Zappagories

[doppelkorn]

Bit of fun for Zappa fans, both casual and dedicated. This could be shit.

I'd class myself as casual. I've probably got/heard about a third of his albums according to wiki, which is a fair few. It might be interesting to group his output into categories so new listeners have some idea where to start, or casual listeners know which bits to attack/avoid.

Here goes. I can only categorise the stuff I know but all of this is up for HEATED DEBATE

Psych hippy stuff
Freak Out!
Absolutely Free
We're Only in It for the Money

Slickly produced, slightly odd sounding, lyrically weird stuff with highly skilled musicians
Over-Nite Sensation   
Apostrophe (')
One Size Fits All
Bongo Fury
Zoot Allures

"Offensive" and satirical stuff with less emphasis on musical excitement
Sheik Yerbouti
Joe's Garage

Instrumental stuff I don't fully understand but like
Make a Jazz Noise Here
Hot Rats

[NoSleep]

Psych hippy stuff Early period Mothers of Invention
Freak Out!
Absolutely Free
We're Only in It for the Money

There's a ton more satire in those albums than anything "psyche"[nb]What does this term mean? it's a 21st century term is all I know[/nb] or "hippy"[nb]Anti-hippy, in fact[/nb].
The thing that ties the early albums together is that they are performed by a group, albeit performing the music of Frank Zappa, but nonetheless a group. Some of the members came from the same town as Frank Zappa and the band grew from that.
Also in the above category is:

Mothermania - a compilation "worst of" with alternate and uncensored mixes of tunes from this period, issued in this period (so retaining an "authentic" sound, unlike Zappa's vain attempts to remix this period decades later).
I would also include Lumpy Gravy, Uncle Meat, Burnt Weeny Sandwich and Weasels Ripped My Flesh from this same period.

For me Hot Rats is a cut-off point (a "Frank Zappa" credited album, albeit not the first); anything before is worth listening to, whilst after that I have to become far more selective.

Slickly produced, slightly odd sounding, lyrically weird stuff with highly skilled musicians

I'd add "Roxy & Elsewhere" to this list as a fun, live[nb]Albeit enhanced, later in the studio.[/nb] outing.

Dunno where to stick "200 Motels".

[doppelkorn]

Agree with that.

I only know the three I named pre-Hot Rats as I have them as a box set.

And, yes, anti-hippy would be a better description. I used the term psych as a cop-out, being a catch all term for "weird stuff from the 60s with bright coloured record sleeves". Don't judge me!

[The Region Legion]

We can add another category while we're at it:

Indefensible Toss

Just Another Band From L.A.
The Man From Utopia
Thing-Fish


Oh, and Sheik Yerbouti doesn't deserve to be lumped in with Joe's Garage, despite how closely the latter followed. It's probably his last truly great album and more accurately placed within the period that begins with Overnite Sensation.

[Pepotamo1985]

Indefensible Toss

The Man From Utopia

I think that record's alright. Dangerous Kitchen & Jazz Discharge Party Hats are irascible, but aside from that there are some cracking tracks on it.

You're right on the other two, though. Thing-Fish in particular. Bizarrely, that album seems to be very popular amongst hardcore Zappa fans; I used to post on the official FZ forum, and many newcomers to Zappa would ask for recommendations - Thing-Fish was repeatedly touted as a 'great introductory Zappa record'. I quickly realised everyone who posted there was insane, and left.

Sheik Yerbouti...probably his last truly great album

You Are What You Is is glaring at you.

[doppelkorn]

Joe's Garage is ace as well

[Don_Preston]

Posthumous beauties

Imaginary Diseases (Petite Wazoo)
Wazoo
Carnegie Hall (1971)
FZ:OZ (1975)
Hammersmith Odeon (1977)
Road Tapes 1 (1968)
Road Tapes 2 (1973)

[NoSleep]

Thing-Fish in particular. Bizarrely, that album seems to be very popular amongst hardcore Zappa fans; I used to post on the official FZ forum, and many newcomers to Zappa would ask for recommendations - Thing-Fish was repeatedly touted as a 'great introductory Zappa record'.

Is that the one that sounds like a MIDIfile played in Quicktime?

[Pepotamo1985]

Nah, you're thinking of Frank's synclavier output - Francesco Zappa, Jazz From Hell and Civilization Phase III.

Thing-Fish is a three LP rock opera. It's...bizarre, and not in a good way.

