Author Topic: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake  (Read 77685 times)

Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #210 on: February 13, 2019, 09:38:55 PM »
I hate all voiced FF games. The point is to project a little of yourself into it IMO, like reading a book. I don't want every blank filled in, and I always hate the voice acting.
Exactly. I've regretted everytime I've jumped back into the franchise since FF10 in large part of the very reasons you outline. I liked playing FF7 one time and calling Red XIII "Old Shep".

I did see they made a FF6 for PC, but apparently the graphics are a bit gash.

Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #211 on: February 13, 2019, 10:02:41 PM »
The point is to project a little of yourself into it IMO, like reading a book.

That's a really good point and I think nails why the PSX era games (and prior) were so great.  Once things get too realistic, you lose that.

Also your mind's eye of it all can be as wacky as you allow it, but once it's "realistic" it has to conform to, well, a more common vision of realism.

Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #212 on: February 13, 2019, 10:07:50 PM »
Exactly. I've regretted everytime I've jumped back into the franchise since FF10 in large part of the very reasons you outline. I liked playing FF7 one time and calling Red XIII "Old Shep".

I did see they made a FF6 for PC, but apparently the graphics are a bit gash.

I think they used mobile ports as the basis of the PC versions. The Chrono Trigger one is horrendous.

Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #213 on: February 13, 2019, 10:12:06 PM »
I think they used mobile ports as the basis of the PC versions. The Chrono Trigger one is horrendous.
Lucky the PS1 version works on my PS3 (unlike FF8), so I've started having a wee dabble again. Bit worried, as I probably put about 60/70 hours into it back in 2002 or so. Really helped out with my post-graduation unemployment blues.

St_Eddie

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #214 on: February 14, 2019, 03:48:18 AM »
That's a really good point and I think nails why the PSX era games (and prior) were so great.  Once things get too realistic, you lose that.

Also your mind's eye of it all can be as wacky as you allow it, but once it's "realistic" it has to conform to, well, a more common vision of realism.

I've long thought that should the script for Final Fantasy VII ever be acted aloud, then it would crumble into pieces, akin to a game of Jenga.  The inefficiencies of the writing (or at the very least, the translation) would be exposed for all to see, or rather hear.  It should come as no surprise that limitations breed the greatest of creativity, superior to the results of those who create without restrictions.

Just another reason why this remake is gonna blow chunks.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 03:59:22 AM by St_Eddie »

St_Eddie

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #215 on: February 14, 2019, 03:54:59 AM »
I liked playing FF7 one time and calling Red XIII "Old Shep".

When I played Final Fantasy VII with my friend, every time that Red XIII came on screen, we would affectionately say "oh, Red XIII" (as in, 'what are you like?').  The highlight of which was during the scene where the lovable little furball dresses up as a sailor.  Good times, to be sure.  Won't see the likes of them again.

Lucky the PS1 version works on my PS3 (unlike FF8)...

Unlike the PSN version.  Conspiracy!

NoSleep

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #216 on: February 14, 2019, 08:47:14 AM »
After following the link for the character reactions to Aeris' death, I came across this breakdown of the entire plot of FF7, which I now realise I never fully grasped:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDCtX9D6n84

Utter Shit

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #217 on: February 14, 2019, 10:54:29 AM »
I've long thought that should the script for Final Fantasy VII ever be acted aloud, then it would crumble into pieces, akin to a game of Jenga.  The inefficiencies of the writing (or at the very least, the translation) would be exposed for all to see,


Barret constantly going "Sh'it!" means he would have to be - and I do mean have to, it should be legally enforced if necessary - voiced by Isiah Davis Junior, aka Clay Davis from The Wire.


Utter Shit

  • Snotty Bumstead
Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #218 on: February 14, 2019, 10:56:17 AM »
After following the link for the character reactions to Aeris' death, I came across this breakdown of the entire plot of FF7, which I now realise I never fully grasped:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDCtX9D6n84

I really want to watch this, but I'm only an hour or so into playing the game again for the first time in the best part of twenty years, so I best leave it.

Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #219 on: February 14, 2019, 04:35:48 PM »
Another thing the game does brilliant is all the little stories of loss that are still incredibly affecting - Elmyra losing her husband, Zack's parents desperately questioning Aeris on their long-missing son, Red XIII mourning first his father then grandfather... I could believe the effect in a remake would not be as powerful because the graphics fill in far too many gaps in my imagination.

I mean, I'm obviously going to buy it, but I fear it'll be one long session of masochism with me constantly saying "ehh, I preferred it in the original".

Twed

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #220 on: February 14, 2019, 04:39:45 PM »
The very worst thing that could happen is it doing something to make the inferior remake take hold in my consciousness and ruin the enjoyment of the original forever. Die Antwoord ruined Selected Ambient Works for me.

Twed

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #221 on: February 14, 2019, 04:40:13 PM »
Hm, I have to definitely not play the remake. Simple as that.

Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #222 on: February 14, 2019, 04:48:44 PM »
Hm, I have to definitely not play the remake. Simple as that.
It's the sensible stance to take. But I'm a sap who bought Advent Children (not crap, just not very interesting) and Dirge of Cerberus (quite enjoyed it, actually).

Utter Shit

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #223 on: February 14, 2019, 04:52:27 PM »
For anyone who, similar to Twed's post, has never dared go back to the original in case it's nowhere near as good as you remember it - it's still fantastic. A LOT of other PS1 games really aren't though, Tomb Raider is absolutely terrible both graphically and gameplay-wise. On the other hand, most SNES games I've played on my phone are still great - Super Mario Kart in particular is still a joy.

Twed

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #224 on: February 14, 2019, 05:46:57 PM »
Yeah. I'm a big believer that some stuff is just timeless, despite technical limitations. Often because of technical limitations. There are ZX Spectrum, C64, Amiga games that still look beautiful because every pixel is in the right place. We don't dismiss paintings as being ugly because they're not in 3D, and we shouldn't feel that way about games that have beauty in their look and feel either.

Tomb Raider had no craft behind it. You're right. It was impressive at the time, but utterly lacking in taste.

Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #225 on: February 14, 2019, 06:16:16 PM »
Well if they  won't do a HD remaster of the original, it seems the fans are doing a pretty good job themselves!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfHMIg4FPko

Twed

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #226 on: February 14, 2019, 06:21:34 PM »
I really hate it.

NoSleep

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #227 on: February 14, 2019, 06:29:53 PM »
I like it but had to change the aspect to 4:3 to view it properly (my monitor has a button that automatically narrows the screen for wrongly widescreened youtube videos).

Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #228 on: February 14, 2019, 06:38:07 PM »
I'm okay with better resolution for the backgrounds, but those character models are horrible.

Maybe it would work better if they kept the style of the cartoonish models, but upgraded them somehow, instead of just going for awkward realistic models.

NoSleep

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #229 on: February 14, 2019, 06:38:46 PM »
yeh... Cloud's head is too small.

Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #230 on: February 14, 2019, 06:45:11 PM »
Exactly. I've regretted everytime I've jumped back into the franchise since FF10 in large part of the very reasons you outline. I liked playing FF7 one time and calling Red XIII "Old Shep".

I did see they made a FF6 for PC, but apparently the graphics are a bit gash.
As a 13 year old I thought it hilarious to call Red XIII "Twat Cat".

