The New Cricket Thread That Is Not The Old Cricket Thread

[BlodwynPig]

Disgusting pile of crap. Relegate them to whatever wasteland Bangladesh and East Timor play in.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Don't be so jealous of IPL.
MS Dhoni, when asked if some of the players might want to miss the IPL and work on their Test games

Aug 17, 2014

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

134

Number of runs for Virat Kohli in this series, making it the second-lowest aggregate by a top-four batsman having played at least 10 innings.

[weirdbeard]

They're the most powerful cricket nation in the world, and they don't give a shit about Test cricket any more. As someone who has very little passion for the limited overs form of the game, that money-grabbing-first attitude, combined with their passionless Test performances makes my blood boil.

[Nobody Soup]

I don't think it's quite they don't give a shit, but it does seem like they perhaps can't be arsed with it being as diffifult as it is, it seems as soon as this went 1-1 they just went "fuck off, I can't be arsed being away from home for so long and having to put in all this effort."

[Harry Badger]

I read an interesting comment earlier comparing this series to the 2000 West Indies tour, which pretty much marked the end of West Indies as a test force. I doubt whether that will happen with India but they have been a disgrace from the third test onwards.

[Mr Eggs]

They're the most powerful cricket nation in the world, and they don't give a shit about Test cricket any more. As someone who has very little passion for the limited overs form of the game, that money-grabbing-first attitude, combined with their passionless Test performances makes my blood boil.

Laughable suggestions to remedy the long game shortcomings of this India team on TMS did include getting their young batters to come to play in England for Northern County teams.

FOR FUCK ALL MONEY? Get bent.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Fallout continues- Fletcher getting hammered in India. To an extent rightly so but I tend to agree with Gavaskar's comment:

"If you do not want to be playing Test cricket for India, quit. Just play limited-overs cricket. You should not be embarrassing your country like that."
Former India captain Sunil Gavaskar

No side scores 483 on a wicket that's too unfairly green for subcontinent teams. India should've been aiming for 300 in the second innings to prove some backbone.

Making the last generation look like titans.

[biggytitbo]

Ian Botham's column is astonishing today.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I bet you can't eat three!

[rjd2]

I don't get how Fletcher is still in a job at this moment. They were trashed last time in England and Australia in 2011 and while  they were  competitive at times they still won zero tests in SA and NZ. Now this and they are probably going to get killed in Australia.

I understand its white ball cricket which is India's passion, but was he ever that bothered about that format when at England? Coincidentally,  apart from the champions trophy in England not done much in that format either.  They got whitewashed in NZ and SA, and were probably more competitive in both test series!

He will probably stay for another few months, get trashed in Australia and I don't see how they win the ODI world cup and he will be gone much richer while Indians will wonder how such a ruthless and power hungry board allowed him to stay in his position for so long after achieving fuck all.

Hilarious when you really analyse it.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Cricket coaching is so much less ruthless than football management- you really can dine out on doing one good international job for the rest of your career. I bet Flower is probably seen as the number one hottest property in cricket coaching when in reality his methods were short-termist and led to chronic burnout and half the team leaving because they couldn't even stand the sport anymore or their teammates.

Fletcher was brought in to ensure the transition from Sehwag/Dravid/VVS/Tendulkar went as painlessly as possible and yet I can't imagine how it could've got any worse- abysmal away form, players clearly playing way under their ability level, losing to England at home which should be inexcusable, dodgy selection- Gambhir, Binny brought in undeservedly while Aaron, Yadav and Ashwin were misused or just ignored.

There were clear explanations for England's awful Ashes down under with the bat. Australia bowled brilliantly while our team had reached the end of the road. The two coincided with spectacular results. It was always clear to me Anderson would come back fitter and back to normal, that Broad was now a threat in all conditions, that England had capable batsmen coming in and talent like Stokes and Jordan. Something to hold onto.

I think England will have a good chance against Australia next year. Australia have some serious injury worries and all the naysayers are assuming old men and young crocks will both be fit and firing. Meanwhile the others like Pattinson and Bird didn't show themselves unplayable last time out. Whatever people say about Johnson, he's had two golden spells with the ball in his whole career, and was wretched in England. Who knows whether that one will turn up. The way to play him has always remained the same- see out the quality 'one day' overs if he's on target, and attack anything loose. Then go at him during the last 2/3 overs of his spells. If 2009 Johnson turns up in England, Ballance will ruin him. Meanwhile their batting is still going to be suspect? Are Haddin and Watson going to be playing? Is Hughes going to have another crack? Has Marsh been ditched? Has anyone new done anything? It's Warner, Clarke and Smith who are going to make the runs, and if they fail?