[the science eel]

I can't think of an artist who more comprehensibly straddles the quality spectrum.

[doppelkorn]

I've not heard anything by him that's really bad but then again I only try and seek out the good stuff.

Is Thing Fish really, really awful then?

[NoSleep]

I'm intrigued myself.

[Pepotamo1985]

Listen to it in full - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfD2_tXiXeo.

I found it pretty fucking interminable - it clocks in at an hour and a half, and is largely comprised of Ike Willis chatting rubbish in a 'comedy' "mammmmy" voice over older Zappa material (at best, it adds nothing to the songs, and at worst, it outright ruins them - either way, you'll find yourself wanting to stop listening to Thing-Fish, and visit the source album), and the new material is a complete mess.

With the visual element (it was intended to be a Broadway Musical, eventually), it might be vaguely entertaining. There is some good satire and social commentary on it, but you could always read the lyrics instead.

EDIT: Listening to it now for the first time in almost 10 years, and actually it doesn't seem that bad. My original points still stand, though. It's a shame, because a Zappa parody of Broadway musicals could be great if done correctly, but Frank didn't write any Broadway style songs for it, at all.

I also find his sexual lyrics pretty interminable at the best of times, and there entire album is porno songs from beginning to end. Your own mileage may vary...

As an interesting aside, Zappa produced a 'Thing-Fish' photoshoot for Hustler - http://www.zappateers.com/scrapbook/thumbnails.php?album=61 - which led to the magazine being boycotted, hate mail, death threats, and many cancelled subscriptions. Heh.

[great_badir]

I can't think of an artist who more comprehensibly straddles the quality spectrum.

Prince.

But otherwise yeah, there aren't many.  There are also very few artists who have played so many different genres of music.  You name it, FZ pretty much played it.


I'm a massive Zappa fan and have almost everything, but I find all the synclavier stuff, most Phlo and Eddie and a lot of his 80s-on output unlistenable.  And, whilst I think Chad Wackerman is a brilliant drummer, I absolutely HATE the drum sound he had when playing with Zappa.  Even the acoustic parts of his kit sounded like digital drums.  Awful.  (Acknowledge that FZ may have been to blame for that choice).

But yeah - those categories broadly nail his oeuvre.

[Pepotamo1985]

I'm a massive Zappa fan and have almost everything, but I find all the synclavier stuff, most Phlo and Eddie and a lot of his 80s-on output unlistenable.

I never got on with the Synclavier stuff, and never will (although Jazz From Hell does have its moments).

I can vaguely understand why Zappa was taken with it; what with all the trouble he had throughout his career with musicians (in particular classical musicians), being able to feed music he wrote into a machine, and that machine playing it without argument, was probably highly attractive. That doesn't detract from it sounding, as NoSleep said, like a Midi file played on Quicktime. I understand that technology was limited at the time, but I find it astonishing that someone as forward thinking as Frank could possibly have ever thought that it wouldn't age terribly in a matter of a few months. Especially given how much derision was heaped on the 1984 tour for Wackerman's electronic drum kit. The synclavier albums even sounds rough and somehow even more dated than much of the electronically crafted music of the time.

[Petey Pate]

This chronology does a good job of categorising Zappa's different periods:

1965-1969 The Mothers Of Invention

The original Mothers.  Musically, Zappa's most ground breaking, innovative and ambitious, as well as possibly his most influential.  The satire is more pointed and biting, and the humour less scatological and fixated on sex.  Worth hearing all of it.  Don't forget Lumpy Gravy.

1970-1972 Hot Rats/Mothers/Wazoo

Mostly comprises the reformed Mothers with Flo & Eddie in addition to 200 Motels and Zappa's wheelchair bound jazz period.  I actually prefer both Waka Jawaka and Grand Wazoo to Hot Rats.  George Duke enters the picture and his contributions are a highpoint.

1973-1975 Discreet

'Slickly produced, slightly odd sounding, lyrically weird stuff with highly skilled musicians.'  The songs get more pornographic, though the Roxy band are perhaps the best line-up Zappa ever had.  Don't miss You Can't Do That On Stage Any More Vol. 2 which is a full concert of theirs recorded in Helsinki.

1976-1980 Zappa/Barking Pumpkin

Pretty much the period which Dopplekorn defines as '"Offensive" and satirical stuff with less emphasis on musical excitement'.  Agree with Pepotamo1985 that a good cut off point is You Are What You Is.

