The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)

[Ambient Sheep]

Former F1 chief medic Gary Hartstein's had enough too.  Also his parting rant includes the following fascinating snippet:

Here's a scoop: there will soon be published, in an international peer-reviewed journal, a scientific paper demolishing the current system of extrication that has not been changed in over 20 years, despite dramatic advances in this field. The lack of knowledge and experience at the medical lead is so blatant that several Chief Medical Officers of the F1 season are worried that by following existent FIA protocol they are making themselves vulnerable to medico-legal consequences by failing to follow current standards of care. Read that again. This from a sport that purports to be at the leading edge of everything.

Also, on the subject of little snippets, apparently the Alonso crash was caused by the Haas car going into energy recovery mode - thus suddenly decelerating - at the exact moment Alonso made his move.

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http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/36086363

Nothing new but an acute reminder of what an all round poisonous tosser he is.

Leila Lombardi is a minor heroine of mine and frankly anyone who could drive a mid-70s f1 car to the points could cope with the physical demands of a modern F1 car.

However as he so keenly persists on illustrating, he never lets things like facts shape his prejudices.

Why can't he just die, please?

[Blumf]

Much like Mr. Cunt of Death, Bernie has lost the cheeky edge and is now just depressingly offensive.

Something has to give soon, but who's got the skills and opportunity to take over?

[Blumf]

Kvyat could at least offer Vettel a reach around.

[Ambient Sheep]

For anyone who hasn't heard yet, Red Bull have swapped over Verstappen and Kyvat with immediate effect.

Informed speculation says that this is less to do with Kyvat's performance in Russia (which is just being used as the excuse) and more down to the fact that both Mercedes and Ferrari are hotly chasing Max for a drive, and this way Red Bull get to lock him down for a few more years with a fresh contract.

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2016/05/05/verstappen-for-red-bull/
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2016/05/05/a-new-deal-for-max/

This was pretty much always going to happen anyway at the end of the year, this just brings it forward.  Looking at it that way makes it slightly less harsh.

Meanwhile spare a thought for Carlos Sainz Jr., who can be pretty much sure that he won't have a drive after the end of this year...

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Yeah, Kvyat was getting hooked out of that seat come what may, and that incident was the merest pretext for it.

Imagine if he had linked together a few podiums though, he would've made them look even more like the most desperate cynical dickheads than they do already.

The comments about it being good for Kvyat's development are meaningless empty waffle - he's older, was already promoted (and was doing ok, better than I thought he would), and there'll be nowhere for him to go now as he sure as shit isn't getting a Red Bull drive outside of the soapbox derby.

The odd thing is I think promoting Verstappen right now will probably result in him exiting the Red Bull stable earlier, especially if he spends a couple of seasons with a limited engine. Ferrari will look to replace Raikonnen and I can't see Rosberg and Hamilton remaining part of a team past this season unless Rosberg wins the title.

Would secretly love it if Ricciardo steamrollered Max for the rest of the season.

[Ambient Sheep]

Not so sure that Räikkönen will get replaced, actually.

I know that seems rather incredible, but apparently it's the old story of them not wanting a driver who will stress Vettel out too much... far better to have a dedicated number two who knows he's lucky to be there, than have two warring hot-shots.  So although he may get replaced, it's by no means the sure-thing that a lot of people are assuming, especially now that Max is off the market.

If Max were still available, that might be different.

Would secretly love it if Ricciardo steamrollered Max for the rest of the season.

I doubt he will though.  More likely to be the other way round.

I suppose this will also be interesting in terms of being able to compare Kyvat with Sainz.  If Ricciardo does manage to get a Ferrari drive, and Sainz beats Kyvat at STR, then he may yet get promoted up to Red Bull alongside his old teammate Verstappen for 2017.


Talking of acting like a steamroller in a different way, that's probably what really did for Kyvat, to be honest -- the fact that his clumsy actions bolloxed up Ricciardo's race twice in a row.  Teams can't afford that.

[Ambient Sheep]

Hah!  So do we think Ricciardo was sandbagging through Q1 & Q2 just so he could fuck with Verstappen's head by breezing past him in Q3?

I really did think that Verstappen had that in the bag until Q3, in which case I guess Helmut Marko would have been totally vindicated...


Meanwhile, it seems that Ben Edwards is slowly turning into Murray Walker... earlier in the season I thought it was just jet-lag, but the number of cock-ups in today's broadcast was getting embarrassing.  Still prefer him to any other commentator though.

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First live race of the season for me. Combination of other plans and lack of effort on my part.

Spanish gp isn't often a classic but f1 is about living in hope.

Surprised to see that Welsh T4 bloke or whoever he is presenting!

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That ought to do it!!

