Main Menu

Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 29, 2024, 12:48:14 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Fallout 4

Started by Mister Six, November 05, 2014, 02:09:27 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Mister Six

Looks like Bethesda have registered Fallout: Shadow of Boston at the German trademark office.

Also looks like there might be some TV connections as well, though whether that's just for TV ads or possibly Germany's patent office lumping in web videos/VG voice acting under a TV banner (entirely my speculation) is unknown.

To be honest, I'd rather see Obsidian stepping back up to bat. New Vegas was a bug-ridden mess, but it also had a much richer and more satisfyingly fleshed out environment than Fallout 3, which felt like a theme park more than a living, breathing world. There's a very good (and very funny) YouTube analysis of this phenomenon here.

Still, if it has to be Bethesda, hopefully they'll pay attention to what Obsidian did right and follow suit. But any Fallout is great news for me (Wasteland 2 is great, but it still feels like a stopgap) and I'd love to see a post-apocalyptic world rendered in the Skyrim engine.

So yeah, early days yet. BUT I AM SO EXCITED!

Van Dammage

Should that not be fallout 4? Or fallout 6 if Tactics is counted along with Vegas.
Either Way I really can't wait for this and think I might have to bring the games out again for a replay.

Ignatius_S

Fallout 4, surely – New Vegas was Fallout 3.5. *edit* beaten to it.

Quote from: Mister Six on November 05, 2014, 02:09:27 PM... New Vegas was a bug-ridden mess, but it also had a much richer and more satisfyingly fleshed out environment than Fallout 3, which felt like a theme park more than a living, breathing world....

I did think that New Vegas was an improvement in many ways and built upon the firm foundations of the previous game, but preferred Fallout 3 in terms of environment (as discussed in previous threads). Same went for as a role-playing experience – I found it much easier to develop sense of my character.

Some of the new features (e.g. weapon modification) were (or an equivalent) available through the modding community for F3, who were an influence on the NV developers. Consequently the jump wasn't that noticeable for me.

There were one or two new features that I really liked but felt like a work in progress (e.g. the gang relationship system was quite crude) but left me excited for the next one.

Quote from: Mister Six on November 05, 2014, 02:09:27 PM...Still, if it has to be Bethesda, hopefully they'll pay attention to what Obsidian did right and follow suit. But any Fallout is great news for me (Wasteland 2 is great, but it still feels like a stopgap) and I'd love to see a post-apocalyptic world rendered in the Skyrim engine....

Nothing to base this one, but my gut feeling is that it will be the Void Engine that they use.

Van Dammage

My main complaint with New Vegas is I *think* their was only one companion you could get if you were evil,Danny Trejo as the Ghoul. Enjoyed role playing as a Legion Dickhead for the most part and was disappointed that there wasn't any Legion companions.

Ignatius_S

Quote from: Van Dammage on November 05, 2014, 03:10:06 PM
My main complaint with New Vegas is I *think* their was only one companion you could get if you were evil,Danny Trejo as the Ghoul. Enjoyed role playing as a Legion Dickhead for the most part and was disappointed that there wasn't any Legion companions.

Didn't affect me as I wasn't going that way! However, I do remember quite a few people being disappointed by this. Sure that if you do go that route, the robot will remain your companion – have a feeling the nightkin one will as well.

Thinking about it, with the endgame choices, you're forced to serve others – either taking one side or the greater good. I always thought it was a little disappointing that you couldn't set yourself in charge (I know I would be a just and benevolent ruler, honest) and for someone self-serving, that would be a no-brainer.

Zetetic

Isn't that exactly what you do if you go down the No Gods, No Masters route?

Mister Six

Quote from: Van Dammage on November 05, 2014, 02:49:53 PM
Should that not be fallout 4? Or fallout 6 if Tactics is counted along with Vegas.
Either Way I really can't wait for this and think I might have to bring the games out again for a replay.

Aye, yeah - edited. I think of NV being a 'proper' Fallout game along the lines of 3, though, given its enormous size, mostly new content, and the massive improvements it made to the mechanics of the game.

Mister Six

Quote from: Ignatius_S on November 05, 2014, 03:19:27 PM
Thinking about it, with the endgame choices, you're forced to serve others – either taking one side or the greater good. I always thought it was a little disappointing that you couldn't set yourself in charge (I know I would be a just and benevolent ruler, honest) and for someone self-serving, that would be a no-brainer.

As Zetetic says, killing House and going with the Yes Man meant that you took over as the ruler of the strip.

I was actually more annoyed that there wasn't a halfway mark where I could run the strip but pal up with the NCR as an ally, which is what my character would've done, based on his interactions with the various groups. Don't see why NV couldn't maintain its independence while remaining a strategic ally.

