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The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)

Started by Ambient Sheep, November 12, 2014, 03:44:05 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Lewis was not avoiding a crash - again - he accelerated while on all four wheels were on the grass trying to overtake.




Ambient Sheep

I have to say, that is the way it looked to me as well through all the replays, but we'll have to see what they say the telemetry says, I guess.

At least the stewards have declared it a racing incident, so no bollocks there, thankfully.

ersatz99

Surely there was no way Hamilton would ever have considered accelerating through an overtaking move on grass. I saw it as Rosberg knowing he messed up and instinctively shut the door misjudging the speed difference and assuming that Hamilton would just back off as if they were jostling for position into a corner, which rhey were still quite a distance from. 

Ambient Sheep

This is the official judgement from the stewards:

QuoteThe incident concerned started when Car No 6 dropped into an incorrect power mode, as set by the driver prior to the start,  This created a significant power differential between Car 6 and Car 44 at the exit of Turn 3 coming on to the straight, resulting in as much as a 17 kmh speed difference between the two cars on the straight.  Car 6 moved to the right to defend his position, as is his right under Art 27.7 of the Sporting regulations.  Simultaneously Car 44 as the significantly quicker car with, at that time, apparent space on the inside, moved to make the pass.  Art 27.7 requires the leading driver to leave room, if there is a "significant portion" of the car attempting to pass alongside.  Car 44 had a portion of his front wing inside Car 6 small fractions of a second prior to Car 44 having to leave the right side of the track to avoid an initial collision, which may have led him to believe he had the right to space on the right.  Once on the grass on the side of the track Car 44 was no longer in control of the situation.
   
Having heard extensively from both drivers and from the team, the Stewards determined that Car 6 had the right to make the manoeuvre that he did and that Car 44's attempt to overtake was reasonable, and that the convergence of events led neither driver to be wholly or predominantly at fault, and therefore take no further action.

Seems fair enough to me.

im barry bethel


Shoulders?-Stomach!

Bit relieved there's been some overtaking in Baku thanks to DRS.


I keep seeing that sign saying WELL DONE BAKU which seems almost like tempting fate if anything goes wrong.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Rosberg has won more Grand Prix than any other non-champion.

I was just thinking who the others could be - Berger, Massa, Webber, Coulthard, Barrichello?

It's got to be this year if ever, hasn't it? His wins per season keep increasing - 1, 3, 5, 6 and 5 already this year.

http://www.f1-grandprix.com/?page_id=32125

Ahh - Moss, of course.

The figures are pretty low - even across the course of very long careers.

Blumf

The Baku track isn't too bad is it?

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Quote from: Blumf on June 19, 2016, 05:34:09 PM
The Baku track isn't too bad is it?

It wasn't completely awful. Remarkably Monaco-esque in sections, more like Valencia/Singapore in others. Bit worried when the cars get wider next year and even further reduce passing to only DRS zones. The tyres didn't seem to have very distinct operating windows here. The super-soft was available yet given everyone was starting by doing a one stop it made it pretty much pointless. There's so much more they could do with tyres. You need as many different strategies going as possible.

One problem was the first DRS zone allowed passing cars to keep the DRS open in the following corners which reduced the potential chance of fightbacks. There's an improvement they could do.

It's better than Sochi, just.




Blumf

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 19, 2016, 05:46:52 PM
It's better than Sochi, just.

Come on, it's far better than that paint drying simulator. I think there's scope for a bit of fine tuning here and there, but otherwise one of the better street circuits.

ziggy starbucks

it needed more castles. I liked the castle.

the rest of the circuit was visually indistinct

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Some of the old town was nice too a la Monaco.

The amount of grandstands were realistic at least. It looked full despite clearly very few people overall being there.

Blumf


Shoulders?-Stomach!

Quoteit is what it is - Kimi Raikkonen

buzby

I'm not sure if anyone else follows endurance racing, but it was the Le Mans 24 Hours this weekend and as is my annual custom I tried to watch as much of it as possible on Eurosport. The race started under a bit of a cloud, as Ford (who the other manufacturers had let enter the GTE Pro category on account of it being 50 years since the GT40 first won at Le Mans, even though no road-going version of their car exists yet) had blown everybody's doors off in last week's qualifying, having sandbagged in all the previous races to avoid any ballast or restrictor changes prior to the race (the ACO restricted their boost for the race, but it was too little too late)

It was the usual Le Mans fare with car failures, driver-error crashes, safety cars and the new Slow Zones (half-way between a yellow flag and a safety car - if a car is being recovered or track work is being carried out they signal electronically to the cars to tell the driver to engage a speed limiter on that section of the track). For 24 hours 55 minutes the leading Toyota LMP1 prototype had been monotonously reliable, having over a minute lead over the second-placed Porsche 919 (which had been in and out of the garage a few times, and it's sister car had expired) and a couple of laps over it's third-placed Toyota teammate.

