Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 28, 2024, 11:41:47 PM

Login with username, password and session length

The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)

Started by Ambient Sheep, November 12, 2014, 03:44:05 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Ambient Sheep

Interesting snippet from the BBC's Andrew Benson about Alonso's "No power!  No power!" moment on Saturday:

QuoteHe was contending for a position in the top-10 qualifying shootout - thanks to help from 'tows' from Vandoorne to minimise the Honda's deficit on the straights - and would have got it had he not suffered a bizarre engine-related issue on his final run in the second knockout session.

The Honda failed to deploy its hybrid power boost after the fast Pouhon double left-hander because of a programming error in the electronics.

On that lap, Alonso took Pouhon flat out for the first time - something the Ferrari drivers managed but the Mercedes and Red Bull drivers did not, albeit all of them arriving at the corner faster. The problem was the Honda electronics were judging track position - and therefore where to deploy electrical energy - partly by throttle action. As Alonso had not lifted the accelerator, the system did not realise he had taken the corner so did not deploy after it.

*facepalm*

Ambient Sheep

If you've been following F1 news lately, then you're probably well aware of the whole "McLaren gets Toro Rosso's Renault engines; Toro Rosso gets McLaren's Honda engines; and Renault gets Sainz as compensation for the T.R. contract breach" saga.  The idea for Red Bull being that they get to try out the Hondas in T.R. and, if they ever finally come good, then Red Bull proper get to use them as a works team if they so choose.

Today's news though, is a further, and fucking hilarious, twist:

Renault have served notice on Red Bull, telling them that they will no longer supply them with engines after 2018, since they now have access to an alternative supply.

Thus Red Bull will be forced to use Hondas from 2018 onwards whether they like it or not.  Couldn't happen to a nicer team. <crying-with-laughter>

No wonder Verstappen's been talking to Mercedes and Dan's been reminding everyone how he's a free agent after 2018...

im barry bethel

Didn't VW turn up at some engine conference or other?


Shoulders?-Stomach!

I think there were those 'Porsche is joining F1' rumours going around too!

Red Bull showed no class in how they treated Renault. When you consider how patient McLaren were when Honda were ruining their team from the inside, it really showed a lack of temperament and class. Horner and Marko must have started feeling a bit sheepish when they saw how difficult Honda were finding making one of these engines.

Tbh having McLaren and Red Bull desperate for decent engines is a good thing. F1 would be good run as an engine formula so long as there were lots of engines and a good chance at any given time 3 or 4 engines were competitive. As per fucking usual this sport is rubbish at timing and joined up planning.

The worry is whether Red Bull will pack up their toys and go home and whether they'll be happy to sell off the main team (I assume they would sell off Toro Rosso at the very least) or close it down altogether. Weren't both McLaren and Red Bull looking into making their own engines? Got to assume that won't happen given the enormous expense and likelihood of total failure.


Ambient Sheep

Quote from: im barry bethel on September 14, 2017, 08:36:25 PM
Didn't VW turn up at some engine conference or other?

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on September 14, 2017, 08:45:12 PM
I think there were those 'Porsche is joining F1' rumours going around too!

Yeah, they've both shown interest in signing up once the new engine formula comes along in 2021.  But nothing confirmed as yet.

Red Bull had been hoping to get VW in sooner than that, as basically VW have just been waiting years for Bernie to bugger off before then entering F1, probably under the Lamborghini badge.  It was strongly rumoured that some sort of preliminary agreement between them had been drawn up   Unfortunately just as Bernie finally met his match, the VW diesel emissions scandal broke and that put the kibosh on it.


Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on September 14, 2017, 08:45:12 PMRed Bull showed no class in how they treated Renault. When you consider how patient McLaren were when Honda were ruining their team from the inside, it really showed a lack of temperament and class.

Absolutely, and this is the karma chickens well and truly coming home to roost.  Serve the buggers right.


Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on September 14, 2017, 08:45:12 PMThe worry is whether Red Bull will pack up their toys and go home and whether they'll be happy to sell off the main team (I assume they would sell off Toro Rosso at the very least) or close it down altogether.

Indeed.  Rumour's already had it for a while now that Dietrich Mateschitz has got bored of F1 and wants to go off and support other things instead.  It was rumoured that T.R. was going to be sold to Honda at some point; who knows, now it might be the big team or even both...


Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on September 14, 2017, 08:45:12 PMWeren't both McLaren and Red Bull looking into making their own engines? Got to assume that won't happen given the enormous expense and likelihood of total failure.

Red Bull looked at it when they first had problems with the new hybrid Renault engines.  They rapidly realised it was a non-starter.