[Ambient Sheep]

Numpties!

The Great Moustache will not be impressed.

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In the middle of all that Sainz made it up to third - with Ferrari being the quicker car on paper this could be a classic.

Funny feeling Master Verstappen might have his Vettel at Monza moment today.

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Surprised to see that Welsh T4 bloke or whoever he is presenting!

I think everyone was.  He was a bit insufferable to start with, but either he's calmed down a bit or I've got used to him.  Unlike Jake Humphrey, he wasn't a lifelong F1 fan, but he did watch every single qually and race from last year as part of his research.

Have to say, C4's coverage is excellent, arguably even better than the BBC's was, certainly better than since the BBC split with Sky; the highlights programmes still have a fairly full intro and outro (including gridwalk) as if it were a live show, whereas the Beeb never bothered on those weekends.  I guess having the production company part-owned by Coulthard helps.

The only thing that gets on my tits (apart from Steve Jones occasionally) is that godawful dubstep noise they use on some of the break bumpers.

[Ambient Sheep]

In the middle of all that Sainz made it up to third - with Ferrari being the quicker car on paper this could be a classic.

Funny feeling Master Verstappen might have his Vettel at Monza moment today.

Yup, the thought crossed my mind too... :-)

[Ambient Sheep]

Interesting that Button ended up ahead of such a canny racer as Alonso despite starting two places behind him.

Don't suppose it will last, though. ;-)

Ah, and now JB's stopped, so a moot point.

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Split strategies here so it's going to be Verstappen maybe at the front at the end on wearing tyres.

[Ambient Sheep]

Awwww diddums, Vettel...

We must give him some toys to throw out of his cockpit every time someone goes to overtake him.

[Ambient Sheep]

Congratulations, Max!!

Was fascinated by the stat about 10 different winners in the last 10 years, especially at such a (so we thought) predictable Grand Prix.  So I looked it up:

2016 -	Max Verstappen	Red Bull-Tag Heuer
2015 -	Nico Rosberg	Mercedes
2014 -	Lewis Hamilton	Mercedes
2013 -	Fernando Alonso	Ferrari
2012 -	Pastor Maldonado	Williams–Renault
2011 -	Sebastian Vettel	Red Bull–Renault
2010 -	Mark Webber	Red Bull–Renault
2009 -	Jenson Button	Brawn–Mercedes
2008 -	Kimi Räikkönen	Ferrari
2007 -	Felipe Massa	Ferrari

Then Alonso again in 2006, Räikkönen in 2005, then four Schumachers, three Häkkinens, one Villeneuve and so on...

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Max and Pastor's victories were reasonably similar, except Max had the extraordinary good fortune of two faster cars knocking each other out, and then the team stuffing up Ricciardo's strategy royally. Even then Vettel shoukd have won but amazingly Ferrari fucked that up too!

It was hardly a man overconing his machinery but the bottle and lack of errors under pressure was very impressive. He never appears his age - I would easily place him at early 20s in physique and demeanour.

[Ambient Sheep]

...Max had the extraordinary good fortune of two faster cars knocking each other out, and then the team stuffing up Ricciardo's strategy royally. Even then Vettel shoukd have won but amazingly Ferrari fucked that up too!

Yeah, I'm trying not to be too cynical about all this... for that way lies madness.

Can't believe it's four years since Maldonado's surprise win.  Have to say, I was very cynical about that one at the time, coming as it did so close to FW's 70th birthday...

[Ambient Sheep]

Hah, and just after I typed that, Christian Horner says (approx., I don't have rewind facilities here right now):

"We've had some freak results at this track before, like Pastor Maldonado four years ago, but this was pure performance."[nb]Allowing for the fact that both Mercedes took themselves out, eh, Christian?[/nb]

Just bad phrasing, or something else?


I know people have suggested it to Joe Saward on his blog before, and he's strongly indicated that he thought that P.M.'s win really was genuine... which he hasn't always with other things.  So who knows?

[Ambient Sheep]

STOP MENTIONING JAPAN 1990 TO ALAIN PROST!!! :-D

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I'm sure Maldonado's win was genuine - Alonso didn't have the balls to make a lunge into turn 1, much like Hamilton didn't the year Vettel won. The Williams was quick too- similar to Red Bull, not the quickest in terms of performance but enough there on strategy and neat driving to get it done.

The idea of Maldonado getting a big drive would have been great. He showed in GP2 he was a decent front runner but he could never deal with wheel-to-wheel racing. When you look at guys like Alonso and Vettel their precision is like a fighter pilot's. Not his. It would have been pure entertainment. The race where he took out Hamilton defending third place - (...street circuit - it may have been Valencia) was one of the most simultaneously horrific/amusing events I can remember, simply because it was so astoundingly predictable.

