Author Topic: "Betrayed By New Labour"  (Read 1077 times)

"Betrayed By New Labour"
« on: September 20, 2004, 05:38:19 AM »
Greg Dyke's 45min whinge on Ch4 last night.

i thought it was fucking fantastic. there were bits that annoyed the hell out of me ("when we were having a dinner party in my Islington flat.... we thought  Tony was a bit posh".... the media love-in that was half the interviews, and Greg Dyke repeatedly climbing on his cross), but that just helped make it the fantastic program that it was.


best bits? Greg reading about five letters with the prefix "this was a confidential letter form Alistair/Tony...",  and the Campbell/Snow interview i'd missed first time round.

<paraphrase>

Campbell: *points and jabbers a lot*
Snow: this letter goes very far... you speak of "lies" and "weasel words"... weasel spelled wrongly i might add.....


Dyke made Morrissey look like a happy-go-lucky guy that wouldn't bear a grudge. i felt for him though for two reasons....

(i) more or less, broad picture wise (and ignoring his silly rambling about the "independence" of the BBC, rather than the BBC's agenda differing from the government's), well, he was right, wasn't he?

(ii) if i spent £55,000 of my money on something i'd want some sort of return at the end of it.


i didn't feel for him for another two reasons....

(i) he was a bit of a whiny girl, wasn't he?

(ii) i was jealous cos i wished i had fifty-five grand to chuck at a mainstream politcal party.

"Betrayed By New Labour"
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2004, 10:02:58 AM »
The Guardian's review section excelled itself today. This truly made my blood boil.


http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcast/comment/0,7493,1308438,00.html
Quote
Greg, you come across as a thoroughly brilliant bloke. But I think most of us have sort of had it with Hutton now. We know that Saddam didn't have any WMDs that threatened us, that we went to war on a false premise, that it was extraordinary that Hutton didn't criticise the government, or Campbell, and that you should almost certainly still be in that office. We know all that, Greg. It's a disgrace, but you're not there, and you've got to accept that now, let it go. Who knows, there could be a job going at Wernham Hogg.


Yeah, because government corruption is SOOO BORING isn't it, it's sooooo last week. We're all trying to decide whether we like the Green Wing or not at the moment.

Gah! I fucking hate the Guardian, it is a piece of shit.



Does anybody have any idea who the mystery cabinet minister was who swore revenge on the BBC?

Jon Snow is my favouritest broadcaster ever, much better than Paxman.

non capisco

  • My valve is screaming for appeasement.
"Betrayed By New Labour"
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2004, 11:03:54 AM »
Quote from: "Purple Tentacle"

Jon Snow is my favouritest broadcaster ever, much better than Paxman.


It was great to see that footage of him against Campbell again, wasn't it?
'weasel spelt wrong I might add'
'erm...well, it was dictated! Yes, that will do.'

That Guardian review's a piece of shit. The Hutton and Butler reports were hardly years ago, the governmental corruption that's evident to anyone with functioning senses and a working frontal lobe should be brought up at any and every opportunity. The biggest peaceful protest in London there's ever been that was subsequently IGNORED COMPLETELY by our elected representatives...so yesterday, man. Not like making a wacky Wernham Hogg reference. Twats.

"Betrayed By New Labour"
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2004, 11:40:37 AM »
The guardian seems no longer to want to uncover the truth, but just report the news. It doesn't seem to matter to them if a politician etc. did wrong if it happened in the past as it is no longer relevant. A perculiar way of thinking and one that gives justification to Tony Blairs policy of if you deny and lie for long enough any protestations becming meaningless as 'we have to move on' 'that is all in the past now'.

mikeyg27

  • That's one way of doing it.
    • M Gonta
"Betrayed By New Labour"
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2004, 12:11:25 PM »
Quote from: "Purple Tentacle"
Yeah, because government corruption is SOOO BORING isn't it, it's sooooo last week. We're all trying to decide whether we like the Green Wing or not at the moment.


What are you talking about? I thought we were all in agreement that we loved Green Wing?

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

  • Rose-tinted glasses? No, they're x-ray specs
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"Betrayed By New Labour"
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2004, 12:12:26 PM »
Which Guardian fucker wrote that? That's horrific. 'Yeah, the world's completely corrupt but lighten up and have a beer mate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'

What an utter cunt.

And what does the David Brent reference mean anyway?

"Betrayed By New Labour"
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2004, 12:31:37 PM »
I think it's a reference to the fact that Brent keeps coming back to Wernham Hogg after he's been fired.

fanny splendid

  • Chaos Reigns
"Betrayed By New Labour"
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2004, 12:40:58 PM »
Quote from: "mikeyg27"
Quote from: "Purple Tentacle"
Yeah, because government corruption is SOOO BORING isn't it, it's sooooo last week. We're all trying to decide whether we like the Green Wing or not at the moment.