But that wasn't a choice, so I had my robots throw the general off the dam and ran the NCR out of town. In for a penny...

Ignatius_S

Quote from: Zetetic on November 05, 2014, 04:35:37 PM
Isn't that exactly what you do if you go down the No Gods, No Masters route?

No, I wouldn't say so – the voiceover ending says that the player had ended Mr House's tyranny and New Vegas was free and remained independent from the NCR or Legion. When there's a run-down of what happens to the other factions, it's clear that they have a lot of license to operate (and one leaves because it's NV is less stable). Instead of installing one power, lots of different factions have power.

I suppose you can infer that the player is in power and showing a laissez-faire approach, but, as reflected by the accomplishment's title, with this ending you're enabling self-determination by the people.

Thursday

Quote from: Mister Six on November 05, 2014, 04:50:37 PM
As Zetetic says, killing House and going with the Yes Man meant that you took over as the ruler of the strip.

I was actually more annoyed that there wasn't a halfway mark where I could run the strip but pal up with the NCR as an ally, which is what my character would've done, based on his interactions with the various groups. Don't see why NV couldn't maintain its independence while remaining a strategic ally.


Yeah I thought the same thing, the NCR were okay, they just needed me around to stop them when they were being dicks. They also just slightly overplayed the evilness of the Legion, come on guys, you can make your point without brutally torturing and crucifying people, come on now.

Sexton Brackets Drugbust

God, I loved New Vegas.  I hope they can make a world as fully realised and balanced as that for the new game.

Damn, I've started anticipation mode way too soon.

Big Jack McBastard

Quote from: Mister Six on November 05, 2014, 02:09:27 PM
There's a very good (and very funny) YouTube analysis of this phenomenon here.

Fuck that guy.

"What do they eat?" He says.

He swans about Megaton looking at nothing, missing the diner on the left as you enter. Which is stocked with meals and meat and Nuka Cola products most of the time. Similar can be said of Rivet City which is one of the few places in the game where most of the food is ok, again another diner/foodstand being a focal point there.

There's an abundance of stores with loads of food on the shelves, cans and prepackaged stuff all over the place.

Notice he picks the arse of F3 for it but didn't question what the mutants in NV eat.

Ok, yes, there's one mutant to be found farming, in one hidden locality in NV, are we to take it that she is supplying everyone of her brethren? How come he's not straining his spuds over that bit of folly?

Somehow the Brahmins aren't enough for him in F3 but the Mutant Sheep Things are in NV, huh?. All that pissing and moaning and all he is pointing out is that they don't have farms in Fallout 3 and the shitty farms they do have in NV don't get harvested by NPCs either, oh noes. What'll he do? Another video? Can't wait..

Pfeh.

Also what did he expect? Both games to be exactly the same? NV came out later and had some fleshed out ideas that F3 didn't have, big sur-fucking-prize, talk about stating the bleedin' (and shit) obvious like it's some revelation.

Van Dammage


Big Jack McBastard

I was gonna say 'Shadow of Boston' sounds like a load of old shite as a title.

"Reflections of Journey"

"Aura of The Eagles"

"Whispers of Fleetwood Mac"

Shoulders?-Stomach!


Mister Six

Quote from: Thursday on November 05, 2014, 09:20:08 PM
Yeah I thought the same thing, the NCR were okay, they just needed me around to stop them when they were being dicks. They also just slightly overplayed the evilness of the Legion, come on guys, you can make your point without brutally torturing and crucifying people, come on now.

Yeah, that pissed me off too. I never bothered with an evil playthrough of NV (my regular playthrough took more than a hundred hours, and it occupied such a large part of my brain that it'll be years before I can approach it anew) but when I do go evil my characters generally just want power, money and sex, not genocide, rape and slavery.

I've been assured that once you actually talk to Caesar, he makes a fairly persuasive argument that his way is the only way that the wasteland will survive, as the NCR are too weak and democracy just won't work in somewhere as fragmented and self-serving as post-apocalyptic California. But to get to that point you have to look at the crucified town, the deranged guys dressed in third-rate Halloween costumes and the slave women being force to carry massive packs full of goods and think, Yes - this is a good idea.

Also, as someone said above, the Legion route is under-developed compared with the rest, and lacks NPC followers and missions, especially compared with the NCR. I'd like to have seen it fully realised according to the design docs, but now I suppose I never will.

Mister Six

Quote from: Big Jack McBastard on November 05, 2014, 09:56:15 PM
Fuck that guy.

"What do they eat?" He says.