As for McLaren, they came to the same conclusion for the current formula, but for the next one that's reportedly exactly what they're now planning to do: the idea is to use the Renaults as a stop-gap until 2020, by which time they'll have built their own engine ready for (a) the new formula and (b) their next generation of road car.

im barry bethel

Quote from: Ambient Sheep on September 14, 2017, 09:39:00 PM
Yeah, they've both shown interest in signing up once the new engine formula comes along in 2021.  But nothing confirmed as yet.

Red Bull had been hoping to get VW in sooner than that, as basically VW have just been waiting years for Bernie to bugger off before then entering F1, probably under the Lamborghini badge.  It was strongly rumoured that some sort of preliminary agreement between them had been drawn up   Unfortunately just as Bernie finally met his match, the VW diesel emissions scandal broke and that put the kibosh on it.

I think the previous management at VAG didn't want their best engineers tied up for a prolonged program (so went rallying instead) but after the Porsche takeover the board was diluted enough that there's been a longview of entering provided that any engine regs continue along the roadcar line. Trouble is after seeing the damage Honda have endured to their reputation unless there's a relaxation of the testing restrictions I can't imagine any manufacturers wanting to risk a £3/4/5 000m investment just to look useless.


Ambient Sheep

Meanwhile Carlos Sainz seems to have just shot himself in the foot and I don't just mean by going back to McLaren.  From a grandprix.com article here:

QuoteSainz denies Verstappen vetoed Red Bull move

Carlos Sainz has denied that his former teammate Max Verstappen vetoed his potential move to Red Bull for 2019.

Red Bull has signed up Pierre Gasly to replace Daniel Ricciardo, even though Spaniard Sainz - on loan to Renault this year - was initially the clear favourite.

Some suggested Dutchman Verstappen vetoed Sainz's move, citing problems together at Toro Rosso some years ago.

"I don't know where that comes from, because Max is one of the drivers I have the best relationship with in the paddock," Sainz told the Dutch publication Formule 1.

As for the talk of a 'veto', Sainz added: "He would never do that.

"I can only be grateful to Red Bull for giving me the opportunity to reach formula one and drive for different teams. The fact that I didn't end with a Red Bull seat does not mean that it will never happen."

Oh RIGHT then, so if it wasn't a Verstappen veto, nor Red Bull fears of a clash between the pair of them, then it must just be because they think you're shitter than Gasly then?  <facepalm>

Perhaps next time think before you speak, Carlos?

(Unless of course he was being pressured -- but how? -- by Red Bull to deny it on their behalf...)

Ambient Sheep

Not sure if it's worth posting in this thread any more these days, but just in case, saw this and made laughing noises:

https://sniffpetrol.com/2019/05/20/alonso-gets-closer-to-achieving-mclaren-triple-crown-of-disappointment/

Ambient Sheep

I see Ferrari have gone out of their way to screw Leclerc again...

Alberon

They've fallen apart. They can't make obvious strategy decisions quickly enough in races plus they're not fast enough. Now this cock-up. Leclerc has every right to be pissed off.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Come on Max, liven things up today

Shoulders?-Stomach!

One of those races that totally pulls you back into the sport.

Blumf

How long did it take for the migraine to stop after the Paul Ricard track last week?

Watching the highlights of today's race now, certainly looking good so far.

Alberon

F1 almost shot itself in the foot with that long long stewards investigation, but thankfully managed to come to the right result.

A much better race. It even had moments of excitement. Shame this sort of race is the exception not the usual state of affairs.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Seemed mainly down to the extreme weather and a genuinely split strategy, but Verstappen going into anti stall at the start meant we had that nice blend of variables.

Leclerc is quick and a mature racer but his combination of bad luck and being on the receiving end of sucker punches does make you wonder if we have a new champion in the making or another Webber/Bottas/Barrichello type unlucky loser character in the making.

Ambient Sheep

#346
In case anybody's not aware, there's been some major hilarity regarding Rich Energy and Haas.  Seems that after losing the Whyte Bikes trademark court case, Rich Energy's interesting CEO William Storey may have had a meltdown and tweeted this:

https://twitter.com/rich_energy/status/1148994221686370304
QuoteToday @rich_energy terminated our contract with @HaasF1Team for poor performance. We aim to beat @redbullracing & being behind @WilliamsRacing in Austria is unacceptable. The politics and PC attitude in @F1 is also inhibiting our business. We wish the team well #F1 #richenergy

Why a meltdown?  Because it's apparently not true, and his investors have issued a statement saying the tweet was "regrettable", "unauthorised" and that:

Quote"Clearly the rogue actions of one individual have caused great embarrassment. We are in the process of legally removing the individual from all executive responsibilities. They may speak for themselves but their views are not those of the company."

