Frankie Boyle has a dig at Chris Morris (amongst others)

[Danger Man]

He (Boyle) also said that satire was effectively dead, as it tended to be people from the Establishment gently mocking the system they are part of. 'Satire is an RP voice saying ridiculous things,' he asserted. 'Even Chris Morris is that. People praise Brass Eye – and it was a good show – but a lot if that was taking the piss out of Paul Daniels.

http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2014/08/23/20798/they_dont_want_anything_interesting_or_edgy


Fair point?

[NoSleep]

I think so, yes.

[Cleaners From Venus]

Well, the RP satire argument goes back to Beyond the Fringe, so it's hardly a controversial or original statement. Boyle always loses for me, purely for his continuous defence of his Jordan's son 'joke'.

[mobias]

http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2014/08/23/20798/they_dont_want_anything_interesting_or_edgy


Fair point?

Not that I'm a fan of Frankie Boyle but I've argued in the past here that the celebrity duping is by far the weakest part of Brass Eye. Bits of it are funny and it was funny at the time but its curiously aged it I think. Its just been done so much since then and people like Paul Daniels were way too easy targets.

[Petey Pate]

His description of Clarkson as a "cultural tumour" made me laugh.  Why wasn't Tramadol Nights that funny?

[Danger Man]

It should be pointed out that Richard Herring comes off worst in the article, as Boyle alludes to him being a 'cunt'.

[Sexton Brackets Drugbust]

Surely the rather cosmetic RP aspect comes back to the fact that satire often takes the form of an exaggerated or extremely ridiculous reflection of the dominant power - which in this case, tends to favour received pronunciation.

[Petey Pate]

Also relevant to this board:

'I don't watch Derek and think "this is terrible" - I watch it and think "Stephen Merchant is really funny".

[checkoutgirl]

Look at the ITV schedules, it's like a cruise ship's entertainment.

I agree with this. Not that it's big news or anything, ITV has probably always been like that. And some people like a cruise ship's entertainment, these people tend to go on cruise ships and watch ITV.

[checkoutgirl]

At the Edinburgh International Television Festival, the comic also defended his own reputation – saying much more thought went into his jokes than simply trying to create knee-jerk offence.

That is shocking. Actual thought went into Tramadol Nights? I can't believe that, it's more like they just filmed the first idea they got.

[checkoutgirl]

The grammar in that article is a fucking disgrace. I noticed "if" instead of "of" at least twice and "he" instead of "the" and "thinks" where it should be "things". I counted four spelling mistakes so far and I'm only halfway through. Do they proofread at Chortle at all? Biggytitbo has better spelling than that.

[Petey Pate]

Frankie Boyle is the Noel Fielding of offensive comedy.  He was given free reign by channel 4 to display his supposed 'uninhibited comedic genius', but fundamentally he lacks the intelligence or skill to pull off anything as clever, edgy or unique as he thinks he is.

At least he tries though.

[checkoutgirl]

However he insisted his harshness was an act. 'I'm not really so judgmental in real life

Okay, so Frankee Boyles's being an asshole is just a big act.

And I do see that Clarkson is like that for a certain reason – he's been brought up not to empathise.'

...and Jermy Clarkson being an asshole is NOT just a big act.

Convenient that. You could argue that Boyle being a cunt as an act means that he is just being a cunt for money. That's another way of looking at it. Frankie Boyle is a cunt to people for money. That's about right. I'd go along with that.

[Danger Man]

Boyle's always reminded me of a really scary supply teacher.

[Cleaners From Venus]

He recently called Murdoch a tumour as well, whilst at the same time, writing for The Sun. Him criticising Clarkson really doesn't hold much water.

[BlodwynPig]

The major reason why I don't think Frankie Boyle is funny is because he is not funny.

I laughed at Chris Morris. He is funny.

[checkoutgirl]

Frankie Boyle (Tramadol Nights) negatively commenting on Chris Morris (Brass Eye) is a bit fucking rich, saying the least. So a lot of it is ripping the piss out of Paul Daniels, like that is an inherently inferior thing. If anyone needs the piss taken out of them it's Paul Daniels. The diminutive conjuror has had to answer questions about it in interviews and is suitably embarrassed which is an achievement for Chris Morris. What has Boyle done other than constantly have to defend himself for totally unnecessarily being a complete cunt to a swimmer or making excuses for slagging off a disabled ten year old boy? Boyle's opinions on satire are worth the same as one of his shitty Knight Rider sketches, i.e absolutely fucking nothing.

