Author Topic: "Holy Grails" that actually exist  (Read 5666 times)

Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #60 on: June 12, 2015, 03:18:22 AM »
Cardiacs - LSD. Complete apart from Tim Smith's vocals. Apparently it'll be released at some point in the future, the thought of which has haunted me on a daily basis since I discovered them a few years ago. Hope its not shit.

23 Daves

  • Break a leg!
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Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #61 on: June 12, 2015, 08:49:35 AM »
Yup, Alex played it on Fnoob a couple of years back.

Well, that's some of my weekend listening sorted. Having gone through about 10 minutes of it, though, it's hard to hear many radical differences, and in fact some of the additions seem almost superfluous. But it's definitely going to be one to ponder over.

Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #62 on: June 12, 2015, 09:07:56 AM »
Thanks a lot purlieu.

BlodwynPig

  • R.I.P. The Waxwork René
Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #63 on: June 12, 2015, 10:02:51 AM »
Potentially great pop album - scrapped because it had an "outdated sound" (i.e. xenomania). Rinse and replace with shit sub-Katy Perry holler pop (soon to be released probably).

NoSleep

  • feat. Keith Jarrett and his singing parrot
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Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #64 on: June 12, 2015, 10:26:51 AM »
Josef K's album The Only Fun In Town was a bit of a disappointment for me, as a track by them (Endless Soul) had been included on the Rough Trade/NME cassette "C81", allegedly from their "forthcoming album" (entitled Sorry For Laughing), which was shelved and The Only Fun In Town recorded and released instead. Sadly there was nothing as good as that one track from C81 on the album. They had eschewed its dry, intimate sound for a big reverb-drenched imitation of a few other fashionable productions of the era, which didn't favour their material in the same way (and the vocals are often buried). Apparently even the band have subsequently expressed regret over the decision.

Anyway, they eventually released the lot on CD many years later as bonus tracks for a reissue of The Only Fun In Town.

Dirty Boy

  • large as life and twice as natural
Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #65 on: June 12, 2015, 01:36:18 PM »
Cardiacs - LSD. Complete apart from Tim Smith's vocals. Apparently it'll be released at some point in the future, the thought of which has haunted me on a daily basis since I discovered them a few years ago. Hope its not shit.
A bit of info from Kavus (posted on Progressiveears).
Quote
LSD would have been as different from any other Cardiacs album as STG is from, say, On Land.
That is, it still sounds totally Tim but with a pretty different vibe.

I had a hand in the arrangements so it certainly has a flavour of a lot of my stuff. Much more than the Ditzy Scene single which we did pretty quickly.

We were all VERY excited about it when we were making it.

We're still hoping to finish it if Tim's health improves enough.

Quote
And, yes, all the tunes were/are brilliant. There's one epic with a ridiculously complicated tune in the middle that keeps getting more and more delirious and intense. Maybe the most full-on section Cardiacs have ever done.
I had to record the guitar in stages just to get it right...although the idea would have been to learn it all and play it live.
That's all I'm saying!

Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #66 on: June 12, 2015, 01:38:25 PM »
Blimey! Surely, surely, surely it's going to be made available in some form sooner or later...!

Dirty Boy

  • large as life and twice as natural
Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #67 on: June 12, 2015, 02:05:12 PM »
With the way things are with Tim i can't see it happening to be brutally honest. I don't think he's been able to speak since his 'accident'. It's all very very sad, BUT, news abounds of a 'lost' Sea Nymphs album soon to see the light of day plus "some other stuff". Hope it's not Jims underpants.

Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #68 on: June 12, 2015, 02:11:41 PM »
"some other stuff"

Hopefully, every single Monsoon Bassoon track ever recorded! I've got a scattering of EPs and isolated, random tracks, in sound qualities ranging from awful to ho-hum. Would be great to see these tracks given the release they deserve! I believe it's in the pipeline...

Phil_A

  • HE WAS AN ROBOT
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Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #69 on: June 12, 2015, 04:58:01 PM »
With the way things are with Tim i can't see it happening to be brutally honest. I don't think he's been able to speak since his 'accident'. It's all very very sad, BUT, news abounds of a 'lost' Sea Nymphs album soon to see the light of day plus "some other stuff". Hope it's not Jims underpants.

Yeah, various people have mentioned over the years there being enough material for at least two more Sea Nymphs albums. I got the impression the second one was originally supposed to be out in the late 90s, to coincide with the Peel Session where three new songs were debuted.

L.S.D. does sadly feel like a ship that's sailed at the moment. I totally get them not wanting to put out anything "new" under the Cardiacs name without Tim's involvement, and having someone else record the vocals has never been in the running. Also I think Kavus still finds the whole thing a bit too painful to want to deal, as he made his feelings on the matter clear in on the last Knifeworld album.

I'm sure we will get the Garage Concerts Rehearsals film at some point, given that it was mostly finished(IIRC, it was only the between songs bits that still had to be edited).