He swans about Megaton looking at nothing, missing the diner on the left as you enter. Which is stocked with meals and meat and Nuka Cola products most of the time. Similar can be said of Rivet City which is one of the few places in the game where most of the food is ok, again another diner/foodstand being a focal point there.

But where do they get that from? Tinned goods are going to run out some time (they really should have run out sooner, but okay, it's a video game), there's not much in the way of communities to trade with in that world, and there are only about seven of those two-headed cows in the entire game, and only a couple in Megaton. Not enough for such a community to survive on.

QuoteNotice he picks the arse of F3 for it but didn't question what the mutants in NV eat.

People. And some of them are raiding farms (there's a quest where you have to defend a farm from invisible super-mutants - I think in the same town where you meet Boon).

QuoteAlso what did he expect? Both games to be exactly the same? NV came out later and had some fleshed out ideas that F3 didn't have, big sur-fucking-prize, talk about stating the bleedin' (and shit) obvious like it's some revelation.
Fallout 3 came out after Fallout 2, which also did a much better job of world-building. Basically, Bethesda fucked up in that regard. It's not like the concept of plausible world-building didn't emerge until 2010.

Onken

I put hundreds of hours into Fallout 3 and New Vegas but can't remember anything you're all talking about.

Mobius

It makes me sad to think how far away Fallout 4 is, like literally hundreds of days until it's a reality. I'd take a New Vegas remake on the PS4 but I doubt they'd bother and it'd probably just bring a host of new glitches with it :(

Thursday

#19
Quote from: Mister Six on November 06, 2014, 02:41:08 AM
Yeah, that pissed me off too. I never bothered with an evil playthrough of NV (my regular playthrough took more than a hundred hours, and it occupied such a large part of my brain that it'll be years before I can approach it anew) but when I do go evil my characters generally just want power, money and sex, not genocide, rape and slavery.


This is a problem with a lot of morality/karma systems in games, you help people out because you want to actually explore the content the game has to offer and because of the rewards it brings, I often go in with the intention of doing an evil playthrough, but being nice usually ends up being the most pragmatic thing to do.

Fry

I feel like I've yet to play a game where it makes sense to be evil . I mean, the early parts of the Elder Scrolls games kind of do it well. Where you're weak and poor, so you steal from people and sometimes take morally questionable actions to survive in a harsh world that is generally hostile. But unless you install mods that include some sort of hunger/fatigue/weapon degradation mechanic[nb] so you are forced to expend your gold on food, shelter and protection[/nb] after a couple of hours any crimes you commit are purely for fun. I want a game where there is an allure to become evil because it makes you richer and more powerful far easier and quicker, but with this you create more enemies for yourself and results in a situation where the only options for you to survive without giving up all that you've worked for are fairly heinous acts. It would be nice if your first introduction to the legion wasn't an entire town crucified and put to the torch - which immediately casts them as the villains in the story. Walter White didn't start off
Spoiler alert
poisoning children
[close]
, it was a result of the various decisions made earlier in his 'campaign'. I want that.
Imagine if you were attracted to the legion initially because it genuinely seemed like they could protect Goodsprings well with a supply of arms and manpower that didn't involve having to schmooze all the pricks who seemed entirely uninterested in protecting their own life, but it resulted in you being in debt to them. A debt that must be paid unless you want a squad of fuck hard fuckos chasing you down early in the game where you have little chance to protect yourself.

F:NV is one of the best games veer though, I've always preferred it to F3.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Quote from: Fry on November 06, 2014, 08:46:57 PM
I feel like I've yet to play a game where it makes sense to be evil ...
I couldn't have put it better myself. I played through Fallout 3 and New Vegas a second time as a wrong'un, but it never felt natural. I wasn't taking the evil path because of necessity or expediency, but just so I could see the bad ending. It's like when you do one of those "Which Star Wars Character Are You?" things and you just choose the answers that will make you Han Solo.

The vast scope of the games is obviously one of the big selling points of them but, in a way, it's also one of the worst things about them. The number of options available can feel a bit bewildering and the games are so long that I can't be bothered to investigate them all.

Mister Six

Quote from: Fry on November 06, 2014, 08:46:57 PMI want a game where there is an allure to become evil because it makes you richer and more powerful far easier and quicker, but with this you create more enemies for yourself and results in a situation where the only options for you to survive without giving up all that you've worked for are fairly heinous acts.

My first ever paper-and-pens RPG game, which I played over a few months with some friends this year, went exactly like that. Started off with us just wanting money and power, culminated in us starting an entire civil war/uprising/jihad that we were barely in control of, and the only way to try to minimise damage and redirect it was to do more awful things. It was fantastic fun. Though I imagine something on that scale would be tricky to program, it would be amazing to play a game like Dragon Age where, without quite realising it until the end, you actually manage to displace and become the world-threatening menace, whereas in the 'good' game you fight it as per normal.

