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Graham LOLnehan

Started by Hank_Kingsley, April 20, 2015, 01:13:37 PM

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DrGreggles

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on September 23, 2018, 02:29:38 PM
I don't know why Linehan is heralded quite as much as he is tbh. Father Ted was good and is immensely rewatchable but Black Books and the IT crowd seem to me like shitter versions of it with the settings switched around.

Linehan only co-wrote series 1 of BB, which was brilliant (and the best series).

Brundle-Fly

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on September 23, 2018, 02:29:38 PM
I don't know why Linehan is heralded quite as much as he is tbh. Father Ted was good and is immensely rewatchable but Black Books and the IT crowd seem to me like shitter versions of it with the settings switched around. It all becomes a bit colour by numbers after a while.

He's not going to be the last once-liberal comedian who turns into a fragile middle-aged reactionary curmudgeon either, it's a thing.

Loved Father Ted, Big Train and thought Black Books was also great. Couldn't give a hoot about what Glinner's opinions are. Thank god Twitter wasn't around in the seventies because we'd probably think everybody in comedy was a cunt. (except Les Dawson, he'd be the king of tweets).

Clownbaby

 I've said often how I feel about IT Crowd, I have not interest in ever watching Black Books again despite only having seen it once, and I know that Big Train is popular on here but I'm not a massive fan of that either. For me, it's an even split of funny and absolute duff sketches and often the fairly funny sketches feel like they've been stretched and repeated because he was just so in love with the idea. "A flamboyand looking supervillain doing normal domeic stuff, endless mileage there" nah not really

Like how in IT Crowd there would often be an awkwardly contrived set up for something and he's droning on in the commentary "this didn't work at all when we filmed it, it worked a lot better in my head and on paper." Why didn't you just cut the scene then lad? I remember in the commentary he was talking about how he'd wanted Denholm to die in a lawnmower based accident and he was really focused on the lawnmower thing for ages, but where did that come from? There wasn't really anything lawnmowery about the character, a lawnmower death just seemed a bit random

I think he gets absolutely hell-bent on a series of disjointed things that he finds funny or interesting in his head, and decides to throw them all in together. I was guilty of this a well in a lot of my uni projects so I can kind of relate but somehow all of his came together and worked in Ted. Not sure how happneed,  but you wouldn't guess it had worked based on what he says about very single scene in the commentary.

sevendaughters

Quote from: Clownbaby on September 24, 2018, 11:04:55 AM
Why didn't you just cut the scene then lad? I remember in the commentary he was talking about how he'd wanted Denholm to die in a lawnmower based accident and he was really focused on the lawnmower thing for ages, but where did that come from? There wasn't really anything lawnmowery about the character, a lawnmower death just seemed a bit random

probably a homage to the great Notts thrash act Lawnmower Deth

Either that or he's a fan of 80s horror They Don't Cut the Grass Anymore.

More boringly he just wants a Spinal Tap reference - Bizarre gardening accident.

rm2kmaster

Quote from: Clownbaby on September 24, 2018, 11:04:55 AM
I've said often how I feel about IT Crowd, I have not interest in ever watching Black Books again despite only having seen it once, and I know that Big Train is popular on here but I'm not a massive fan of that either. For me, it's an even split of funny and absolute duff sketches and often the fairly funny sketches feel like they've been stretched and repeated because he was just so in love with the idea. "A flamboyand looking supervillain doing normal domeic stuff, endless mileage there" nah not really

Like how in IT Crowd there would often be an awkwardly contrived set up for something and he's droning on in the commentary "this didn't work at all when we filmed it, it worked a lot better in my head and on paper." Why didn't you just cut the scene then lad? I remember in the commentary he was talking about how he'd wanted Denholm to die in a lawnmower based accident and he was really focused on the lawnmower thing for ages, but where did that come from? There wasn't really anything lawnmowery about the character, a lawnmower death just seemed a bit random

I think he gets absolutely hell-bent on a series of disjointed things that he finds funny or interesting in his head, and decides to throw them all in together. I was guilty of this a well in a lot of my uni projects so I can kind of relate but somehow all of his came together and worked in Ted. Not sure how happneed,  but you wouldn't guess it had worked based on what he says about very single scene in the commentary.