1981-1984 Them Or Us

At this point, Zappa's 'rock' albums and live shows are just going through the motions in order to fund other projects. The dawn of the dreaded synclavier and the PMRC.

1985-1993 The Last Tour

The ill-fated final 1988 tour, which wasn't too bad judging by the albums which document it (Make a Jazz Noise Here, The Best Band You've Never Heard in Your Life and Broadway the Hard Way), but not good starting points.  Same goes for the orchestral Yellow Shark album.

[Jawaka]

Posthumous beauties

Imaginary Diseases (Petite Wazoo)
Wazoo
Carnegie Hall (1971)
FZ:OZ (1975)
Hammersmith Odeon (1977)
Road Tapes 1 (1968)
Road Tapes 2 (1973)

Trance-Fusion is lovely too.

... Instrumental Compilations ?
Guitar
Trance-Fusion

[Petey Pate]

Non-Zappa albums featuring Zappa

Wild Man Fischer - An Evening with Wild Man Fischer (produced by Zappa, also plays percussion)
Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band - Trout Mask Replica (produced)
GTO's - Permanent Damage (produced)
Jeff Simmons - Lucille Has Messed My Mind Up (plays guitar on a couple of tracks)
Jean-Luc Ponty - King Kong (composed and arranged, also plays guitar on one track)
John Lennon/Yoko Ono - Some Time In New York City (the live jam is with the Flo and Eddie incarnation of the Mothers)
George Duke - Feel (plays guitar under a pseudonym)
Ruben And The Jets - For Real! (produced)
Grand Funk Railroad - Good Singin' Good Playin' (produced, also provides guitar solo and vocals)
Robert Charlebois - Swing Charlebois Swing (guitar solo and arrangements on one track)
Flint - Flint (Zappa plays guitar on a couple of tracks)
V.A. - The Nova Convention (reads William S. Burroughs' "The Talkin' Asshole" - available for download on ubuweb)
L. Shankar - Touch Me There (produced and provides guitar and vocals)
V.A. - Music From the 21st Century (plays tambourine and provides engineering assistance on the Don Preston track "On The Throne Of Saturn")
Dweezil Zappa - Having a Bad Day (produced)

[thepuffpastryhangman]

Live In New York seems to be forgotten.

And Tinseltown Rebellion is probably the best line-up of any album.

Brown Moses is an excellent track. Folks probably recommend Thing Fish because it is so broad and there's a lot going on. It touches everything from the doo-wap of Ruben and the Jets right up to the synclavier noises. Ike is fucking awesome throughout too.

Sleep Dirt's got a couple of top tunes.

As for categories, in my head there was a category 'the ones with Steve (Vai) and Vinnie' and another 'Ike Willis albums'.

[Pepotamo1985]

Live In New York seems to be forgotten.

Not by me - I fucking love that LP.

And Tinseltown Rebellion is probably the best line-up of any album.

Shame the recording of the gig is so poor, and you can't actually hear any of them playing.

Sleep Dirt's got a couple of top tunes.

The updated CD release with Wackerman's drumming and Thana Harris' vocals is a complete fucking waste of time.

Thankfully, all those tracks got their proper release on Läther.

Which reminds me, I should dig that out and listen to it again. In fact, the period between Roxy and Sleep Dirt - the mid to late 70s - might be my favourite run of albums by Zappa.

[thepuffpastryhangman]

Yes, not the shit vocal version of Sleep Dirt.

Weren't they - Sleep Dirt, Orchestral Favourites and Studio Tan - made in the early 70s and held by Warner (or whoever) following some dispute? Sure, they were released in '78,'79 but IIRC, and from the compositional nature, they're early 70s albums.

I've not played Tinseltown for 20 years, but the line-up, the line-up!

[Pepotamo1985]

You're basically right - and yeah, they were all recorded in the mid-70s (although Let Me Take You To The Beach from Studio Tan was recorded during the Hot Rats sessions).

Effectively, Warner wanted 4 albums from Zappa to complete his contract, so he put together a 4-LP epic (Lather). They said it constituted one album, and he tried to take it elsewhere. Warner got pissy and issued the individual parts separately without his permission (and without him having any input on the cover art) as Orchestral Favourites, Studio Tan, Sleep Dirt and Zappa In New York.

In a way, I'm glad they were issued separately, because not all the material from Zappa In New York would've been represented on the Lather, and I much prefer the mixes of the New York material which appear on ZINY - they're sound way more vivid and grander.