Bye-bye Mr. Storey I think.

You can follow the unfolding story from the following links, but really my main purpose in posting this is to suggest you go and read all the amusing replies to that tweet before they manage to rubber-hose-cryptanalyse the account's password out of him and kill it.

Wed 21:49 -- https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rich-ends-haas-sponsorship-twitter/4492155/

Thu 10:03 -- https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rich-energy-investors-save-haas-deal/4492346/

Thu 13:21 --
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/haas-rich-energy-british-gp/4492480/

Thu 15:59 --
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rich-energy-remove-storey-embarrassment-haas/4492643/

Hah!!  Just noticed that the URL on that last article names who the text itself very carefully does not!




EDIT: What appears to be the full statement from the Rich Energy shareholders is available here: https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/23618
I can't seem to find a "horse's mouth" copy at the moment, but that looks as close as we're going to get.

Quote"The shareholders who own the majority of Rich Energy would like to clarify certain statements that have been circulated in the media from an unauthorised source," read a statement.

"We wholeheartedly believe in the Haas F1 Team, its performance, and the organisation as a whole, and we are fully committed to the current sponsorship agreement in place.

"We also completely believe in the product of Formula 1 and the platform it affords our brand.

"Clearly the rogue actions of one individual have caused great embarrassment. We are in the process of legally removing the individual from all executive responsibilities. They may speak for themselves but their view are not those of the company.

"The incident is very regrettable; we will not be making further comment on this commercially sensitive matter and will be concluding it behind closed doors.

"We wish to confirm our commitment to the Haas F1 Team, Formula 1 and to thank Haas F1 Team for their support and patience whilst this matter is dealt with internally."

Anyway, go read the tweet replies while you still can. :-)

Ambient Sheep

And so it turns out that while I was writing that last night, Mr. Storey took to Twitter again:

https://twitter.com/rich_energy/status/1149385021750464512

Quote@rich_energy CEO @_williamstorey has commented "The ludicrous statement by minority shareholders cosy with @redbull & @WhyteBikes is risible. Their attempted palace coup has failed. I control all of the assets of @rich_energy & have support of all key stakeholders" #RichEnergy

Some serious conspiracy theorising going on there!

The first reply (if you look via the app) is that GIF of a dumpster floating downstream in a flash flood.  That is also on fire.
https://twitter.com/ChefWayner/status/1149385900209639426


(See also https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rich-energy-ceo-haas-coup-tweet/4492868/ )

Alberon

I'd been aware of the basic story but not all those details. With all the problems Haas has been having the last thing they needed was the CEO of their chief sponsor going tonto.

Ambient Sheep

Meant to post this last night:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/whyte-bikes-rich-energy-logo-case/4493480/

Surprise, surprise, he hasn't paid up the £35,416 to Whyte Bikes and they're now threatening to wind up the company and make him personally bankrupt.  Meanwhile he's published a letter allegedly from Haas' lawyers to one of those other shareholders basically saying Great Lads, If You Can Do It But...

Quote from: Haas' lawyers, apparently...given the information available at Companies House on Rich Energy Limited, including its shareholder base, we are somewhat at a loss as to how you will be able to wrestle control of the company from Mr. Storey.

...thus apparently proving that whatever those other shareholders think, he continues to control the company.

Or does he, as some of the commenters are pointing out that the letter might be a fake!




Anyway today he's then gone on to Tweet:
https://www.twitter.com/rich_energy/status/1149924686807076864

QuoteFollowing a board meeting of Rich Energy Ltd chaired by CEO William Storey and in light of the treacherous conduct of minority stakeholders the exclusive rights to distribute @rich_energy have been transferred to another company. Mr Storey retains complete ownership #RichEnergy

At which point several commenters point out things like

QuoteTranslated: "In advance of a winding up petition i've tried to move an asset into a seperate company, because they definitely won't see that coming."  Anyway if clownshoes owns 100% of the new company and there's a personal bankruptcy petition looming, he's just taken a liability.
QuoteHe could also be found in contempt of court if he is attempting to avoid paying Whyte and disclosing the financial details of the company as per the court order by moving assets etc away from it...
QuoteYou muppet! If Rich Energy file for insolvency, it's highly likely the transfer will be undone as it's not only a fraudulent transfer but likely to be deemed harmful to and avoidance of creditors such as @WhyteBikes a receiver will unwind this
QuoteAnd he will be held in contempt of court.

