The Hobbit III

[tookish]

My concerns have been mounting since the decision to change the title from There & Back Again to The Battle of the Five Armies. Because that (and PJ's love of bloodshed!) tells me that this film is going to be a bloated, probably somewhat tedious, fantasy war film - lots of swordfights, several unrealistic Big Boss scenes, with a few slow-mo death scenes to break it up. The second film did nothing to assuage my fears about where this trilogy is going.

trailer is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgNNb8bm_b8


The inclusion of The Steward of Gondor was really fucking unfair because Pippin's singing makes it impossible for me to judge the rest of the trailer. Too busy snivelling like a child.

So far, I'm thinking that it looks fucking beautiful in terms of the cinematography, but I am really really concerned about how centred on the 'glory of war' this trilogy is becoming. If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world!

[Danger Man]

Thanks to my WETA contacts I know how this ends.

Spoiler alert

Everybody dies.

[close]

[BlodwynPig]

It did nothing to sausage my fears either

[BritishHobo]

I hope just before the battle starts, Martin Freeman decides to fuck it off and go have some lovely hobbit adventures in a forest somewhere. Just for a bit. That's all I ask, Peter Jackson.

[tookish]

In the interests of being fair, I'm not sure that these films are being 'done wrong', or even badly per se - although I think some scenes have been pretty obviously hacky and bloated - but I think the main problem I have is that it's being taken in a direction that literally any fantasy film could go in. I accept that The Hobbit is not totally original, it's not unparalleled - but it is memorable and iconic, and I think the characters and storyline have their own incredibly important place in literature.

The most recent film had very little of the humour and heart of the first, and not much is left in place of what the writers and directors are taking out. The fight scenes are repetitive, and for me, pretty tedious. And the things that make The Hobbit magical are being glossed over - the wit, the message, the universe, even the characters. I never expected or even really wanted an exact page-to-screen replica of the book - there's so much in Tolkien's universe that is frankly unfilmable. What I did hope for was that the film would be true to the characters and world I fell in love with as a tiny tookling.

[Phil_A]

That cart-chase bit that appears about a minute in - what the fuck is that supposed to be? Not only does it look amazingly bad coming from an effects studio that used to set the industry standard for CG effects, but it also means we're due yet another tedious, over-extended runaround like the Misty Mountains and Smaug's lair bits in the last two films. I genuinely do wonder, are sequences like those included to fulfill a certain amount of contractually obliged 3D content, or does Jackson genuinely think these are good and necessary rather than useless, fussy padding?

I also said "OH FUCK OFF!" When Legolas appeared. I think I'll say it again, for emphasis: FUCK OFF LEGOLAS, YOU SHIT CUNT.

[BlodwynPig]

[tookish]

I think I'm going to take a bottle of white spirit to the cinema, and drink every time:

1. Thorin breathily intones "Azog".
2. CGI Legolas prances around shooting a thousand orcs at once.
3. It looks like it's all over for the good guys, but then a SURPRISE NEW ARMY arrives.
4. Martin Freeman does his Tim-from-The-Office exasperated look.
5. Somebody dies in slow-motion.
6. A really interesting scene or character is passed over in to make way for a shit, formulaic battle scene.

I'll be dead by the time credits roll, which frankly will be a fucking blessing.

[Glebe]

I'm going with your thread, Tookish (loyalty, honour and a willing heart... you can ask no more than that!).

I actually really like the trailer, it's pretty epic for a teaser. From what Peter Jackson has been saying it apparently won't be one big battle scene, sounds like there'll be plenty of verbal conflict and cloak and dagger goings-on, plus they're apparently gonna focus on character and emotion rather than try and outdo previous Middle-Earth battles (there has been some concern about the scale of the Battle of Five Armies, obviously in the book it isn't anything as big or world-threatening as the War of the Ring).

Was gonna post some pics and stuff that have been released, but fuck it, you can find all that stuff on or via TheOneRing.net... there's Comic-Con footage, interviews etc. on YouTube. So have a search yourselves, not bothered mate off to smoke pipe weed!

Just wanna mention a couple of things about The Desolation of Smaug Extended Edition... PJ says in an interview here that it'll about 25mins longer. This is possibly the cover for the 3D Blu-ray, in any case it's already up for pre-order on Amazon. Also, here's a couple of videos of production blog stuff featuring scenes that may make it into the extended cut:

The Desolation of Smaug - Extended Edition.

