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SPECTRE

Started by Norton Canes, December 04, 2014, 11:49:21 AM

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CaledonianGonzo

I think with Skyfall they were just trying to puzzle out a suitably upbeat ending after the death of M, particularly given the 'smooching with a Bond Girl in an exotic location' option wasn't open to them.  It's clear from the rest of the movie that he's "been" James Bond for years now.

Milverton

Monica Belucci. Sigh.

A proper "gun barrel" opening please this time. At the blimming start.

CaledonianGonzo

I'd be flabbergasted if it doesn't start things up this time around.

Though I can buy Mendes' argument that the gunbarrel would have spoiled the (superb) opening shot of Skyfall.

greenman

Quote from: Kelvin on December 05, 2014, 12:29:47 AM
The fact it's short and tight[nb]New porn laws meant I had to remove a joke here.[/nb] are strengths, in of themselves, I agree, and the relationship and Bond's motivation are indeed rich areas they could have explored - but instead, squander and waste in the most spectacularly superficial and unmemorable way. Even if recent offerings have been overlong - and I'd say that was more of a problem with Casino Royale than Skyfall - they all contain several brilliant action scenes and a handful of memorable dramatic/character moments. QOS is the one, solitary Bond film where the action scenes are the weak points, and as I said before, in execution, almost nothing stands out about it. Except, I'm legally obliged to add, the Opera scene. :)

I felt the dogfight scene at least was very memorable and the hotel blowing up at the end was pretty good as well, not as good as the best stuff from the films either side of it but a cut above your typical Hollywood actioner. The Bourne camera work in the first 15 mins was a bit annoying but it settled down a lot after that.

Generally though I seem to be alone in liking all three of the Craig era Bonds alot, well besides the god aweful Jack White song.


El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: greenman on December 05, 2014, 04:46:44 PM

Generally though I seem to be alone in liking all three of the Craig era Bonds alot, well besides the god aweful Jack White song.

I like them all, particularly Casino Royale. Aside from the disappointing theme tune, I think it might be the best of all the Bond films.

MojoJojo

Quote from: Leo2112 on December 04, 2014, 09:39:07 PM
It's actually a good opportunity to 'finish' the Quantum stuff in a way, perhaps with a throwaway line about how it evolved into the more effective SPECTRE or something.  I think the Quantum storyline was handled rather sloppily anyway, but at least it would give a small sense of closure and continuity to the Craig era.

Hmmm is there anything that specifically ties stuff to SPECTRE in Quantum - I can't remember it too well. In the book of Casino Royale it's SMERSH (Ruskies) that kill Lynd[nb]alright, drive her to suicide[/nb] and that's the organisation Bond's after in Quantum. But I can't remember how the organisation is described in the films, except something vague about being secret and terrorist and international so it's probably too close to Spectre if it really to work as a separate group.

My memory is so shit they could have been calling it Spectre all the time and I would have forgotten.

Ant Farm Keyboard

#37
Quote from: VegaLA on December 05, 2014, 12:31:05 AM
I believe there was a writers strike and they had to rewrite some of the screenplay during production. Craig himself wrote some of his own dialogue for the movie.

During the strike the only persons who are allowed to rewrite scenes and dialog are the director (for anything) and the actors, with their own lines. Craig didn't say he rewrote the film, more that they tried to, because the script was unfinished (Paul Haggis didn't have much time to tinker with it), and that they couldn't do much, because he and Marc Foster weren't writers, and didn't have a real clue about what to change.

To clarify the QUANTUM/SPECTRE stuff...
- at the end of Casino Royale, Bond heard about a secret organization that had Mr. White as a member
- during Quantum of Solace, he loses Mr. White, and meets another head of the organization, Mr. Green, and overhears a meeting between members at the opera (the scene that works in the film), realizing it has ties with many people, including influent MPs. The organization is revealed as being named QUANTUM.

At the time, QUANTUM was their attempt to have a recurring villain that wouldn't be SPECTRE, due to the legal issues about it. For instance, they didn't have a chief named Schmofeld, they had a collegial direction. It was the first time they tried something like this since the time they wanted to use Blofeld again for The Spy Who Loved Me before McClory threatened to sue them, and they rewrote the character as Stromberg.

- Skyfall was a one-off planned to be out of the QUANTUM arc

- John Logan started to write a script for Bond 24 around 2012-2013, while negotiations were still ongoing with the estate of Kevin McClory. When EON bought all the rights from the estate, it was a given that Broccoli and Wilson would request that the script would deal with the thing they had just purchased, presumably for a good sum of money

So either QUANTUM split between the events of QoS and Spectre, and parts of them joined Blofeld's SPECTRE (similar to what happened in the books for SMERSH) or it was a front from the very beginning for SPECTRE, or one guy took control of QUANTUM and renamed it SPECTRE. We'll see.