Should have settled out of court when he had the chance. Now he's losing his little project and potentially his freedom.
QuoteStarting a new company won't magically solve all your troubles. You still owe Whyte money. The new company still can't use the logo and you still owe your investors vast amounts of money.

*fetches popcorn*

Oh, and there was also this, from back in April:
https://jalopnik.com/what-you-find-when-you-look-into-rich-energy-the-myste-1833303620

Blumf

Weird story, although I have definitely seen Rich Energy cans in the shops at some point.

Presumably there is cash being received by Hass F1, they're not just taking IOUs.

Ambient Sheep

Allegedly they got it all up front, I read somewhere, but we shall see.  Maybe they got the first half of the season's money up front with the second half to follow later, as I gather that's not uncommon in F1 circles.  That would also make sense that now is the time to cancel it, to avoid the second instalment, in which case they may well end up removing the livery after this race if the latter doesn't turn up.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Chris Grayling on the podium there.


Alberon

The Rich Energy story continues.

Quote@HaasF1Team love @rich_energy so much (we don't blame them as #betterthanredbull ) they have kept our brand livery on the car even after we sacked them for poor performance! #RichEnergy #F1 #BritishGP2019 #business #worldclass #onyerbike #nobull

Rich Energy's out of control CEO then went on to laugh at Haas' dismal performance today.

Quote from: Kevin StoreyGreat start boys

Ambient Sheep

Hah!!  But the more you think about that image, the less it makes sense... why would HE be driving the Haas milkfloat, and doing it while drinking a can of Rich Energy surely isn't a very good endorsement of its performance-enhancing qualities, is it?  Not to mention all the crates in the back are empty...

It seems to me like an image that someone else would have made to take the piss out of both Haas AND him, and that he's used it without realising that.  Idiot.




Which in a way is not too dissimilar to his latest stunt: tweeting a letter from Haas' lawyers to him, just to prove that Haas had accepted he'd terminated the contract... seemingly without realising that the rest of it makes him look like a massive dick...


Shoulders?-Stomach!

22 races next year!

What a joke. Money grabbing fucking twats.

So much for keeping down costs for the smaller teams.

Blumf

And how many of them do we get to see live without pumping Murdoch's stock?

mojo filters

Quote from: Blumf on August 29, 2019, 01:15:46 PM
And how many of them do we get to see live without pumping Murdoch's stock?

Sky was bought out by US based media conglomerate Comcast in October 2018, parent to the NBCUniversal family.

Pump Murdoch as you see fit.

To be fair he did own a significant percentage of Sky when the dumb UK media exclusivity deal was done with Bernie Ecclestone (following several similar short-term profit-oriented deals with other European broadcasters) which also precludes Liberty Media from offering their nascent but promising OTT service to UK F1 fans.

Ambient Sheep

The new calendar wasn't a surprise.  As much as I dislike the man's sexual politics, Joe Saward announced it over three weeks ago (albeit saying "with the proviso that it might not be 100 percent correct", but he got it spot on), and he'd been talking about 22 races for a while before that.

I really pity all those mechanics and so on.  I have enough trouble finding time to watch all the races these days, even just as Channel 4 highlights.


Good to see Ocon finally getting a drive again.  Will be interesting to see how he does against Ricciardo; or rather, perhaps, vice-versa.

Feel sorry for Bottas in a way.  It must really fuck his head up to know that (a) apparently Toto wanted Ocon but only stuck with Valtteri because all his engineers and Lewis persuaded him otherwise*, and (b) Lewis only wants him because he knows he won't be too much of a threat.


* - and to be honest I think they were right to do so; stability is what's needed, not Perez/Ocon-style demolition derbies.

Ambient Sheep

Very sad news.

A Formula 2 driver, Anthoine Hubert, age 22, was killed at Spa today.  Apparently he came off at Eau Rouge, bounced off the barrier, span back across the track, and was hit sideways on by another driver, Juan Manuel Correa, who's still in hospital himself in a stable condition.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/motor-racing/anthoine-hubert-dead-f2-crash-video-driver-dies-cause-of-death-belgium-gran-prix-a9086821.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/49537761

According to this Digital Spy post, the author of which has watched fan footage, Hubert went off because Giuliano Alesi (Jean's son)'s car lost control and banged into him.  Alesi himself also crashed and was taken to the medical centre for check-ups but was released physically unharmed.  Also, it seems that poor Hubert got hit on the same side of the car that the barriers had already destroyed.

It possibly wasn't instant; he was allegedly conscious while extracted and wasn't declared dead until 88 minutes after the accident (17:07 to 18:35 local time).  Can only imagine massive internal bleeding or something.  Poor guy.  RIP.