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Doctor Who - Series 8 (Part 2)

Started by Serge, August 09, 2014, 09:48:31 PM

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Replies From View

Quote from: biggytitbo on August 10, 2014, 12:41:21 PM
Doesn't hurt that she's in some of the best Doctor Who episodes ever either. Much better than Rose, Donna and Clara.

Oh yeah I remember that one she was in where the Doctor turned into Gollum and at the end he rose up on a purple cloud of guff to forgive the Master.

Stone-cold classic that.

biggytitbo

Quote from: Replies From View on August 10, 2014, 12:45:52 PM
Oh yeah I remember that one she was in where the Doctor turned into Gollum and at the end he rose up on a purple cloud of guff to forgive the Master.

Stone-cold classic that.


That closing 3 parter is amazing apart from that one Jesus bit at the end which is shit.

mycroft

The fact Martha was in some of my favourite episodes ever is what makes my constant forgetting of her even more strange.

That and her lovely bottom.

Replies From View

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on August 10, 2014, 12:44:09 PM
It's a shame she hasn't lived up to the promise of Asylum.. and the Snowmen but I still think it's more to do with the writing.

It's because she can't act.  Elisabeth Sladen didn't need specific words coming out of her mouth to be a compelling companion.  Even when she was silent or in the background her character had presence because of how she was able to perform from one moment to the next.

Clara basically has no presence until she speaks, and then it's just the script.  I was going to say we just get the words as they appear on the page but from the scripts I've read, with words that describe what the characters are feeling and thinking, I'd say Coleman's presence subtracts from the words as written.  She isn't going to suddenly come alive when given a text like Lady Macbeth.  She will always be the acting equivalent of some Silly Putty being stretched and squashed in front of the camera as everyone around her works their socks off to make her seem better than she is.

Replies From View

Quote from: biggytitbo on August 10, 2014, 12:47:43 PM
That closing 3 parter is amazing apart from that one Jesus bit at the end which is shit.

Utopia was good because of the shock Master reveal and how that tied into the Human Nature story.  The rest was quite poor really.

BritishHobo

Quote from: Replies From View on August 10, 2014, 12:53:00 PM
It's because she can't act.  Elizabeth Sladen didn't need specific words coming out of her mouth to be a compelling companion.  Even when she was silent or in the background her character had presence because of how she was able to perform from one moment to the next.

Clara basically has no presence until she speaks, and then it's just the script.  I was going to say we just get the words as they appear on the page but from the scripts I've read, with words that describe what the characters are feeling and thinking, I'd say Coleman's presence subtracts from the words as written.  She isn't going to suddenly come alive when given a text like Lady Macbeth.  She will always be the acting equivalent of some Silly Putty being stretched and squashed in front of the camera as everyone around her works their socks off to make her seem better than she is.

She wasn't bad as the Mary Poppins-esque nanny though, switching back and forth to being the barmaid. Present day Clara is just such a blank, nothing person. She's just 'a modern-day person'. She knows a few things about computers (although even that happened because she got sucked into one), and she had parents, but apart from that she doesn't seem to have any personality or features at all.

Then again, I liked Martha, too. The love stuff was a bit piss-weak, especially since the Doctor was constantly mooning over Rose, like a teenager fresh out of his first relationship, but I thought she developed well, and got to be pretty strong in her own right, without being self-consciously 'kick-ass'. I remember it being the Human Nature/Family of Blood two-parter where I really grew to like her, where she's basically dealing with the situation entirely on her own.

Mark Steels Stockbroker

Martha was a much better attempt at doing an "independent female character" than any previous except Romana. And the latter wasn't human so doesn't really count.

El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: mycroft on August 10, 2014, 12:51:03 PM


That and her lovely bottom.

She definitely comes out on top in that area. It's not enough to hold my interest for multiple seasons though, sadly.

Quote from: Replies From View on August 10, 2014, 12:53:00 PM
It's because she can't act. 

That's just her character though, as far as I can tell. You don't have to be naturalistic to be a Doctor Who character.

biggytitbo

Quote from: Replies From View on August 10, 2014, 12:56:45 PM
Utopia was good because of the shock Master reveal and how that tied into the Human Nature story.  The rest was quite poor really.


Amazing how you are so consistently wrong.

Replies From View

Quote from: BritishHobo on August 10, 2014, 12:59:32 PM
She wasn't bad as the Mary Poppins-esque nanny though, switching back and forth to being the barmaid.

Why did she do that back and forth accent changing stuff, anyway?

BritishHobo

Can someone try and define Clara's character/personality for me without using any Moffat-approved words like 'sassy', 'sexy', 'flirty', etc? Genuinely, as if she was a character in a novel you were working on, and you had to write out a brief character sketch?

I can't, I have absolutely no idea what I'd write.

Replies From View

Quote from: biggytitbo on August 10, 2014, 01:02:35 PM
Amazing how you are so consistently wrong.

You don't like the shock Master reveal in Utopia but you like Gollum Doctor in a cage?  Fair enough.

Thomas

I rewatched Last of the Time Lords recently, and the whole thing is laden with biblical themes, with the power of prayer, the overt crucifixion-flight, the very name of the 'Archangel network', and the Doctor's forgiveness towards the Master. The term 'Time Lord' plays into it fittingly.

BritishHobo

Quote from: Replies From View on August 10, 2014, 01:05:25 PM
Why did she do that back and forth accent changing stuff, anyway?

That's a good point, actually. I assumed maybe the rich man who owned the house wouldn't have hired her if he knew she was all poor and gauchely-accented.