[The Duck Man]

134

Number of runs for Virat Kohli in this series, making it the second-lowest aggregate by a top-four batsman having played at least 10 innings.

Who had the lowest?

It was Peter Fulton, wasn't it? It's always Peter Fulton.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

From memory it was another Indian from the 70s, not a recognisable name.

I always just assume it would be a low batting score from West Indies vs Anyone Else in the 1980s.

[Andy147]

Chandu Sarwate (100) for India v Australia in 1946-7.

[rjd2]

There were clear explanations for England's awful Ashes down under with the bat. Australia bowled brilliantly while our team had reached the end of the road. The two coincided with spectacular results. It was always clear to me Anderson would come back fitter and back to normal, that Broad was now a threat in all conditions, that England had capable batsmen coming in and talent like Stokes and Jordan. Something to hold onto.

I think England will have a good chance against Australia next year. Australia have some serious injury worries and all the naysayers are assuming old men and young crocks will both be fit and firing. Meanwhile the others like Pattinson and Bird didn't show themselves unplayable last time out. Whatever people say about Johnson, he's had two golden spells with the ball in his whole career, and was wretched in England. Who knows whether that one will turn up. The way to play him has always remained the same- see out the quality 'one day' overs if he's on target, and attack anything loose. Then go at him during the last 2/3 overs of his spells. If 2009 Johnson turns up in England, Ballance will ruin him. Meanwhile their batting is still going to be suspect? Are Haddin and Watson going to be playing? Is Hughes going to have another crack? Has Marsh been ditched? Has anyone new done anything? It's Warner, Clarke and Smith who are going to make the runs, and if they fail?

Australia will need to keep Harris fit, he is injured again, and you would think one more and his career is done. He will be back for the Indian test tour which luckily for Australia, he may not be needed to much if India offer the same resistance they did towards the end in England.

If Harris was to miss the Ashes, its massive, he is a wicket taker, who takes wickets at the top and can keep it really tight if needed. If he were to miss then they may be in trouble. Pattinson is very good but another crock, Starc is nowhere as brittle, but he is a bit like Finn, good but if you get on top of him he can panic and bowl some trash. I don't think he would be a great partner for Mitch because Mitch if you get on top of him will need others to keep it tight so he can regain his groove in that match. Cummins is dead. 

All rounders they have many, supposedly Lehman isn't a massive fan of Watson, as he wants him to contribute more with the bat. Not sure of the alternatives if he was to bin him. Faulkner's bowling has regressed, he needs lively pitches to be a threat. Henriques is meh personified.

Mitchell Marsh finally seems to have got his act together which is something, turned down the IPL this year to play county cricket, got injured but still a much needed sign of maturity.  Glenn Maxwell may be useful in the SC but not England.


I'd assume Rogers will open next summer and that will be him retired,  not sure about number three, Hughes is a machine in the shield and A tours but rubbish when it really counts and Doolan at three.


Ideally the same team as played their last test. Maybe Siddle back for Pattinson?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/648677.html



England ODI squad announced.

Alastair Cook (capt), Moeen Ali, James Anderson, Gary Ballance, Ian Bell, Jos Buttler, Steven Finn, Harry Gurney, Alex Hales, Chris Jordan, Eoin Morgan, Joe Root, Ben Stokes, James Tredwell, Chris Woakes



Surprised to see no Ravi.

From that assume we get

Cook
Hales
Bell
Morgan
Root
Ali/Stokes/Woakes
Buttler
Jordan
Tredwell
Anderson
Finn


Root will get picked over Ballance I think. Root has averaged 26 in his last 16 ODIS which is poor and his strike rate has been quite low. He will need to show he can offer much more, luckily India's bowling isn't to canny in this format either especially overseas. A perfect chance for him really.

Ballance will feel annoyed as his List A stats are superb and having watched him for Yorkshire he clearly can bat quite aggressively in this format though.

Not quite sure what all rounder they will go for, probably Ali if pushed.

[rjd2]

Best ODI batsman in the world.

https://vine.co/v/M3U9ia13vFH

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

That ODI squad shows very little ambition. Root and Bell? One of them at most. And Root isn't good for more than 4/5 overs with the ball.

Who's going to keep for Australia next year? The 37 year old Haddin? (who may have had sporadic success against England but largely in lost causes and his test career has been mediocre)

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Oh, Jim Troughton's retired after a persistent bad back. I always play as Warwickshire on ICC (only because the first game had Brian Lara and I've sentimentally stuck with it) and Jim did a great job in virtual reality for me as well. Didn't quite cut it for England- thought difficult to see why he was ever picked given his list A record- sad to see a guy go in his mid-30s.