Twed

  • What, prick? That's my child. My Johnson's child
Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #231 on: February 14, 2019, 07:14:26 PM »
I'm okay with better resolution for the backgrounds, but those character models are horrible.
What does better resolution mean in this case though? Some scaling algorithm? Fuck that. If the pixels don't come from the artist, don't show the pixels. I think for this remaster they're filling in stuff with their own graphics, right? Well, it looks worse. They're not as good as the original artists.

https://www.pcgamer.com/modders-are-using-ai-to-upscale-pre-rendered-ps1-backgrounds-with-phenomenal-results/

^ I saw this recently, and although it's impressively done, I just kinda hate it. It's great, clever work, but I don't care to see something where the pixels aren't signed-off by the artist(s), but just spat out by a computer guessing what should be inbetween so that it conforms to 2019 standards of HD. "Here it is, clear as crystal, generated by something without a soul". People who aren't me seem to love it, but I'm far more of an archivist than a revisionist.

People also seem to enjoy playing FF7 in an emulator at 1920x1080 so that the character models sit starkly on top of the low-res backgrounds. Just play the thing in the resolution it was designed for.

Left: characters look like they're floating on top of the scene
Right: characters look like they're in the fucking scene as God intended thank you very much



Humans designed the right-hand image to integrate as a whole. Left is stupid, it's for people who just want to tick a "hi-res is better" box, even if it means nothing fits together and you can see the horrific details of the gouraud shading. This is how Trump would play FF7.

Edit: UGH, left is from the official PS4 release. Horrible.

Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #232 on: February 14, 2019, 07:15:49 PM »
As a 13 year old I thought it hilarious to call Red XIII "Twat Cat".
Yeah, a friend of mine did have Tifa as "Big Tits", Cait as "Cunt Cat" and Cid as "Cancer". I think he called Cloud something like "Spermhair" as he reckoned that was how he got his crop so spikey.

Twed

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #233 on: February 14, 2019, 07:26:41 PM »
FUCK.



"Don't worry, we've used hideous bilinear scaling for you on the backgrounds so that it looks wrong by default, no matter how your TV would have upscaled it"

Twed

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Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #234 on: February 14, 2019, 07:36:24 PM »
While I'm on my soapbox about this, there is only one right way to port 2D games to modern platforms using the original art.



It's the image on the left. Not the middle (which disgustingly is what Square found acceptable). There is one panel in this triptych that isn't hideous, and it's the one on the left. Bonus: it's also the only one that doesn't trash the original creative team's material.

And the blog author's attempted improvement is shit too:



Don't fill in the gaps with guesses just to tick the "this is hi-res now" box! It's rubbish. "Native pixels" is the right option. Only that.

Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #235 on: February 14, 2019, 07:37:07 PM »
What does better resolution mean in this case though? Some scaling algorithm? Fuck that. If the pixels don't come from the artist, don't show the pixels. I think for this remaster they're filling in stuff with their own graphics, right? Well, it looks worse. They're not as good as the original artists.



Are they? I know a lot of the renders had to be compressed onto PSone's setup and this was about restoring what is there, but I clearly understand nothing about this at all, so nevermind.

Twed

  • What, prick? That's my child. My Johnson's child
Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #236 on: February 14, 2019, 07:39:20 PM »
Thursday: I'm talking specifically about the FF9 link below that text. The FF7 remake is them remaking the art, I think. A nice project, but they are simply worse artists with poorer taste.

Twed

  • What, prick? That's my child. My Johnson's child
Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #237 on: February 14, 2019, 07:43:56 PM »
"Look, I remastered Undertale"



"You're fired."

Twed

  • What, prick? That's my child. My Johnson's child
Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #238 on: February 14, 2019, 07:46:00 PM »
Now, sharp-bilinear is perfect. Look:



That is tasteful. No pixels are guessed. It's got a little bit of interpolation, but the chefs here knew exactly how much salt to add to the dish.

Re: Final Fantasy 7 - Remake
« Reply #239 on: February 14, 2019, 07:46:09 PM »
Yeah, a friend of mine did have Tifa as "Big Tits", Cait as "Cunt Cat" and Cid as "Cancer". I think he called Cloud something like "Spermhair" as he reckoned that was how he got his crop so spikey.

FFVII started my tradition of, wherever I am given the option, calling my main character COCKLORD.