CaledonianGonzo

A reasoned argument that they really shouldn't give a shit about trying to make it all tie together with a movie from 6 years ago that a lot of people hated:

http://badassdigest.com/2014/12/04/should-spectre-destroy-quantum-or-forget-it-ever-happened/

amputeeporn

Well, apparently Mr White's back. If Spectre's to be any kind of meaningful threat, they should eradicate Quantum in the opening scene. Perhaps Quantum are doing something heinous and, just at the crucial moment, a man stops them. But it's not Bond, it's the man from Spectre - and rather than carry on where Quantum left off, he does something 100 times worse.

Announces them, their threat and gets rid of Quantum.

An tSaoi

Quantum of Solace is such a shit name for an action film. A quantum is a small amount, and solace is relief or comfort. So the title is basically "A Little Bit of Peace and Quiet". Terrible.

Leo2112

#41
It's kind of odd that the Craig Bond hasn't really had much in the way of a 'regular' Bond adventure yet.  Casino Royale is the closest, but that's more of an origin story (which still has Quantum stuff appended to it and a kind of 'unfinished' ending).  QoS is a story that is more a continuation of the previous film than its own thing.  In Skyfall poor Bond is constantly being told how old and useless he is (which to be fair for the latter he is for most/all of the film).  The plot is also quite invested in the M story.  Kind of hoped he'd just get a decent stand alone film next, but perhaps with all this Quantum/SPECTRE politics it may get continuity heavy again.     

CaledonianGonzo

Quote from: An tSaoi on December 06, 2014, 01:04:24 AM
Quantum of Solace is such a shit name for an action film. A quantum is a small amount, and solace is relief or comfort. So the title is basically "A Little Bit of Peace and Quiet". Terrible.

Lots of trad Bond fans howling with rage that this one's not called The Property Of A Lady or The Hildebrand Rarity.

CaledonianGonzo

Quote from: Leo2112 on December 06, 2014, 03:32:38 AM
It's kind of odd that the Craig Bond hasn't really had much in the way of a 'regular' Bond adventure yet.  Casino Royale is the closest, but that's more of an origin story (which still has Quantum stuff appended to it and a kind of 'unfinished' ending).  QoS is a story that is more a continuation of the previous film than its own thing.  In Skyfall poor Bond is constantly being told how old and useless he is (which to be fair for the latter he is for most/all of the film). 

Which makes it a lot closer to Fleming than something like Octopussy.

When so many people want different things from the movies I'm pretty sympathetic to the near-impossible task they've got of keeping everybody happy.  Steven Moffat has the same problem, which ties in with the article above about ignoring continuity and fan service and just trying to find the best story to tell.

greenman

Quote from: CaledonianGonzo on December 06, 2014, 06:05:56 AM
Which makes it a lot closer to Fleming than something like Octopussy.

When so many people want different things from the movies I'm pretty sympathetic to the near-impossible task they've got of keeping everybody happy.  Steven Moffat has the same problem, which ties in with the article above about ignoring continuity and fan service and just trying to find the best story to tell.

More impressive I would say given that we saw how "looking to please everyone" could go so badly wrong with the Bronholm films post Goldeneye.

Mr White being included does make it pretty clear there's going to be some link to Quantum. Whilst I would agree its hardly essential to tie them together(for one thing Skyfall gives the impression a good deal of time has passed relative to the previous two films, could be enough for them to have been eliminated or broken up) as was mentioned earlier Quantum would be an easy way to setup Blofeld and Spectre by showing them to somehow present an even bigger threat.

Honestly though Quantum as the main threat just seemed rather played out, Mr Green as a fake environmentalist and water over oil were a reasonably interesting direction to go but besides that I didn't see how things could be taken much further without becoming a distraction. Mr White as a neo Blofeld seemed like the best thing it had to offer but Christoph Waltz as the real thing not tied down to a bunch of less interesting shadowy business leaders and politicans seems a better alternative.

Mister Six

Quote from: CaledonianGonzo on December 06, 2014, 06:00:57 AM
Lots of trad Bond fans howling with rage that this one's not called The Property Of A Lady or The Hildebrand Rarity.

Isn't there a third, rather cool-sounding Bond short story title that still hasn't been used yet? Something like Serpico, Scorpio, something like that.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Quote from: Kelvin on December 04, 2014, 11:49:05 PM
Quantum of Solace is such an obvious rush job. It's got almost no plot, rushed character beats, a forgettable script, a weak villain, unforgivably humdrum action scenes and a director who doesn't know how to film action. It's the one where people say "I quite like the opera scene".

Probably because there's an opera scene in it. :)

You are so wrong it seems an insult to almost acknowledge you've actually typed anything.