[rjd2]

That ODI squad shows very little ambition. Root and Bell? One of them at most. And Root isn't good for more than 4/5 overs with the ball.

Who's going to keep for Australia next year? The 37 year old Haddin? (who may have had sporadic success against England but largely in lost causes and his test career has been mediocre)

Haddin has done pretty well in Ashes, scored close to 500 last time around, and was always a pest in England. Only issue at that age form can be lost very quickly, he had a shocking series in South Africa after the 5-0 bloodbath. He will be touring UAE soon and will have a home series against India to get back in nick.



http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/334394.html

http://www.espncricinfo.com/Ireland/content/player/6973.html


Those will be the two fighting out for the back up  spot in England. Both from all accounts are very good with the gloves and decent first class numbers. Whiteman has the most hype, Langer and Healy talking him up hugely and apart from been very young, he is also a yorkshire lad!

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Hales has made a nifty start in the 'big' Notts/Warks one day game.

Sorry to say that Gurney got his arse handed to him, though Warks were in a terrific position at that point.

[rjd2]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/249866.html

3rd century in a row for Hales, hope  he does well against India, or at least if he struggles for a few games he doesn't get binned, clearly a serious talent.

[confettiinmyhair]

That ODI squad shows very little ambition.

As usual it's confused thinking. England haven't come close to winning an ODI World Cup since 1992. They've selected Cook to open because of the two white balls, expecting a man, who is still finding his form with the bat, to be able to bat through an innings with all the hitters scoring around him. It's such a limited plan. I'd have gone for two smashers at the top, pick Hales and Jason Roy, Ballance at three. Then slot in Morgan, Root and Buttler. I think Bopara has been unfairly jettisoned, since his bowling is actually pretty effective in limited overs cricket.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Yes, I agree there. I don't rate Bopara's batting or temperament but in one dayers you do regrettably need containing players. I seem to remember our problem of late lay in the bowling department- ie not being able to find 5 bowlers who can all go for less than a run a ball. Bopara is one- certainly never disgraced himself.

The batting lineup will be OK in England where you can chase a target playing safely, but is that side going to regularly score 300+? Surely not. That's what's going to be necessary in the World Cup, and the up coming one dayers should be time to experiment given there's much less to lose. Experimenting apparently means making the most obvious selection in the world.

[The Boston Crab]

Just slog it for fifty overs. Get a load of big hitters and just say you haven't got a clue to every ball and every bowler. Then bowl 300 yorkers.

[rjd2]

Just slog it for fifty overs. Get a load of big hitters and just say you haven't got a clue to every ball and every bowler. Then bowl 300 yorkers.

Finch-Warner-Watson-Clarke- bailey- Maxwell- Haddin-Faulkner- Johnson -2 others

The Aussie side, I think they may approve of your advise! It looks a little more aggressive than any side England may pick.

Just had a look to see who England picked last time around.

Crikey where was the fucking hitters for England?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc_cricket_worldcup2011/engine/current/match/433572.html

[rjd2]

As usual it's confused thinking. England haven't come close to winning an ODI World Cup since 1992. They've selected Cook to open because of the two white balls, expecting a man, who is still finding his form with the bat, to be able to bat through an innings with all the hitters scoring around him. It's such a limited plan. I'd have gone for two smashers at the top, pick Hales and Jason Roy, Ballance at three. Then slot in Morgan, Root and Buttler. I think Bopara has been unfairly jettisoned, since his bowling is actually pretty effective in limited overs cricket.

Ravi been out is silly, very good limited over player and has played a bit down under in the Big Bash. I haven't seen much evidence that Root is a better bat or bowler in this format.

Anyways Barney Ronay had a fine article on Hales this morning.


http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2014/aug/20/alex-hales-england-world-cup-india

A

lex Hales has been portrayed more than once in the last few weeks as a kind of future-cricketer, some gleamingly finessed visitor from the new world. Here he comes now, clanking out of his sponsored DeLorean, England's first real child of Twenty20 (it has, after all, only been 10 years) all set to recalibrate with a few well-timed and largely orthodox attacking strokes the way English cricket goes about developing its elite-level talent. No pressure, then, Alex. Just don't fail, will you. We're all taking a bit of a risk with this.

It is, of course, an unnecessarily onerous way of welcoming any player into a new level of international sport. As Hales prepares to make his one-day international debut for England at Bristol on Monday, a batsman whose basic strength is his boldness and uncluttered eye will do so burdened vaguely by a wider sense that he is obliged not just to make runs but also to do so with feeling – and help provide an answer, six months before the World Cup, to a system that has lagged behind at this level tactically and technically for far too long. Which is certainly one way of preparing a rare, occasionally fragile batting talent for the pressures of international one-day cricket. Albeit not a particularly good one.