As soon as Raikkonen was the one behind Max I thought he either isn't going to get close to making a move or he's going to take him out a la Sutil/Bottas (and a few others in his career). He's so half-hearted these days.

[Ambient Sheep]

The race where he took out Hamilton defending third place - (...street circuit - it may have been Valencia) was one of the most simultaneously horrific/amusing events I can remember, simply because it was so astoundingly predictable.

Yes, that's where P.M. was great value, that whole sitting-on-the-edge-of-your-seat doing the "Who's he going to take out this time?" game. :-)

As soon as Raikkonen was the one behind Max I thought he either isn't going to get close to making a move or he's going to take him out a la Sutil/Bottas (and a few others in his career). He's so half-hearted these days.

I didn't even think he was even gonna try to take him.  Half-hearted is absolutely the word(s).


Seems Ricciardo is going to be kicking up a stink, strongly implying that Red Bull deliberately shafted his strategy to give Max the win.  Even before he said that, people on Digital Spy are floating that idea too.  Shame that Max's victory is gonna be a bit tainted by that, but I can imagine that D.R. does have questions...


Meanwhile, Hamilton v. Rosberg?  I thought they were being remarkably generous to Lewis; from where I'm sitting it looks like he was headed for the grass even before Rosberg shut the door.  I'd make it between 75/25 to 85/15 Lewis' fault.

[PAGATRON]

Meanwhile, Hamilton v. Rosberg?  I thought they were being remarkably generous to Lewis; from where I'm sitting it looks like he was headed for the grass even before Rosberg shut the door.  I'd make it between 75/25 to 85/15 Lewis' fault.

You should see from where Antony Davidson is sitting

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First instinct was that Hamilton had recognised Rosberg was edging him out and took the risk of trying to take him via the grass. It looks more like Rosberg's fault from Hamilton's camera, but Hamilton made the decision, exposed them both to the risk in that decision and it was therefore his fault.

Mind you, Rosberg spent 15 laps in Bahrain doing the exact same thing a few years ago so if the roles were reverse I think the same would have happened.

Vettel & Alonso at Monza a few years ago also springs to mind. Accelerating F1 cars in a straight line on grass, not easy.

[PAGATRON]

First instinct was that Hamilton had recognised Rosberg was edging him out and took the risk of trying to take him via the grass. It looks more like Rosberg's fault from Hamilton's camera, but Hamilton made the decision, exposed them both to the risk in that decision and it was therefore his fault.

Did you see the speed Lewis was catching Nico, what was he suppose to have done?
Nico was energy harvest mode and was a sitting duck but why defend so aggressively?

Can you tell I'm passionate about this?

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Did you see the speed Lewis was catching Nico, what was he suppose to have done?

Well, as Ant's piece points out, Lewis had to choose left or right, or decelerate. It's all very well saying 'he's never going to pull out at that point'- that's a racing driver's comment and be that as it may, that involves accelerating on grass. It's still a choice. Hamilton then positioned his car on the grass but had enough space and time then to choose whether to accelerate or decelerate - he chose to accelerate, spun the rear on the grass, and Rosberg was unlucky to have been collected.

I agree that it looks like Rosberg was distracted by his in-car issues and his move was therefore rather jerky and half a second after when it ordinarily would have been. This no doubt contributed but to say that's his fault is unfair. It's a pretty watertight mitigation.

[PAGATRON]

Well, as Ant's piece points out, Lewis had to choose left or right, or decelerate. It's all very well saying 'he's never going to pull out at that point'- that's a racing driver's comment and be that as it may, that involves accelerating on grass. It's still a choice. Hamilton then positioned his car on the grass but had enough space and time then to choose whether to accelerate or decelerate - he chose to accelerate, spun the rear on the grass, and Rosberg was unlucky to have been collected.

I agree that it looks like Rosberg was distracted by his in-car issues and his move was therefore rather jerky and half a second after when it ordinarily would have been. This no doubt contributed but to say that's his fault is unfair. It's a pretty watertight mitigation.

Yeah about 1cm of space and 0.1sec of time, what was his other options try and pass him on the left, what if Nico junk left forcing him wide again.
He could decelerate but at that closing speed he'll have to slam on the brakes killing the tyres leaving him a sitting duck to everyone behind.

[Ambient Sheep]

According to Joe Saward's trailer for the upcoming Grandprixplus magazine:

It seemed however that Nico Rosberg was in the wrong engine mode, for reasons that are not entirely clear, and was travelling slower than Lewis Hamilton expected and he had to take action to avoid a crash, but had one anyway when he spun on the grass.

So maybe more to it than just energy-harvesting... or maybe that's all he means.