Replies From View

Quote from: BritishHobo on August 10, 2014, 01:08:24 PM
That's a good point, actually. I assumed maybe the rich man who owned the house wouldn't have hired her if he knew she was all poor and gauchely-accented.

I thought it was going to be leading somewhere interesting like she was doing some secret sleuth work before she met the Doctor.  But that strand never went anywhere - it just stopped.

Replies From View

Quote from: Thomas on August 10, 2014, 01:08:12 PM
I rewatched Last of the Time Lords recently, and the whole thing is laden with biblical themes, with the power of prayer, the overt crucifixion-flight, the very name of the 'Archangel network', and the Doctor's forgiveness towards the Master. The term 'Time Lord' plays into it fittingly.

Shittingly, more like.

Replies From View

Quote from: BritishHobo on August 10, 2014, 01:06:59 PM
Can someone try and define Clara's character/personality for me without using any Moffat-approved words like 'sassy', 'sexy', 'flirty', etc? Genuinely, as if she was a character in a novel you were working on, and you had to write out a brief character sketch?

I can't, I have absolutely no idea what I'd write.

I'm happy with my description of her as Silly Putty being squashed and squelched around in front of the camera.

El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: BritishHobo on August 10, 2014, 01:06:59 PM
Can someone try and define Clara's character/personality for me without using any Moffat-approved words like 'sassy', 'sexy', 'flirty', etc? Genuinely, as if she was a character in a novel you were working on, and you had to write out a brief character sketch?

I can't, I have absolutely no idea what I'd write.

But again, that's why she's a breath of fresh air to me. She doesn't have a deep backstory tacked on like the other modern Doctor Who companions have, she's just a cheeky, fun character. Maybe more of her history will be explored in season 8.

BritishHobo

Oh, I'm not thinking about backstory or anything, just her, as she is.

'Feisty' is also off the table.

mycroft

Quote from: Replies From View on August 10, 2014, 01:12:41 PM
I'm happy with my description of her as Silly Putty being squashed and squelched around in front of the camera.

She's the embodiment of what's been described to me as the 'sexy lampshade theory', in that she could be replaced by a lampshade and no difference would be made to the story.

Replies From View

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on August 10, 2014, 01:17:46 PM
But again, that's why she's a breath of fresh air to me. She doesn't have a deep backstory tacked on like the other modern Doctor Who companions have, she's just a cheeky, fun character. Maybe more of her history will be explored in season 8.

Having presence or personality doesn't mean she has to have a Rose-esque backstory, though.  Sarah Jane Smith hardly had a backstory either.  The difference is the ability of the actor.

biggytitbo

She's 'spunky'.

Some teasers for Deep Breath here http://www.sfx.co.uk/2014/08/08/doctor-who-8-01-deep-breath-Spoiler-free-preview

What's the thing from S7? I'm going to hazard a guess and say it's the '
Spoiler alert
woman in the shop
[close]
' from Belles of St John.




El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: BritishHobo on August 10, 2014, 01:18:34 PM
Oh, I'm not thinking about backstory or anything, just her, as she is.

'Feisty' is also off the table.

Well, that's her character though, feisty, sassy, etc. There are moments where her vulnerability is shown though, and for me it has more of an effect due to her usually being so rambunctious. I thought the moments with her and old Matt Smith in his last ep. were quite moving and subtly acted.

HappyTree

I would describe Clara as: stoic, quizzical, bemused, distant, unphazed, 6th form drama student

biggytitbo

Seems like the 2nd episode has leaked now.

BritishHobo

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on August 10, 2014, 01:32:24 PM
Well, that's her character though, feisty, sassy, etc.

BZZT.

(That's my big buzzer noise.)

I just feel like feisty/sassy is the kind of vague term that can be applied to any and every female companion. It's just indistinct enough to cover the general form of an attractive woman who can be funny and tough from time to time. Which is most women.

'Spunky' is also unacceptable, as are 'mad', and 'brilliant'. Sorry, biggy. Have another go.

Deanjam

Quote from: Replies From View on August 10, 2014, 01:08:04 PM
You don't like the shock Master reveal in Utopia but you like Gollum Doctor in a cage?  Fair enough.

[nb]Wrasslin' joke[/nb]

Quote from: biggytitbo on August 10, 2014, 01:29:23 PM
She's 'spunky'.

They're all spunky by the time ... etc


And Karen was definitely still in Doctor Who when she joined Twitter. It was Arthur Darvill who persuaded her to join while on set.

Quote from: biggytitbo on August 10, 2014, 01:50:04 PM
Seems like the 2nd episode has leaked now.

Then today I shall watch the second story of series eight,
Spoiler alert
The Mind of Evil
[close]
.

El Unicornio, mang

It was leaked a month ago. It's black and white/watermarked/missing fx like ep 1 though.

Replies From View

I've been wondering whether Billy Hanshaw was involved in making the series 8 title sequence or the official version was simply "based on" (as the credits in the episode 1 script phrase it) his original concept.

Visiting http://billyhanshaw.co.uk currently only leads to a showreel video and a message saying that his site will be relaunched on 23rd August, and "in the meantime I'd like to thank Steven Moffat, Brian Minchin, Nerys, Sue and all the team at BBC Wales".

So I guess he was involved in making the new sequence?  Or they paid him money for the concept?  It certainly doesn't seem that they just ripped him off, which was one of the thoughts I had.

For anybody who's wanting to see the official leaked titles (filmed from a camera in a cinema with kids talking and clapping over it) but can no longer find a working link:  http://www.thehiveforum.co.uk/leakedtitles.mp4