The ex-F1 driver Kazuki Nakajima was at the wheel of the lead car, all set for Toyota to be the first Japanese manufacturer to win since Mazda in 1991 when coming down the Mulsanne Straight on his penultimate lap he began to slow down, and radioed the pits to say he had no power and the engine was on it's limiter. He crawled round to the pit straight, but was overtaken by the 2nd placed Porsche just as he passed the pit entry, and the car ground to a halt next to the pit wall. He eventually got it going again and crawled round using the hybrid power system to complete the lap, but as the lap was outside the time limit for the LMP1 class the car was classed as DNF. Porsche therefore inherited their 18th overall win, to the total amazement of everyone (not least themselves) and the total shock and devastation of all in the Toyota garage.

On the GTE front, 3 of the Ford GTs were running 1st, 3rd and 4th, with the US privateer Risi Competizione Ferrari 488 GTE in 2nd place 1 minute behind (and the second Ford GT 24 seconds behind them). With 10 minutes to go, the Clerk of the Course started giving radio messages to the team that the 'leader lights' (lights on the doors that show the car's position in it's class) were showing the wrong position (1st instead of 2nd) and they showed the car the black and orange flag to come into the pits to get it fixed. The team were understandably reluctant to do this, so stayed out and eventually were handed a stop & go  penalty which they also ignored. They took the trophy on the podium for 2nd place, but all the trophies were handed back afterwards in a flurry of protests and counter-protests.

Ford protested initially about the leader lights, which led to the car being flagged and handed the stop & go. Risi then protested that the leading Ford GT had broken the speed limit in a slow zone, and the scrutineers also found it had faulty wheel speed sensors after the race. The stewards handed the Ferrari a 20-second penalty, and the Ford got a 50 second and 20 second penalty for each of it's two infringements. This meant that in the post-race results, the 1st place Ford won by a gap of 10 seconds over the Ferrari, with the 3rd place Ford 4 seconds back. However, both  Ferrari and Aston Martin have also protested that the Fords have broken the '7% performance window' rule for the GTE Pro class (the rule says that cars of the class should be 7% slower on lap times than cars of the class above, in this case LMP2). This protest is still ongoing, so the GTE Pro results are still provisional and it could even end up being decided in court.

Ambient Sheep

Well that was a disappointment.

This weekend I was in the unusual position of having both the time and the facilities to watch all three practice sessions as well as qually and the race.  Normally I still wouldn't bother with the practice sessions, but given the fact it was a new venue (and that for various reasons I managed to miss the debuts of nearly all the other new circuits over the last few years) I decided to sit through them all.

Given the amount of fascinating chaos in the practice sessions (particularly FP2) and even during the Qualifying, I was expecting a really cracking race, if perhaps for the wrong reasons.  And yet when it came to it, they all put their most boring sensible heads on and, although far from the most tedious race I've ever seen[nb]That honour goes to a early-2000s Monza where they all finished in exactly the same order they started, without a single change of position.[/nb] it really wasn't that exciting.

It was especially galling that the one real bit of excitement -- Hamilton's fight back up the field -- was denied us because of his engine mode thing.  I'm not normally one of those who criticises Lewis' social life, but the sheer haplessness in his voice as he whined "I don't knowwww what's [set] wrong" tends to indicate that perhaps he should spend at least a bit more of his spare time learning what all those funny buttons on his steering wheel actually do.  That's where Nico's technical focus wins out.

Anyway, I really did love the racetrack.  The architecture was fascinating (I love the Presidential Palace's mixture of Soviet brutalism and Islamic influence[nb]Pity it's apparently occupied by a human-rights-abusing fascist dictator.[/nb]) and the shoot up past the Maiden Tower (turn 8) was amazing.


Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 19, 2016, 08:21:03 PM
Some of the old town was nice too a la Monaco.

Indeed - during Canada last week Bernie was interviewed and said "It's going to be the new Monaco" and I can see why he said that, what with the elevation changes, the Caspian Sea in the background and the old town.  I guess it's part of a plan to actually get Prince Albert to start paying some more dosh than just $1.


Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 19, 2016, 08:21:03 PMThe amount of grandstands were realistic at least. It looked full despite clearly very few people overall being there.

On Sunday maybe, but on Saturday even the ones opposite the pits were literally empty apart from about 20 people.  EJ said "Don't worry, they'll be full tomorrow" and yes, as if by magic, so they were.


Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on June 19, 2016, 02:15:44 PMI keep seeing that sign saying WELL DONE BAKU which seems almost like tempting fate if anything goes wrong.

Oh God yes, tell me about it.  The best bit for me re. that was when poor old Bottas came into the pit-lane, one of the drain covers flipped up, half-destroyed his right sidepod, then went flying away nearly slicing two or three marshals' legs off at the shins.  Just as this happened -- with thankfully nobody hurt -- the big screen behind him flipped over from some other info to that "WELL DONE BAKU" thing.  I laughed.

Also amusing was when Ricciardo clipped the barrier at turn 15, and part of the advertising hoarding came off and wrapped itself round his right front tyre.  Which advertiser?  Pirelli...