El Unicornio, mang

#47
Quote from: Mister Six on December 06, 2014, 03:40:54 PM
Isn't there a third, rather cool-sounding Bond short story title that still hasn't been used yet? Something like Serpico, Scorpio, something like that.

Risico? That one was rumoured to be the story used for the one after Casino Royale, but they already used the main story/characters from that for For Your Eyes Only. It would make a good title though.

I think the only Fleming story not to be used at all is 007 in New York

QuoteA brief tale in which Bond muses about New York City and his favourite recipe for scrambled eggs, during a quick mission to the titular city to warn a female MI6 employee that her new boyfriend is a KGB agent. It is notable for including a rare humorous conclusion and for its mention of Solange, a young lady of Bond's intimate acquaintance who works in a shop, Abercrombie's, "appropriately employed in their Indoor Games Department".

I mean, they could try to make an exciting two and a half hour movie out of that...

MuteBanana

I cannot find it but this is in response to someone saying Andrew Scott is a bad actor.

I'm not a fanboy. I loved him in Sherlock though and found these gifs amusing.



El Unicornio, mang


Don_Preston

Quote from: An tSaoi on December 06, 2014, 01:04:24 AM
Quantum of Solace is such a shit name for an action film. A quantum is a small amount, and solace is relief or comfort. So the title is basically "A Little Bit of Peace and Quiet". Terrible.

Or Little Relief, ergo Bloody Intense Headache time.

kidsick5000

Quote from: An tSaoi on December 06, 2014, 01:04:24 AM
Quantum of Solace is such a shit name for an action film. A quantum is a small amount, and solace is relief or comfort. So the title is basically "A Little Bit of Peace and Quiet". Terrible.

Yes. That was pointed out a lot in 2008.

I still like it. It works well as Casino Royale pt2. Could have been an interesting experiment in making Daniel Craig's run a continuous movie - before the financial trouble stunned the franchise into inertia

I like this idea of Spectre being the extremist breakaway faction of Quantum – which it has to be said was more about quiet usurping of power through financial deals, rather than all out BLOW UP ZE VURLD style terror.

Norton Canes

Quote from: An tSaoi on December 06, 2014, 01:04:24 AM
Quantum of Solace is such a shit name for an action film. A quantum is a small amount, and solace is relief or comfort. So the title is basically "A Little Bit of Peace and Quiet". Terrible

It's a great title. The implication, I suppose, is that nothing more than an iota of consolation will remain after some cataclysmic event has taken its toll.

Looking forward to the bit in SPECTRE when they have to reveal what the acronym stands for. I am guessing there will be some bewildered glances between characters, accompanied possibly by some caustic comic remark if it's MI6 personnel.

kidsick5000

Quote from: Norton Canes on December 16, 2014, 10:53:17 AM


It's a great title. The implication, I suppose, is that nothing more than an iota of consolation will remain after some cataclysmic event has taken its toll.

It does fit the story. Bond gets a small revenge, especially on the fake boyfriend who he gets to pulp offscreen, and Camille gets in a small way to avenge her parents.

CaledonianGonzo

Got to spend the next YEAR avoiding plot spoilers on this :o(

kidsick5000

Quote from: CaledonianGonzo on December 16, 2014, 12:18:38 PM
Got to spend the next YEAR avoiding plot spoilers on this :o(

Good luck with that. I guess they managed to keep Moneypenny under wraps until the very last[nb]aka Baz Bamigboye deciding he's above keeping secrets and deciding to show off[/nb], but I can't see it happening this time

Mark Steels Stockbroker

Quote from: An tSaoi on December 06, 2014, 01:04:24 AM
Quantum of Solace is such a shit name for an action film. A quantum is a small amount, and solace is relief or comfort. So the title is basically "A Little Bit of Peace and Quiet". Terrible.

The original short story was about a man whose wife had lots of affairs, and it pushed him to the point where the "quantum of solace" he had in their relationship was destroyed and he couldn't take any more of it.

Mark Steels Stockbroker

Quote from: Mister Six on December 06, 2014, 03:40:54 PM
Isn't there a third, rather cool-sounding Bond short story title that still hasn't been used yet? Something like Serpico, Scorpio, something like that.

Risico. The plot was used in the film of For Your Eyes Only.

Mark Steels Stockbroker

Quote from: CaledonianGonzo on December 06, 2014, 06:05:56 AM
Steven Moffat has the same problem, which ties in with the article above about ignoring continuity and fan service and just trying to find the best story to tell.

Yet we still ended up with a Cyber Brigadier saluting the Doctor.

gatchamandave

Quote from: Mark Steels Stockbroker on December 21, 2014, 01:00:17 PM
Yet we still ended up with a Cyber Brigadier saluting the Doctor.
Other way round, chum.