Indeed, the real story of Hales' selection is why it has taken so long. Last year, at the Big Bash, Hales stepped off a plane in Melbourne, opened the innings for his new employer the Renegades and swatted a brutal 89 off 52 balls in a televised match in front of a large crowd. When he was out caught on the boundary, the bowler Moisés Henriques could be seen shaking his head in awe as Hales walked off and mouthing the words "Christ, that bloke's a bully!"

"He's unbelievably destructive," Eoin Morgan said this summer. "He's like nobody else we have around." And, of course, the stats already bear it out. Hales is the best Twenty20 batsman England has produced. He has three of the four best English T20 international scores, and access to the kind of breezy, long-levered attacking strokes that can make an opposition look like they simply don't have enough fielders.

Sport is a capricious business and the Nottinghamshire batsman may well go on to fail in 50-over cricket. But what seems unarguable is that he should have had the chance to do so before now, and that the old ability to identify, home in on and decisively dither around the best sporting talent remains intact.

There have been doubts about Hales' defensive technique against the new ball in 50-over cricket, bolstered by some poor form in county cricket before the second half of this summer. In England this notion of what is good and bad technique only ever seems to go one way. If Alastair Cook struggles to find gaps or clear the field in ODIs then this is simply how he plays, a good technique in the wrong format, rather than an inability to master skills a batsman like Hales has worked just as hard at honing. Plus – and rather depressingly – there have been other reservations about a cricketer who is, not to beat around the bush, a bit of a lad: a social-media fiend and all-round extrovert with a very clear idea of the rare and precious qualities possessed by Alex Hales.

At least one former England coach has raised a doubt about these less clubbable qualities. And here again is evidence of a certain fatal stodginess. Hales may or may not succeed in the longer forms. But show me a team that's picked on the basis of its bedside manner and I'll show you one that has not reached very many World Cup finals in the past 20 years.

So, what's changed? For one thing, Hales has been in such fine form he is simply unignorable right now. His last 11 innings have brought four hundreds across all formats and provided compelling evidence that he is neither a 20-over batsman nor a 50-over batsman, just a very good one.

Certainly there is nothing obviously unorthodox in Hales' basic method. His hundred against Sri Lanka in Chittagong at the World Twenty20 was basically a series of entirely respectable attacking shots, the kind that might have decorated a much longer first-class innings, just condensed into a dramatically shorter length of time at the crease, like watching a real-time montage of a four-hour Test match hundred.

Beyond this there has been a degree of enforced evolution for England's 50-over team. The build-a-platform tactic, apparently gleaned from studying old black-and-white tapes of the Gillette Cup, has seen them overrun too often abroad and Hales now looks like the most obvious instant panacea.

To accommodate the adjustment in tone there has already been a fair degree of hopeful talk that English cricket might have found "our David Warner", a player who can swim upstream, inverting the usual process by moving from short-form to long. It is a slightly forced comparison. Warner is a curious, sui generis cricketer, more successful in Tests – where his record is superior to that of Cook at the same stage – than he is in 50-over cricket. While Hales, for his part, has a better T20 international record than Warner at the same stage, with more runs at a higher average and higher range of score.

The best part of the comparison is perhaps technical. Both are deceptively simple pyrotechnic batsmen. At 6ft 5in, Hales may be the tallest man to open the innings for England (he also has unusually long arms) but the 25-year-old's best attacking shots are noticeably restrained. Like Warner, he is a player of simple movements, with relatively little to change, beyond the considerable mental leap, as the game gets longer or shorter.

At the end of which Hales seems to offer a degree of hope, not just for an unduly steady top order but also – perhaps – for the wider issues of how exactly English cricket goes about processing its more brittle high-end talents, whether power-hitting openers or unorthodox spin bowlers. Selecting your most destructive batsman to make his debut at the top of the order six months before a World Cup when all else has already failed is hardly a case of English cricket hurling its bowler hat in the air and learning to dance the samba. But it is certainly an intriguing prospect.

Hales deserves a run at this, plus the same opportunity to fail before he succeeds that a more biddable talent would receive. It has been a rather chaotic road to this stage. Perhaps, sink or swim, it might yet prove an instructive one.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Yes, I take that point but Hales is already a confident guy and more or less our T20 veteran, he is not green to international cricket.

The ECB are to blame for waiting so long to pick him which naturally stokes the expectation levels. I trust the team will do what they did with Buttler and give him a good run in the side even if he fails.

[rjd2]

True.

Especially as Luke Wright has played 50 ODIS and 50 T20'S.

Crikey.

[rjd2]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-bangladesh-2014/engine/match/730289.html

Keep reaching for the stars Bangladesh.