[Big Jack McBastard]

"A lot of that was taking the piss out of Paul Daniels"...

Erm.. what?, granted that did happen, but his definition of 'a lot' is cockeyed. One bit in one episode with an extended take where he makes an obvious arse of himself yeah? They spent more time on Nicholas Parsons.

How about this as a response: All of Tramadol Nights was shit Frankie, you pissed away far more time and good-will than Morris ever did by having a daft old whore make a fool of himself one time over a decade ago. Your may enjoy taking the piss out of the blind but there is none so blind as he who refuses to see the truth.

[BlodwynPig]

Look at the period when brass eye came out - twitter and YouTube were not around. There was not a culture of piling on a celebrity or even getting close to a celebrity via social media. You can say Morris was punching an east target but he wasn't, he was exposing a hypocrisy and shattering myths. Fuck off Boyle

[checkoutgirl]

"A lot of that was taking the piss out of Paul Daniels"...

Erm.. what?, granted that did happen, but his definition of 'a lot' is cockeyed. One bit in one episode with an extended take where he makes an obvious arse of himself yeah? They spent more time on Nicholas Parsons.

I don't think he literally means Paul Daniels, I think he's using Daniels as a metaphor for celebrities in general. And Morris did have a fair few of them on, not that there's anything wrong with that. People like John McCrirrick need to be exposed for the idiots they are.

[greenman]

I don't think he literally means Paul Daniels, I think he's using Daniels as a metaphor for celebrities in general. And Morris did have a fair few of them on, not that there's anything wrong with that. People like John McCrirrick need to be exposed for the idiots they are.

What set Morris apart for me though was that the vast majority of the celeb stuff on Brass Eye wasn't putting the boot in on easier targets like Daniels, Jaz Man and Edmonds(the first two didn't need much to hang themselves). Either it was Morris presenting something ridiculous in front of an unknowing audience for comic effect or it was Morris putting ridiculous words into celebs mouths. In both these situations it was rare that the nature of the prank was based on anything personal, the only link tended to be that the celebs in question may have been vocal in the media on the subject or been the kind of people the media would be likely to turn to on such a subject.

The overall effect was pretty clearly to comment on a wider culture of unthinking self promotion and media BS rather than to target individuals. Very different from the celeb hate culture that sprung up in the years since that's really just another side of the same stinking coin.

[NoSleep]

People like John McCrirrick need to be exposed for the idiots they are.

I'd never noticed before Chris Morris pointed it out.

[thraxx]

Not that I'm a fan of Frankie Boyle but I've argued in the past here that the celebrity duping is by far the weakest part of Brass Eye. Bits of it are funny and it was funny at the time but its curiously aged it I think. Its just been done so much since then and people like Paul Daniels were way too easy targets.

It is a point, but perhaps only seems 'fair' as seen from today, and the celebrity duping is very much of its time and has not dated well. 

I'm ready to be called out on this, but I bet that many seeing it in the last 5 years for the first time won't have even a clue who many of the celebs are.  For example, in the Clare Raynor one, the joke is clear, but I personally find it all the more effective because that specific joke is played on her, same for Jas Man.

Many of the celebs that were duped were very famous at the time of the Brass Eye episodes originally aired, and we were not quite in accessible the celebrity culture as we know it today.  Before Big Brother, Heat and Social Networks, and the traditional Saturday Night Mafia establishment were only on the beginning of the end of dying out.

As such, showing Paul Daniels leaning on the edge of the table doing the 'So come on, help us get that trunk out...' into the hand mic seemed to me to be a revelation - it opened up a glorious pussy splat of so many things, not least how little research and elbow grease went into their work; how desperate these people were to cling onto their little empires, and how unprofessional and shoddy they really were.

Finally, ready to be called out on this too, but getting David Amess to go into parliament with Cake fore example surely took satire into new realms.

[greenman]

It is a point, but perhaps only seems 'fair' as seen from today, and the celebrity duping is very much of its time and has not dated well. 