What are you talking about? I thought we were all in agreement that we loved Green Wing?


What, that fucking awful hospital program? It's like watching a medical circus. Channel 4 were obviously just trying to drag some more usage out of the sets they built for that sex-based medical comedy (Yeah, it's Teachers, but in a hospital!) that was out last year.

imitationleather

  • "The French... are famous... for their kissing"
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"Betrayed By New Labour"
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2004, 12:54:51 PM »
Well I liked it...

Sorry, I know it's the lowest form of wit.

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

  • Rose-tinted glasses? No, they're x-ray specs
    • http://www.myspace.com/irkthepurists
"Betrayed By New Labour"
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2004, 12:59:39 PM »
Why do people think so many media people have that 'Lighten up and get over it' attitude? Is it just embarrassment/guilt/inadequacy about the fact that other people have good reason to be angry? Or is it just laziness? Or a squeamishness about dissent itself? I mean, why on earth would you take that stance? You'd think, if anything, it'd be in their interests to stir people up.

"Betrayed By New Labour"
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2004, 01:08:06 PM »
Which Guardian fucker wrote that?  Sam Wollaston.

You're right. He is a fucker.  A thick fucker.  

As for the David Brent reference, I asked myself the same question.  But then I realised there's a correlation there.  The Office made the point that for most people in this country, their approach to work and their work environment was a load of absolute shite.  The Greg Dyke/Hutton/Blair debacle made the point that our government's approach to their work and their work environment was also a load of absolute shite.  And what do they have in common?  Nobody does a fucking thing about either of them!  

As long as David Brent does a twatty dance and Lord Hutton fails to fulfill his purpose, we can all enjoy the placebo-catharsis that is both of things and get back to the business of pretending the whole system isn't rotten to the core.     [/quote]

chand

  • "like Louise Mensch but with a sexy beard"
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"Betrayed By New Labour"
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2004, 01:19:12 PM »
Dragging it briefly back to topic and away from the Guardian, I'm with mayer to an extent although I did feel it was somewhat inappropriate for an 'independent' BBC DG to be giving money to Labour. Fuck knows I'd be moaning if he'd been lining the Tories' pockets. Clearly it didn't buy him an awful lot of influence though.

It's fair to say that in the general scheme of things, Gilligan was pretty much right. He may have unfortunately used some rather imprecise language, but we all know the 45 minutes thing was bollocks. And I believe that Blair knew it too. He wasn't lying, so much as being completely disingenuous and allowing the impression that we were 45 minutes from doom to circulate because it was politically expedient for him to do so. I mean, I really hope he didn't believe the 45 minute thing. If he knew it was 'battlefield weapons' then he was a twat for giving the impression they weren't, if he didn't know then that's a massive problem. Was he just parrotting information he hadn't really understood? Is that what we want?

Part of the problem with Hutton's report was that it was based on a misunderstanding of the pivotal term 'sexed up'.

Quote
"It could mean that the dossier was embellished with items of intelligence known or believed to be false, " Lord Hutton said.

"Or, it could mean that while intelligence contained in the dossier was believed to be true and reliable - it was drafted in such a way as to make the case against Saddam Hussein as strong as possible" he said.

"If the term is used in the latter sense...it could be said the government "sexed up" the dossier," Lord Hutton added.


He then went on to state that Gilligan obviously meant the former, which I don't think is what Gilligan meant.

"Betrayed By New Labour"
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2004, 01:54:40 PM »
Just as an aside, for those who are sick of the Grauniad, I've recently been turned on to the Independent by my partner, who has been buying it since it went "easy on the train" size.

They certainly don't seem eager to let Bliar et al off the hook and I've really enjoyed the paper in general. Lots of incisive and inflammatory reporting being displayed on the occasions I've read it. I'd recommend it.

Yes, I also thought Dyke had been fucked (bwaaaa haaaa haaa!) over by Bliar and Campbell. Although he is a bit of a twit, I think he should probably still be in post.

Grrrrrr to the WMD/45 mins/War situation. Just... grrrrrrr.

fanny splendid

  • Chaos Reigns
"Betrayed By New Labour"
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2004, 02:02:30 PM »
Quote from: "imitationleather"
Well I liked it...

Sorry, I know it's the lowest form of wit.


No, no, no. It's the wit for use when dealing with the lowest form.

"Betrayed By New Labour"
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2004, 03:31:57 PM »
Quote from: "slim"
Just as an aside, for those who are sick of the Grauniad, I've recently been turned on to the Independent by my partner, who has been buying it since it went "easy on the train" size.

They certainly don't seem eager to let Bliar et al off the hook and I've really enjoyed the paper in general. Lots of incisive and inflammatory reporting being displayed on the occasions I've read it. I'd recommend it.