Plus he's a cunt.

QDRPHNC

Quote from: BritishHobo on September 23, 2018, 05:25:00 AM
I've said this before, but I find it fascinating that the kind of sensitivity to criticism that this thread is about comes most clearly from people like Linehan and Gervais, who are generally recognised as comedy giants, and who have loads of awards for sitcoms which are beloved and seen as classics. For some reason they seem more upset by criticism than any toiler with an unappreciated/disliked catalogue of work.

Probably because deep down they know they're not particularly bright or talented, and that the one series each that they are considered legendary for was a case of being in the right place at the right time with the right people.

Probably. In my experience, most genuinely talented people aren't sensitive or precious about their work at all, because they're very, very sure that they know what they're doing.

mr. logic

Quote from: QDRPHNC on September 24, 2018, 02:24:28 PM
Probably because deep down they know they're not particularly bright or talented, and that the one series each that they are considered legendary for was a case of being in the right place at the right time with the right people.

Probably. In my experience, most genuinely talented people aren't sensitive or precious about their work at all, because they're very, very sure that they know what they're doing.

Do you reckon? I can't think of many artists that aren't a little precious. The only one that seems genuinely unperturbed about the reception to his work is Woody Allen.

gilbertharding

Whenever this idea comes up, I always think back to my 'creative education' - at architecture school - in which crits were an absolutely vital process. If your ideas, as expressed, can't stand up to proper rigorous criticism... if you can't mount a proper and equally rigorous defence, then they can't really have been worth having.

Comedy writing is probably a bit different to architecture...

zomgmouse

Still one of my favourite interactions surrounding GL


bgmnts

I bet he HATED that as well.

Funcrusher

The cotton ceiling is kinda dodgy though.

Ferris

Imagine being so self-righteous you add "Get Rid of the Nazis" as your middle name on twitter.

God I'm glad I don't use twitter.

BritishHobo

Mara Wilson's fucking brilliant, and her book is cracking. END OF.

bgmnts

Quote from: BritishHobo on September 24, 2018, 09:53:47 PM
Mara Wilson's fucking brilliant, and her book is cracking. END OF.

Mara "Get Rid of the Nazis" Wilson*

Ferris

Ferris "I Don't Care Who I Offend With This Hot Take, I Reckon Hitler Was bad" WheelBueller

Funcrusher

It's the modern day Battle of Cable Street, facing off against the nazi menace of Graham Linehan.

zomgmouse

Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on September 24, 2018, 09:39:02 PM
Imagine being so self-righteous you add "Get Rid of the Nazis" as your middle name on twitter.

God I'm glad I don't use twitter.

Twitter has a very big problem with Nazi accounts and its hate speech algorithms are somehow allowing them to stay active; there's increasing numbers of Nazis online but also in general; people are not getting how dangerous fascism/Nazism is to the extent of encouraging debate rather than shutting Nazis down... so "Get Rid of the Nazis" now somehow becomes a necessary thing to say. I guess if you're not in the midst of it then it might seem alien that such an obvious statement is taken so seriously, but it sadly is a stand that people are having to take.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: bgmnts on September 24, 2018, 10:01:05 PM
Mara "Get Rid of the Nazis" Wilson*

Mara 'sort of disapproves of stuff' Wilson. would've been more apt.

Barry Admin

Has she tried a twibbon? Maybe that might work?

Terryfuckwit

Quote from: zomgmouse on September 24, 2018, 11:59:30 PM
Twitter has a very big problem with Nazi accounts and its hate speech algorithms are somehow allowing them to stay active; there's increasing numbers of Nazis online but also in general; people are not getting how dangerous fascism/Nazism is to the extent of encouraging debate rather than shutting Nazis down... so "Get Rid of the Nazis" now somehow becomes a necessary thing to say. I guess if you're not in the midst of it then it might seem alien that such an obvious statement is taken so seriously, but it sadly is a stand that people are having to take.

Crackpot


gilbertharding

That cotton ceiling thing's a bit tricky, to be fair. I'm sure there's a discussion to be had, and some bad actors on both sides to be ignored.