The Desolation of Smaug - Extended Edition Part 2.

[Jijifranko]

I think I'm going to take a bottle of white spirit to the cinema, and drink every time:

3. It looks like it's all over for the good guys, but then a SURPRISE NEW ARMY arrives.

I play a similar game during Game of Thrones, except I replace SURPRISE NEW ARMY with DIREWOLF.

Of course, I say a "similar game", but all I do is make sure to bring (to the living room) my power to scream "YYEEEESSS!" obnoxiously. As a "poor" post-grad who can't buy too many drinks, it's a sacrifice I have to make.

[BlodwynPig]

I'm going with your thread, Tookish (loyalty, honour and a willing heart... you can ask no more than that!).

I actually really like the trailer, it's pretty epic for a teaser.

GRRRRRRRRR
NOTHING IS EPIC ANYMORE BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS EPIC...FROM A CGI TEENAGER BATTLING DRAGONS TO A TEENAGER FALLING OVER TO SOMEONE BUYING INSURANCE IN A DULL MIDLANDS TOWN
GRRRRRRRRR

[Thomas]

This thread has my blessing.

[Bored of Canada]

This thread has my blessing.

You've got no ambition. No drive, Thomas. You coulda been a thread setter, but you're doomed to just be a follower.
Always the Mugwort; Never the Baggins.


I used to have some respect for you. No longer.

[tookish]

I'm going with your thread, Tookish (loyalty, honour and a willing heart... you can ask no more than that!).

I actually really like the trailer, it's pretty epic for a teaser. From what Peter Jackson has been saying it apparently won't be one big battle scene, sounds like there'll be plenty of verbal conflict and cloak and dagger goings-on, plus they're apparently gonna focus on character and emotion rather than try and outdo previous Middle-Earth battles (there has been some concern about the scale of the Battle of Five Armies, obviously in the book it isn't anything as big or world-threatening as the War of the Ring).

It's great to hear that there will be an emphasis on character and emotion rather than on slashy stabby bloody nonsense. Despite my negative posts, I'm very willing to give this film a chance and I hope I'm not disappointed - my concerns mostly arise from how incredibly disappointing the majority of the second film was - far too many tedious, copy-paste battle scenes for a film that should have contained the majority of the fantasy-adventure element of the series. Beorn, the spiders, Mirkwood in general - they all fell by the wayside in scenes that absolutely did not capture the story, seemingly to make room for dwarves fighting in barrels and smelting a giant fucking statue out of gold.

[BlodwynPig]

It's great to hear that there will be an emphasis on character and emotion rather than on slashy stabby bloody nonsense. Despite my negative posts, I'm very willing to give this film a chance and I hope I'm not disappointed - my concerns mostly arise from how incredibly disappointing the majority of the second film was - far too many tedious, copy-paste battle scenes for a film that should have contained the majority of the fantasy-adventure element of the series. Beorn, the spiders, Mirkwood in general - they all fell by the wayside in scenes that absolutely did not capture the story, seemingly to make room for dwarves fighting in barrels and smelting a giant fucking statue out of gold.

2014 for you. Modern ennui. Cunts.

Come, gentle Tookish, sit down here by the hearth and warm thyself with a hearty mug of ale and a roaring fire. Perhaps you would care for a pipe of the finest long bottom leaf? Ah, here is a veritable tome for you to read as the night draws in around the cottage. An adventure awaits just the other side of dawn.

*Blaring dance music*

"We buy any pipes, WE BUY ANY PIPES, WE B U Y A N Y P I P E S DOT COM"

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/291111040464?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108

*Runs screaming into the void*

[The Masked Unit]

These three films, the three LOTR films; are they not all basically the same? Probably no need to see this one really if you've seen the rest.

[Blumf]

I've seen a bootleg. It's aces, they all form into a Bilbotron and start beating up Smaugzilla with lasers!! Afterwards the dwarfs lay down some brutal minimal techno beats back at Space-town/Esgalatic

Also, there's Ewoks.

[Danger Man]

I'm glad that Tookish has finally realised that Peter Jackson is shit...but also a little sad.

Here's a quiz to cheer you up.

http://www.theguardian.com/books/quiz/2014/jul/29/jrr-tolkien-trivia-quiz-60th-anniversary-fellowship-of-the-ring

I got 7/10 which was a shock as all my answers were guesses.