And yeah, it grieves me that the Tinseltown lineup is so cracking when the album sounds so sub-par. It's all very empty and limp sounding.

[great_badir]

Count me in as another New York fan.  I dread to think how much of it IS actually overdubbed (beyond FZ's admittance to the guitar solo in Approximate/Purple Lagoon in the liner notes, I mean), but damn there is some amazing music on there.  I think it represents a pretty good balance between humour and the high foreheaded stuff you can't tap your foot to.

[doppelkorn]

Am I the only one who likes the Discreet era the best?

Really good production values (ahead of its time), funky as hell musicians, amusing lyrics which haven't yet evolved into "whoah I said golden shower and come don't try and censor me" territory.

[Petey Pate]

Am I the only one who likes the Discreet era the best?

Really good production values (ahead of its time), funky as hell musicians, amusing lyrics which haven't yet evolved into "whoah I said golden shower and come don't try and censor me" territory.

It's easily my second favourite after the original Mothers.  Check out George Duke's solo albums from the same period, there's a fair amount of crossover with Zappa musicians on them, even Zappa himself in one case.  This album features Ruth Underwood, bassist Tom Fowler and Johnny 'Guitar' Watson[nb]who was the reason why Zappa played guitar to begin with[/nb].  One of the tracks should sound familiar if you're a Madvillain fan too.

Nah, you're thinking of Frank's synclavier output - Francesco Zappa, Jazz From Hell and Civilization Phase III.

I listened to Francesco Zappa recently, which I previously regarded as his all time worst, but now I think it's at least the best of the synclavier trilogy.  It is bland and boring, but the cold, robotic synclavier sound actually works much better in the context of appropriating old classical music rather than programming new compositions.  It reminds me of the music from Lemmings, or Wendy Carlos' soundtrack to A Clockwork Orange.

That considered, my least favourite Zappa album is probably Jazz From Hell.

[doppelkorn]

funky as hell musicians

Just to add to this, I was listening to Overnite Sensation a couple of days ago and it really reminded me of Parliament/Funkadelic in places. Mainly in the little spoken bits quite low in the mix. I'll try and draw some specific examples later when I have a chance to listen in more detail.

[Don_Preston]

I wish they'd hurry the fuck up and release the 1969 gig from Appleton. I think he always wanted to do something with those recordings. Plus, some bastard has lost the bootleg CD I loaned him.

[Petey Pate]

Just to add to this, I was listening to Overnite Sensation a couple of days ago and it really reminded me of Parliament/Funkadelic in places.

Funny that, as 'I am the Slime' has featured in a number of George Clinton live shows. 

9:56 in.

[great_badir]

I wish they'd hurry the fuck up and release the 1969 gig from Appleton. I think he always wanted to do something with those recordings. Plus, some bastard has lost the bootleg CD I loaned him.

I know it's not the same but, in case you don't know, it's on YouTube.  Yeah, it's a great show and, in my opinion, better than the Vancouver show from '68 that was officially released a little while ago.

[Bingo Fury]

No love for Civilisation Phase III among the Synclavier albums, then? I haven't listened to it for years, admittedly, but when it first came out I listened to the whole thing lying on the floor with my eyes closed, giving it my full attention and it was quite the proverbial "movie for the ears".

I wish they'd hurry the fuck up and release the 1969 gig from Appleton. I think he always wanted to do something with those recordings. Plus, some bastard has lost the bootleg CD I loaned him.

Would be great to have a spiffy official release of that. I'll have to rummage through my collection and see if my bootleg copy survived the various flat moves/hard drive crashes of the past few years. I was building up a nice collection of original Mothers live stuff before the accidental destruction of my previous computer, with the intention of burning off a compilation CD of the best versions. There was a nice recording from Paris, I recall ... All wiped now, and since my Zappa obsession peaked a few years ago I don't know if I'd have the energy and determination to seek out and download them all again.

I'd also been collecting as many of the Europe 82 gigs as I could, mainly on a quest for a really well-recorded version of "Let's Move To Cleveland", though I never found one that really made the grade. My feelings for the 1982 line-up are pretty much the same as Puffy's for the Tinseltown Rebellion bands (most of the players overlap) and I can't stand the thought that there are digital-quality recordings of unreleased songs by them. In six volumes of YCDTOSA, they couldn't find space for a 1982 "Cleveland"?