I think I'm with Paris Lees: "there's a huge difference between denying someone a job versus not desiring someone sexually. Sexual attraction may be the one area that it's OK to 'discriminate' in—after all, it's up to you who you want to fuck—but you don't need to be a dick [clever wording - like it] about your preference."

But that was in 2015, apparently - so it's probably all changed now. And if I'm wrong, please accept my sincere apologies.



Oh - and earlier on in the thread with Mara 'why can't we all just get along' Wilson, GLinner (a professional writer) used 'effected' when he meant 'affected' - so obviously I'll never watch Father Ted again.

Yeah, the cotton ceiling thing is pretty hard to defend. If someone's isn't attracted to someone who has a penis you can't shame them into it. You can recognise someone identifies as female while realising that they still have a male body. That's not denying them their right to be treated as a woman, it's recognising someone else's right to not be pressured to sleep with someone whose body doesn't fit their own sexuality. If there are some gay women who are happy to sleep with trans women that's great, but it's not transphobic if some gay women don't want to have sex with a penis. I don't see  the arguments for that happening as that far removed from the argument that gay people have made a decision to be gay. They're both treating sexuality as a whim that can be changed instead of the way you're born.

Twed

I'm so glad you've tackled that whole "people regularly being forced to have sex with transwomen against their will" hot potato. Definitely a relevant, burning issue.

gilbertharding

We're talking about Graham Linehan here.

Quote from: Twed on September 27, 2018, 03:55:59 PM
I'm so glad you've tackled that whole "people regularly being forced to have sex with transwomen against their will" hot potato. Definitely a relevant, burning issue.

There is a minority of trans people and supporters who are using it as a sign of transphobia. Now being bisexual myself it's not something that particularly affects me. But I was a teen and out in the 90s and it was generally a more tolerant time. But I know gay women a few years older who get triggered every time something like that gets said on social media. Not because they're transphobic, they're generally supportive, but because it takes them back to every guy and every older person who told them as a teen they should prefer dick. And it brings back every bit of bullying and abuse they got put through. Now obviously this is a minority saying it and my personal experience shouldn't be extended to speak for all gay people. But it bothers them that people on their side are essentially saying their sexuality should be irrelevant and if it isn't then they're just a bigot. And people like Linehan are feeding on that to voice their own transphobia. What you're doing is what people tend to do on social media. Invent straw men and exaggerate the argument in order to demonstrate how woke you are. Look back at what was said. Nobody was saying people are being forced to have sex against their will. What was said is people are being shamed for not thinking the physical body is irrelevant. Which they are. And the people doing that are complete fucking arseholes. It's only a very small minority but social media tends to amplify that minority and when opinions like that get amplified it leads to people digging their heels in further on both sides. So no, the idea that people are being forced to sleep with transwomen against their will isn't a burning issue. But the idea that it's an act of transphobia to suggest a gay women might not want to fuck someone with a penis kinda is. And that's what was being discussed. And none of that diminishes my belief that trans women are women.

gilbertharding

And, again, it's only being discussed here because Graham 'Finger on the Pulse' Linehan mentioned The Cotton Ceiling in that thread and I, assuming I didn't know what it was because it was a new idea, looked it up - and discovered it was pretty much a 3 year old straw man.

Apologies for that. As you were.

But I think it's relevant in the sense that Linehan's attitude is to say all trans people and allies are trying to erase women and that's one of the things he points to. Other people do the same and it just fuels transphobia. So I think it's really important to argue against both the transphobia and the minority who do think it's bigotry not to be attracted to someone. But Linehan I think does view himself as a feminist and sees himself as being a champion of women when he says these things, but his view of feminism is very patriarchal and any women who doesn't follow his rules is a bad feminist. Remember a couple of years back with the Dolly Parton thing? It comes from the same place as that I think. He wants to champion women but he has a very narrow view of what a woman is. While claiming to argue for women he's actually arguing a very oppressive view, but he can't see that.

Brundle-Fly

Quote from: worldsgreatestsinner on September 27, 2018, 05:04:05 PM
Remember a couple of years back with the Dolly Parton thing?

That's a perfect phrase you might overhear at a bus stop.