Get less than 7, Tookish, and I become the forum Tolkeen fan.

[tookish]

I'm glad that Tookish has finally realised that Peter Jackson is shit...but also a little sad.

Maybe this is what growing up feels like. I don't like it.

Oh, and also, I got seven as well. Perhaps we can share the title.

[Cerys]

Six.  I am so ashamed.

[Ignatius_S]

I got 8 and it only took me 7 goes.

[BlodwynPig]

I got 10 and I haven't even seen the test

[Sexton Brackets Drugbust]

I got 7 and a whole heap was just guesswork.

If you're concerned about the film glorifying war, Tookish, that trailer certainly seemed to give me the impression they're frowning at Thorin's arrogance and warmongering.

Shame the effects look so shonky, especially - as mentioned - the ice-skating chariot.

[Glebe]

I got 7/10. Bloody annoying questions.

Harking back to Desolation of Smaug again for a mo, couple of excellent observations made on TheOneRing.net forum: when Bilbo is about to tell Gandalf he found 'The Ring' but instead backs out and says he found his courage, it's a call back to something Gandalf says in An Unexpected Journey; "True courage is not about knowing when to take a life, but when to spare one." So Bilbo is kind of hinting at his encounter with Gollum. Also, Bilbo solving the puzzle of the keyhole in the moonlight foreshadows Frodo solving the starlit Doors of Durin puzzle in Fellowship (in was actually Merry who solves this fiendish conundrum in the book, apparently they made it Frodo in the film because the focus of attention had kind of drifted off the lead character at that point).

Okay, enough geeky minutia.

[Treguard of Dunshelm]

I got 9[nb]for mortal men doomed to die[/nb] on my first go, only guessed Q7 (was an educated guess though) and Q9 which I got wrong. I don't have a girlfriend though.

[Old Nehamkin]

I was recently reminded of this bit from the extended edition of The Two Towers and... I'd just forgotten how insanely psychotic Legolas and Gimli's entire arc is. I mean, imagine that exact same scene playing out in an actual war film, as part of a subplot in which two soldiers take sadistic pleasure in competing to see who can kill the most enemy combatants. And then imagine that this subplot was played as a fun, light-hearted bit of comic relief, a bit of buddy-comedy bonding between two loveable misfits. It'd be mental, wouldn't it? I know the orcs are basically all evil because Tolkien was a racialist, but still, should the good guys really be taking such unrestrained joy in systematically murdering people? Should they not like, be above that? It's such a mad, tonally confusing bit of the film to me!

Also, how the fuck is Gimli the dwarf from the olden days meant to have even the slightest conception of what the "nervous system" is? And don't give me that metatextual shit about it being a modern translation from the original elvish or something, because I'm not having it.

[HappyTree]

I've not had the courage to watch any of the Hobbit films yet. Watching the trailer, I thought "Oh so that's what Kate from Lost is doing now" and "that CGI must have been done like 10 years ago and is just an indicative library shot".

[Jack Shaftoe]

Also, how the fuck is Gimli the dwarf from the olden days meant to have even the slightest conception of what the "nervous system" is? And don't give me that metatextual shit about it being a modern translation from the original elvish or something, because I'm not having it.

Like that bit is the second Hobbit film where Legolas refers to something as a 'mutant', and it suddenly feels like we're in an Eighties Warhammer adaptation for a moment, and not in a good way. That sort of stuff does really take me out the world for a moment.

[monolith]

I was recently reminded of this bit from the extended edition of The Two Towers and... I'd just forgotten how insanely psychotic Legolas and Gimli's entire arc is. I mean, imagine that exact same scene playing out in an actual war film, as part of a subplot in which two soldiers take sadistic pleasure in competing to see who can kill the most enemy combatants. And then imagine that this subplot was played as a fun, light-hearted bit of comic relief, a bit of buddy-comedy bonding between two loveable misfits. It'd be mental, wouldn't it? I know the orcs are basically all evil because Tolkien was a racialist, but still, should the good guys really be taking such unrestrained joy in systematically murdering people? Should they not like, be above that? It's such a mad, tonally confusing bit of the film to me!

Orcs are worse than paedophile Nazis  though so it's kind of alright I  think.

[Glebe]

Humour and everything is fine, but there are definitely some moments in Jackson's Middle-Earth saga that are just tonally wrong.