Yes, I also thought Dyke had been fucked (bwaaaa haaaa haaa!) over by Bliar and Campbell. Although he is a bit of a twit, I think he should probably still be in post.

Grrrrrr to the WMD/45 mins/War situation. Just... grrrrrrr.


I concur - if I buy a newspaper it's normally been the Independant recently.  The Granuid has gone very crap recently.

"Betrayed By New Labour"
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2004, 04:47:03 PM »
Only problem with the Independent is it sometimes seems to be lacking in pages. I know they like to support issues like the enviroment, but when the paper is, but two pages in length I do start to wonder.

"Betrayed By New Labour"
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2004, 05:18:05 PM »
Quote from: "non capisco"
Quote from: "Purple Tentacle"

Jon Snow is my favouritest broadcaster ever, much better than Paxman.


It was great to see that footage of him against Campbell again, wasn't it?
'weasel spelt wrong I might add'
'erm...well, it was dictated! Yes, that will do.'


It's a shame they chose such a silly clip from the Snow/Campbell showdown. Snow is a far better interviewer than that, even with seconds to plan his questions. Read the full transcript, it's astounding:

http://www.channel4.com/news/2003/06/week_4/27_campbell.html

"Betrayed By New Labour"
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2004, 05:38:58 PM »
I remember seeing that live, and it was then that I realised that Alistair Campbell is the most aggressive person I have ever seen. He was totally raving in that interview. John Snow I thought had little to throw at Campbell due to the ferverant state he was in.

wheatgod

  • You CANNOT STOP WHAT CAN'T BE STOPPED
"Betrayed By New Labour"
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2004, 06:57:23 PM »
yes, i saw it live too. i was impressed by campbell, i have to say, and john snow too. it was an intense time, and this interview epitomises a lot of it for me. glory days, they were, and blair must go

mikeyg27

  • That's one way of doing it.
    • M Gonta
"Betrayed By New Labour"
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2004, 07:16:34 PM »
Quote from: "fanny splendid"
Quote from: "mikeyg27"
What are you talking about? I thought we were all in agreement that we loved Green Wing?


What, that fucking awful hospital program? It's like watching a medical circus. Channel 4 were obviously just trying to drag some more usage out of the sets they built for that sex-based medical comedy (Yeah, it's Teachers, but in a hospital!) that was out last year.


Sorry, I was being sarcastic, but it doesn't quite show. My point was that I've seen nothing but positive reviews for Green Wing, but I have not spoken to a single person who liked it. I'll put "darling" at the end of a post like that next time.

"Betrayed By New Labour"
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2004, 07:20:03 PM »
I think he's probably a likeable bloke, but his camera manner was a bit annoying, and definitely very self-pitying. The Wernham Hogg reference was simply to him coming across as a bit of a berk, I think. Which he did. But a loveable one, I think.

As for Jon Snow, he genuinely is a fantastic broadcaster and one of my personal heroes. I was amazed at how much he played down his performance against Campbell on Channel 4 news in the documentary, saying he'd wished he'd had more time to prepare, I mean lines like this;

Quote
I think the public is more likely to be concerned at the extraordinarily intemperate language which is coming out on behalf of the Prime Minister in your name. 'The story was a lie, it is a lie.' 'Weasel words,' weasel not incidentally spelt correctly in consistent terms of the original fake dossier...

....The answer to that question is - we do not know. And the reason we do not know is that there is obfuscation and diversion, part of which we are seeing played out right here before us.

The fact is that MPs want to question the chiefs of the intelligence services, and should be allowed to do so.

Instead you are preferring, you the government, are preferring a 'hole in the corner' operation with an intelligence committee which is not held in public, and which is answerable to the Prime Minister. "


The fact Snow played down his prowess in Dyke's documentary shows how much class he has. He destroyed Campbell in that interview, absolutely demolished him. I remember watching it and feeling completely adrenalised, practically laughing with glee at that pathetic bully getting his come-uppance from a real master of language. Flailing his little pen around like an angry child while Snow dismissed every tawdry little lie that came out of his thin, pointy, purple face.

It was like I used to get as a kid after watching Rocky beat Clubber Lang in Rocky III.

fanny splendid

  • Chaos Reigns
"Betrayed By New Labour"
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2004, 07:27:04 PM »
Quote from: "mikeyg27"
Sorry, I was being sarcastic, but it doesn't quite show. My point was that I've seen nothing but positive reviews for Green Wing, but I have not spoken to a single person who liked it. I'll put "darling" at the end of a post like that next time.


No, you've nothing to be sorry about.

I occasionally go off the boil on things. After suffering ten minutes of that program, a small ball of bile had lodged itself under one lung, and the sudden opportunity for me to expel it, just happened to be after seeing it mentioned here.

It's now been replaced by a similar ball of bile, only this one has Cash In The Attic written on it...