I'm ready to be called out on this, but I bet that many seeing it in the last 5 years for the first time won't have even a clue who many of the celebs are.  For example, in the Clare Raynor one, the joke is clear, but I personally find it all the more effective because that specific joke is played on her, same for Jas Man.

Many of the celebs that were duped were very famous at the time of the Brass Eye episodes originally aired, and we were not quite in accessible the celebrity culture as we know it today.  Before Big Brother, Heat and Social Networks, and the traditional Saturday Night Mafia establishment were only on the beginning of the end of dying out.

As such, showing Paul Daniels leaning on the edge of the table doing the 'So come on, help us get that trunk out...' into the hand mic seemed to me to be a revelation - it opened up a glorious pussy splat of so many things, not least how little research and elbow grease went into their work; how desperate these people were to cling onto their little empires, and how unprofessional and shoddy they really were.

Finally, ready to be called out on this too, but getting David Amess to go into parliament with Cake fore example surely took satire into new realms.

I'd say the opposite, something like Jaz Man has likely dated a lot more for new audiences because the segment was based on knowledge of his career at the time, much of the rest of it is not actually about the celebs in question so really the only knowledge a viewer needs is that they were someone famous not in on the joke.

[checkoutgirl]

When I see people looking at a guy going into the 'hood and shouting n**ger and comparing it to Brass Eye and going "Mate, what's the difference between Chris Morris and Johnny Knoxville/Keith Lemon/YoutubePrankTwat?". My reaction to that question is to not even bother trying to explain the differences. You could write a small book on the many differences between these things. In Morris's career there were a fair few phone pranks but I seem to remember them being in fairly good taste, ringing up a car mechanics for opinions on Ministry of Defence expenditure, that type of thing. What sets Morris apart is the level of preparation and detail and the fact that he actually had a wider point to make about celebrity and media. Good luck finding any of that in dapperlaughs or what have you.

[mobias]

Finally, ready to be called out on this too, but getting David Amess to go into parliament with Cake fore example surely took satire into new realms.

That was superb but the highest point in the series was in the pedophile special where he got that police censorship advisor to pass comment on those ridiculous mocked up photos. Its that sort of thing and going after those sorts of people I think he should have done a lot more of throughout the series rather than going after brainless C list celebrities, funny though it often was. The other good one was when he was trying to buy all those made up drugs from the dealer in Brixton. Thats probably my favourite bit in the whole series. Sums up Brass Eye at its best I think.

[thraxx]

I'd say the opposite, something like Jaz Man has likely dated a lot more for new audiences because the segment was based on knowledge of his career at the time, much of the rest of it is not actually about the celebs in question so really the only knowledge a viewer needs is that they were someone famous not in on the joke.

I don't think that I explained myself well - I was trying to make pretty much the same point.  The duping works, because it is someone famous as you say.  When you know the context of the dupee and their career at the time; that's when it comes to the next level - and that's why it hasn't aged well.

[up_the_hampipe]

When Boyle talks about comedy (except for when he bagged on Stewart Lee) he seems like he'd fit right in on here. But then his comedy just doesn't reflect his opinions very well.

[Beagle 2]

The whole interview reads like they've cornered him while he was drunk, but I'm aware that he's teetotal. I think the Herring thing is simply a joke. He probably made a face when he said it. The rest of it seems very scattershot and three-pints-in ranty.

I don't think the Chris Morris criticism is valid at all. How is it better satire if it's in a regional accent? And clearly there were wider points being made in the duping of most of the celebrities on Brass Eye.

Frankie Boyle can really write a joke, is an impressive performer, and his heart seems to be in the right place. But the attempts to be edgy just never come off for me, whether on stage or in print. It's a bit witless, and it seems to work against him ultimately.

[greenman]

I don't think that I explained myself well - I was trying to make pretty much the same point.  The duping works, because it is someone famous as you say.  When you know the context of the dupee and their career at the time; that's when it comes to the next level - and that's why it hasn't aged well.

My point would be that it depends a lot on the nature of the duping, I'm guessing a lot of viewers had no clue who the hell Peregrine Worsthorne or Darcus Howe(both actually came off very well) were but it likely didn't spoil the jokes done with them. The Jaz Man interview whilst probably still amusing for its own sake really only becomes hilarious if you know his background.