s song clichés? I'd probably have to say Against all Odds is my favourite piece of Collins, but is that just based on a distant memory of being at a party when I was five while Live Aid was on?

Do I like Phil Collins or not? Do I like anything with purity, or are all my tastes dictated by pride and insecurity? I don't know. I don't know.

It's been more than a year now, and I have pretty much avoided the output of Phil Collins during that time. Whether I like him or not, I don't like the philosophical quandary he places me in although stick Sussudio on at a wedding I'll go fucking bananas belter mate belter.

[Glebe]

Another Day in Paradise is also a bit cheeky. "Another day for you and me in paradise?" Yeah, we're not all multi millionaires, mate.

[NoSleep]

It's been more than a year now, and I have pretty much avoided the output of Phil Collins during that time. Whether I like him or not, I don't like the philosophical quandary he places me in although stick Sussudio on at a wedding I'll go fucking bananas belter mate belter.

I find myself wondering about music I've ultimately abandoned across the years. It's so easy on the internet to take a peek at something and question why I left something behind and what did I see in it before. Usually I find it no longer to my taste and I figure the curiosity is more to do with self-reflection than any expectation of reliving the enjoyment this music may have afforded me once; who was it that liked that music?

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

'Sussudio' getting some strange forms of defence on 'ere. It just rips off Prince's "1999", doesn't it (by fax)?

[great_badir]

'Sussudio' getting some strange forms of defence on 'ere. It just rips off Prince's "1999", doesn't it (by fax)?

It does, but Phil has always been very open about how much he loves Prince's stuff and particularly 1999, saying that Sussudio was his take on the same basic theme with added lyrical bollocks.  But this time by telex.

[Indomitable Spirit]

A treat for all you Phil fans

Writer Starlee Kline exorcises the memories of a particularly painful break-up by writing her own personal break-up song. Acknowledging her own lack of musical ability, she turns to a surprisingly candid Phil Collins for advice.

Obviously, the central conceit of this piece is truly stomach churning, but Phil comes off as thoroughly amiable and sympathetic bloke.

[daf]

Aw, that was lovely - what a ruddy good bloke!

[23 Daves]

It does, but Phil has always been very open about how much he loves Prince's stuff and particularly 1999, saying that Sussudio was his take on the same basic theme with added lyrical bollocks.  But this time by telex.

I can actually remember Smash Hits' review of "Sussudio". It was something along the lines of "This sounds as if Phil was fiddling with his son's transistor radio, stumbled upon Prince's "1999" playing on Radio One, thought 'this is what the kids are into these days!' then ripped it off wholesale". Even at the time, it was openly mocked.

As for me, I never really took to Phil Collins' solo material. Weary Casio-accompanied ballads about divorce and over-produced cod-Motown ditties didn't do it for me in those days, and they still don't do it now. I did love post-Gabriel Genesis though, for some reason, and played their 1983 album "Genesis" to death. On revisiting it recently, I was baffled and unimpressed by the awkward halfway house between prog and pop. Straight down the charity shop.

I remember that my cousin tried to interest me in Peter Gabriel era Genesis on finding out that I loved the Collins era stuff. I was baffled beyond belief, and I think I said something along the lines of "This is music for GIRLS" (which, if their fanbase is anything to go by, seems largely untrue). I was very confused by the fact that two seemingly entirely different bands could exist under the same name.

[thepuffpastryhangman]

They certainly had girl fans when I saw them. An impressionable wee mite, I was, at once surrounded by all manner of older, cheesecloth bloused and tie-dye skirted girls, glowing with middle-class health and confidence. They knew the words, they appeared to have choreographed I Know What I Like. I didn't know these people existed, it was all Two Tone round our way, not a Fiona in sight. The ticket was £8, twice as much as Thin Lizzy but ten times the education. Valentino's in a cold sweat indeed.

[Beagle 2]

There's also some definite 'inspiration' taken from Wish You Were Here for I Wish it Would it Rain Down.

Fuck it, I'm belting out some Phillip right now. Currently playing: Something Happened on the Way to Heaven.  Mood: Feel safe.

[mobias]

But Seriously? I can't believe there's yet another thread discussing the merits of Phil Collins. It just seems like yesterday I was on here defending him. I'm huge Genesis fan, mostly the Gabriel era stuff but I'm not afraid to admit to liking some of the later stuff too. Phil Collins solo stuff doesn't do much for me but there are some gems in there. Easy Lover being the most obvious.

As to him being a cunt. Almost all the real evidence says otherwise. Most of the anecdotes I've heard about him speak massively in his favour. He's generally seen as a good egg and very generous with his time. Helping the various early Genesis tribute acts out with what they're doing and even joining one of them on stage at a very small gig in front of only a hundred or so people. The Beta Band wanted to cover Sussudio and Phil was very up for it and even offered to drum for them. Alas it never happened.

A little known fact is Phil Collins was a very early supporter of Rockstar Games as he's family friends with the Houser brothers who started it up. I'm pretty sure he's still a share holder in them hence the fact there's Phil's music in most of the GTA sound tracks and he appeared as himself in Vice City Stories.   

Led Zepp at Live Aid - LZ had been rehearsing with Chic's Tony Thompson for a few weeks beforehand.  When Robert Plant (who had employed Phil as drummer on his solo albums) heard that Phil was going to be at the Philly concert too, Plant asked him at pretty much the last minute to join them on stage.  Phil has always said that of course he was gonna say yes, but at the same time what a crazy idea it was cos not only had he not done any rehearsing with the band or of the songs, there was also a second drummer with whom he had not had any previous experience.  Apart from anything else, watch the footage again on YouTube, and you'll soon realise that however bad the rest of the band sounds, by far the worst culprit was Jimmy Page.

Yes it still surprises me to this day that Led Zep fans blame him for what happened at Live Aid and I've always thought it showed a pretty unpleasant side to Page and Plant that they've continued to blame him all these years. Its no secret that Jimmy Page was smacked out of his head during the gig. Collins has said a roadie had to keep on coming on stage to wipe Page's drool from his guitar pick ups between songs.

[Gulftastic]

I hate his habit of making pop videos that seem to have a finished product in mind, but are actually made up of bits of 'the making of...' video. 'Easy Lover' is one example, 'I Can't Dance..' another.

[xxxx xxx x xxx]

"Both Sides Of The Story"....Christ!

But anyone who played on "Supper's Ready" can't be all bad.

[biniput]

His musical ability could have blind spots and he could help churn out work that was less than satisfactory. When Anni-Frid Lyngstad decided to make a solo album after ABBA split she decided to hire Collins as producer after she heard "in the air tonight". You would think that a decent album would fly out of this collaboration but no. Some tracks were ok but a few where not so good and 1 or 2 where shite. Here is possibly the worst in which he duets with Fridan (her "nick-name" amongst certain fans) on the "Here we'll stay" track:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1_9gTu2utY

Not the best song of all time. In order to somehow justify how this thing came into being listen to his understanding of the track:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWMlABulPE0

At 1:10 into this he states that the above track (here we'll stay) is "black music". Yeah Phil bang on there.................