Quote
Imagine if you were attracted to the legion initially because it genuinely seemed like they could protect Goodsprings well with a supply of arms and manpower that didn't involve having to schmooze all the pricks who seemed entirely uninterested in protecting their own life, but it resulted in you being in debt to them. A debt that must be paid unless you want a squad of fuck hard fuckos chasing you down early in the game where you have little chance to protect yourself.
This is a really brilliant idea. There were opportunities to profit through being a cunt in NV - like selling out that cowboy NPC to the energy weapons runners outside The Strip - but the main campaign required the player to be a psychopath for no obvious gain. I mean, Caesar gave you a good reason to fight for him if you went to speak to him, but you could only get that far by consciously siding with rapists and slavers.

Sexton Brackets Drugbust

All too often, videogames associate 'evil' with 'kills everyone,' which admittedly is fairly evil, but not always particularly useful and therefore makes less sense than a 'good' playthrough.
 
There's a lot more subtlety and manipulation in real world evil, which should be what developers take into consideration.  It might even help to think in terms of degrees of selflessness and selfishness - an evil character may very well help a town of unsuspecting yokels in the same way as a heroic character, with the differentiating factor being why they were doing it in the first place, and how they handle the aftermath.

Obviously, stuff like this is harder to program and organise than, 'You killed them.'

Mister Six


Quote from: Sexton Brackets Drugbust on November 07, 2014, 10:55:59 PM
There's a lot more subtlety and manipulation in real world evil, which should be what developers take into consideration.  It might even help to think in terms of degrees of selflessness and selfishness - an evil character may very well help a town of unsuspecting yokels in the same way as a heroic character, with the differentiating factor being why they were doing it in the first place, and how they handle the aftermath.

Obviously, stuff like this is harder to program and organise than, 'You killed them.'

Well quite a few RPGs do this, but just have a dialogue choice at the start in which players can either say 'I will help you good sir!' or 'If I help you, what will you give me?' Which is obviously not living up to the potential that you have identified.

How's about looking to the real-world evil of the guys who in Nestle or Coca-Cola? Prepared to do something very bad (drain a village of water, having lobbied the UN to make water 'inessential' to human life) to achieve a benefit for others (shareholders and company employees).

Sexton Brackets Drugbust

I was thinking, a lot of it does come back to the classic Good/Neutral/Evil, Ordered/Neutral/Chaotic character generation of older RPGs, but as with everything in modern gaming, things get stripped back to their simplest components.

Sexton Brackets Drugbust

Choosing an 'evil' path usually results in Good NPCs shouting abuse, attacking you, or running away.  Again, looking to real world examples, where's the option to do evil/selfish things, but present your actions to the population as positive/necessary for their protection?

Mister Six

Quote from: Sexton Brackets Drugbust on November 08, 2014, 01:02:12 PM
Choosing an 'evil' path usually results in Good NPCs shouting abuse, attacking you, or running away.  Again, looking to real world examples, where's the option to do evil/selfish things, but present your actions to the population as positive/necessary for their protection?

Not quite the same, but one of the things I liked about Dragon Age: Origins was that if you got that sallow-faced baddie as a follower, he actually justified pretty much every action he took as being the most pragmatic way to save the world. It'd be really interesting to play a game where you actually had to do things that made you look like a cunt to people you want to impress in order to have a positive effect. I don't mean stuff that's actually evil[nb]And I don't want to promulgate that right-wing philosophy of lionising yourself for acting the cunt on the basis that if it's an unpopular decision it must automatically be the right one.[/nb] but something like having to take a toy off a little kid because it's actually a relic that some ghost will kill for. Or something like that. I dunno. I'm sleepy.

But yeah, your suggestion would be great. Simulate the way that Republicans get so many US citizens to argue against their own self-interest regarding healthcare and so on.

Have people been watching the Fallout Lore series that have been coming out?

I mean, they're nerdy but they're really starting to hit their stride in terms of execution and content. Basically, they go really in depth and tell the compelling stories underneath the various subplots of Fallout 3. They're dorky but I find them really very endearing and sweet in how it frames it as a serialised story of a fella talking to his robot. Telling it stories as he goes through his own adventures.

FALLOUT Lore: Volume 4 - Call of Krivbeknih: http://youtu.be/SXoWsWH50_Y

kittens

yesterday i started playing fallout 2!! i'm excited i hope it's good. so far i have had serious trouble hitting things with my big spear