My other Cardiacs Holy Grails are the version of "Dead Mouse" recorded for their first single but left off due to lack of room, and the pre-Obvious Identity demo tape that Cardiac Arrest did. The former definitely still exists as there's a picture of the master tape up on the Cardiacs Museum website, but whichever fucker owns it has never seen fit to share it with the world. And the latter I believe contains the only recording of an almost mythical piece known as "I Bit The Vicar", featuring Peter Tagg's brother Derek on guest shrieking. That alone makes it something I would flog a kidney to obtain.

SteveDave

  • My LPs are still for sale in all good record shops
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Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #70 on: July 19, 2015, 01:45:58 PM »
I've only just become aware of this

http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2015/07/13/the-velvet-underground-the-freeman-tape-sampler-maxs-kansas-city-nyc-august-1970/

Another night recorded at Max's Kansas City in 1970 with some really odd interpretations of What Goes On & Some Kinda Love.

Pepotamo1985

  • British people in hot weather
Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #71 on: July 19, 2015, 09:38:15 PM »
Beyond that, for years the consensus has been that the FZ archives contain a wealth of unreleased concerts, albums and other material, but keeper of the vault (and ex Dweezil alumni) Joe Travers maintains that there really isn’t anywhere near as much as people think, and most of the decent sounding stuff has already been released.

I'm unsure what's in the vaults that's worth releasing at this stage, given that many of the posthumous Zappa albums have been pretty questionable. I'd like to believe there absolutely must be tons of studio stuff that hasn't seen the light of day yet (the Hot Rats sessions produced hours of stuff that was either used later on in its original form or re-recorded), but one has to wonder why it hasn't been released yet if it exists and/or is useable. The rabid obsession and seething hatred of Gail amongst hardcore Zappa fans probably accounts for the bulk of the rumours/received wisdom that there are literally years' worth of grade A recorded material on file waiting to see the light of day.

Mr_Simnock

  • BREXIT? what brexit
Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #72 on: July 20, 2015, 01:19:03 AM »
Quote
As far as albums go, there's apparently an unfinished Broadcast album knocking around, recorded before Trish Keenan's death.   

Fuck me, that can't come out soon enough. Have any of the tracks made it out yet in any form?

Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #73 on: July 22, 2015, 03:23:34 PM »
Certain non-released stuff that was filmed for Kate Bushs Tour of Life. There are, or were, 8 or so performances never released with a few from other performances available in not too good quality. I have just been able to reduce that number down by getting a copy of and digitising what has been described as the holy grail of KB collecting. This was the Hammersmith live performance of the Man With A Child in His Eyes. There are 4 other never before seen performances in it which has gone down very well with the fan community. All this has come out of the blue in the last 2 weeks. It's what I was going on about in the other thread about having trouble with a tape.

Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #74 on: July 09, 2017, 06:47:32 AM »
Has anyone got / heard the unreleased One Dove second album please?

It's mentioned here:

http://forum.popjustice.com/threads/one-dove-dot-allison.17115/

There are a load of odd tracks floating about which are also mentioned in that thread but I've never seen or heard that LP.

Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #75 on: July 09, 2017, 09:01:22 AM »
Well it'd be definitely nice if it did exist in it's entirety, but it seems that from things I've read on the net people often assume that because a short clip exists it must mean that the whole thing exists, but that shows a total lack of understanding of how TV works.  A TV station doesn't care about your[nb]Not you personally, people in general.[/nb] favourite band, they're there to make a tv show and once they have a show any other materials are discarded afterwards, or tapes re-used.  All they care about is the finished product, a finished show ready to broadcast.  Unfortunately the idea that a TV station would film an entire performance (just so they could use a short extract in a tv show) and then for them to keep the tape in their archive is merely a pipe dream.

Thinking about what Floyd footage has surfaced, I can think of...

Amsterdam 1972. About 40 mins of b&w footage, 3 whole songs.
St Tropez 1970. About an hour of colour footage from a French TV show. (Am I misremembering or did this one appear on April 1st causing some initial disbelief.)
Atom Heart Mother, b&w footage, Bath 1970
Set The Controls film rushes, 1968
A plethora of European TV show clips from 1968-69, but frustratingly not 1967.
Hyde Park 1970, from an old decaying tape.
Various 8mm 70's concert clips, expertly synched with (in most cases) the original sound from an audience recording.

There's also the shite quality clip of them doing See Emily Play on Top of the Pops and part of the soundcheck for their 1969 Royal Festival Hall gig which I think was The Man and The Journey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8IRBAwOLYA

Frustratingly, the guy filming was supposed to film the gig too but was slung out by the venue's owners because he didn't have permission from them so the 20 odd minutes of soundcheck is all we've got.

Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #76 on: June 05, 2018, 03:24:06 PM »
Here is the unreleased One Dove LP I asked for if anyone in this thread is bothered:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ_D-yvP4Uw

BlodwynPig

  • R.I.P. The Waxwork René
Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #77 on: June 05, 2018, 03:29:59 PM »
Seems all the Holy Grails from the first page are no longer Holy Grails apart from maybe the Genesis Lambs one.

purlieu

  • Woo-hoo, Lord Nimon!
Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #78 on: June 05, 2018, 04:34:40 PM »
Seems all the Holy Grails from the first page are no longer Holy Grails apart from maybe the Genesis Lambs one.
None of the FSOL releases I listed have been released yet. It's ok though because Brian found around 200 DATs of unreleased material in the meantime and they're finishing up the new Amorphous Androgynous album currently so they'll probably still not be out in ten years time.

maett

  • Bukkake Nightmare
Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #79 on: June 05, 2018, 05:12:34 PM »
Here is the unreleased One Dove LP I asked for if anyone in this thread is bothered:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ_D-yvP4Uw

Nice! I most certainly am bothered. Loved what I thought was their only album.

Twed

  • Take a Key for Coming in!
Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #80 on: June 05, 2018, 05:22:43 PM »
Boards of Canada fans are crazy for material from their days as teenagers/younger men, making music with tape recorders and whatever they could find. Pre-Twoism stuff. And then "A Few Old Tunes" found its way online, and glorious it was too.

Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #81 on: June 05, 2018, 07:49:38 PM »
Boards of Canada fans are crazy for material from their days as teenagers/younger men, making music with tape recorders and whatever they could find. Pre-Twoism stuff. And then "A Few Old Tunes" found its way online, and glorious it was too.

Did it? I thought I had them but then read that there were lots of fakes around. Is there a genuine version and how do you know if you have it?

Twed

  • Take a Key for Coming in!
Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #82 on: June 05, 2018, 07:59:25 PM »
Definitely lots of fake stuff. Certainly anything claiming to be Hooper Bay etc. aren't real. But the Old Tunes tapes seem to be pretty much legit:

https://bocpages.org/wiki/Old_Tunes_Vol._1

God, the tune in this wrenches me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJiREhmiUQs

Shit Good Nose

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Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #83 on: June 07, 2018, 10:19:44 PM »
Seems all the Holy Grails from the first page are no longer Holy Grails apart from maybe the Genesis Lambs one.

All of mine with the exception of the complete Zappa Roxy shows are still missing :-(

The popularity of the Roxy set might mean that the later Elsewhere shows get a look in, but most Zappa fans have always been less interested in those.  And the rest of the filmed Roxy shows still haven't been released either.

IF any of that Genesis stuff gets released, it will likely only be after Tony Maylam has died (for the two filmed shows from 76) and if Tony Banks ever passes on the archivist torch onto someone else.  Or he dies.

As for the Yes stuff, the Yes brand is in such a fucking mess at the moment and no one really knows who is in control since Chris Squire died, that I doubt we'll ever see anything from the tours I listed.  At least until they're ALL dead...

Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #84 on: June 08, 2018, 12:05:00 PM »
IF any of that Genesis stuff gets released, it will likely only be after Tony Maylam has died (for the two filmed shows from 76) and if Tony Banks ever passes on the archivist torch onto someone else.  Or he dies.
Even if they’re unlabelled it’s hardly a big task.
The setlists will make it easy enough to work out the tour and Phil would surely say each night “Good evening Philadelphia “ or wherever they may be. A list of tour dates to compare against and job done.
Just a matter of someone listening to a bit of each tape surely.

Shit Good Nose

  • Several bags of balls
Re: "Holy Grails" that actually exist
« Reply #85 on: June 11, 2018, 03:32:01 PM »
Even if they’re unlabelled it’s hardly a big task.
The setlists will make it easy enough to work out the tour and Phil would surely say each night “Good evening Philadelphia “ or wherever they may be. A list of tour dates to compare against and job done.
Just a matter of someone listening to a bit of each tape surely.

It's a big task because there are thousands of unmarked tapes all chucked into tour equipment trunks, chests of drawers and suitcases and in no particular order - when Fisher Lane opened its doors to Classic Rock magazine some years ago, the sample tapes (all next to each other in a row) they demoed contained parts of shows from 72, 78 and 86 .  So, when you consider that one average length show would take up two or three tapes (four on later tours when their shows would typically last about two and a half hours) - remember that back in those days there was no recording to hard drives, they had to use tapes and physically change them when they ran out - matching parts of individual show tapes up to create one whole recording of a specific show becomes incredibly difficult and time consuming.  Tony Banks has said that it would take years to go through it all and get it into some sort of order.  He hasn't ruled it out from happening, he's just said that it's a task he won't be carrying out.

About 15 years ago, Geoff Callingham started going through several hundred tapes they found that were marked, cataloguing them, matching up tapes from the same gig and verifying concert dates, with a view to digitising them, and after about 5 years he'd managed to sort out about 40 individual shows.  But that was 5 years of incredibly hard work with tapes that were marked.  Also the quality varied substantially even across tapes from the same one show, depending on what make of tape was used (some have been more resistant to the abuses of time and being forgotten about in drawers than others).

So it's not as simple as just listening to a minute or two and then job done.

Even with the Zappa archives, where stuff has been labeled and catalogued down to every detail and stored properly and in a sensible chronological fashion, it still takes a long time to go through and sort it all out.