Ambient Sheep

buzby: Not watched Le Mans in many years, for various reasons (mostly technical), but thank you for the fascinating race report.  I enjoyed reading it. :-)

Ambient Sheep

Ok, who's been putting mind-altering drugs in Jenson Button's tea?

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns34239.html

Quote...Button said the new drivers he is talking about would do well to learn from some of F1 legend Michael Schumacher's old races.

"These new drivers need to watch more of Michael's races," said Button, "because although he always raced very hard, at the same time he was always very correct in the way he fought."

8-|

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Interesting qualifying in Austria - Manor through to Q2 placed 9th, qualifies 12. Button qualifies 5th. Force India right up there again, this time Hulkenberg who is usually a good bet in changeable conditions.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

I've just realised because of penalties Hulkenberg is 2nd and Button 3rd!

First few laps at least will be interesting!

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Biiiig tyre failure for Vettel on the straight.

Safety car is having to take the cars through the pitlane on each tour round!

Free pit stops so a bit of a reset - lots of drivers were on really dud strategies so 2nd half of the race could be interesting. Rosberg seems to be the main beneficiary.

Shoulders?-Stomach!


Shoulders?-Stomach!

Rosberg drove Hamilton off the track. Ridiculous.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

I suppose Rosberg would be booed if Hamilton did that at Silverstone, but still... utterly undeserved.

You even had Rosberg blocking Hamilton from re-joining the track safely.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Toto trying to pass this off as a 'total' brake-by-wire failure on Rosberg's car, which on first impressions seems total bullshit.

1. Rosberg surely did not know about that into Turn 2 - if he had done would have taken it more conservatively. As he said himself, he felt the brakes were going but that he was 'feeling great and able to defend the corner'.

2. Rosberg only applied full lock to turn right on a hairpin bend until the front of his car was about 6 feet pointing square at the edge of the track, and only after Hamilton had hit him. It was an attempt to full on snub Hamilton's attempt to pass on the outside and grind their position into one of stalemate. Hamilton would not have thought in that split-second 'he's going to pull a Prost on me', because Rosberg had the car in position to exit that corner in front and elected not to take it. Race drivers do not operate on the assumption that a defending car won't be turning into the corner of a track they're racing around. Furthermore, and probably most damningly, Rosberg tentatively nudged the steering wheel right a split second before Hamilton turned in, which was the trigger for the contact. Ergo - he caused the collision.

I don't think Rosberg deserves any censure for driving on to the finish personally, and I'm not particularly interested in punishing him for this as it was a racing incident, but he needs to appreciate that was ultimately his own stupid fault.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

The other good news story from the race was that 8 different constructors finished in the points, which is something F1 have been trying to achieve more for quite a while. Kudos to Haas and Manor and to Jenson Button as those guys really gatecrashed events.


georgetaylor

to take Rosbergs' side, every time he tried to pass Hamilton on the outside in the past (Bahrain, Austin) Hamilton just drove him off the circuit and claimed reasons, so Rosberg thinks he will do that as well this time but finds, like Prost before him, that it's not as easy as it looks and came off second best.

Hamilton claiming that he left Rosberg space, and when the BBC pit woman put that to Rosberg the raised eye-brow and no comment from Rosberg told it's own story, he obviously was thinking "but I was inside, it was MY job to give room or not" but Hamilton already is claiming the psychological high ground with his 'giving space' comment.

I look forward to more of the same..

monolith

So 1 point in it, although apparently it is effectively a bigger lead due to restrictions that are likely to come Hamilton's way later in the season.

Interesting title race this year at least, don't think Hamilton will run away with it although you'd think that events would probably continue to have to conspire against him and he's had 4 season's worth of bad luck already.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

A long season so a few twists and turns. A lot of people had more or less handed Rosberg the title before Spain which was silly.

I think it will come down to the number of wins, and frankly I can't see Rosberg beating Hamilton on that score.

monolith

Nope, I think the only thing stopping Hamilton will be luck because he is a better driver than Nico, he had some really bad luck at the start of the season but has kept plugging away.

I agree, it was ridiculous with such a long season for people to think Nico was going to run away with it especially considering the circumstances of most of his wins (i.e. he's winning due to Hamilton fuck ups/bad luck most of the time). It was always likely to swing back if Lewis got a few races without any issues and that's exactly what has happened. He was never more than a few victories behind.

I do think it's a shame that their car is so much better than everyone else's though. A lot of experts seem to be saying that Lewis is going to go down as one of the greats, maybe even the best, but if he had stayed at McLaren then he would still only be winning the odd race and wouldn't be challenging for world titles. Would he still be talked up as one of the greatest drivers ever if he had stayed at McLaren?

I'm not an expert and have never driven in F1, but as a layman I can't see how what he is doing is so vastly superior to the rest of the field because if he swapped cars then he wouldn't be challenging for the win every race. The only thing we can say for sure, particularly if he wins this year, is that he is a better driver than Nico Rosberg.