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Final Fantasy 7 - Remake

Started by Capt.Midnight, June 16, 2015, 11:23:34 PM

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Cerys


Bazooka

Quote from: Dewt on April 29, 2020, 01:40:12 PM
Translates to "Animal Collective aren't very good" if anybody was wondering.

Please ban this lad Barry.

madhair60

Just got a notification from Hermes that my parcel is en route, assuming this is the PS4 Pro.

Abnormal Palm

Let's just say no naked flames

Cloud

Almost there. I think. Chapter 17 is a slog so far, and the bracelet that says something like "forgoes materia in favour of defence" has been a lifesaver.

I'm at that point in FF games where you just want to get to the bloody end and think you're almost there and it goes on and on...

Jim Bob

#995
Quote from: Cloud on April 30, 2020, 12:40:34 AM
I'm at that point in FF games where you just want to get to the bloody end and think you're almost there and it goes on and on...

And it's still the opening section of the overall remake.  It's worth remembering that once the full remake is finished, people will be playing through this game and all of its parts in one continuous run.  Comments such as yours don't bode particularly well for that.  It may not be an immediate issue, when people are playing each installment of the remake as it comes out every few years, but great games are not games which only work in the moment.  They are games which endure and can be revisited time and time again.  There's a reason why the original Final Fantasy VII is such an enduring classic; one which can still be played and enjoyed to this day.

I think that the ultimate result of Square Enix stretching this remake out and filling it with padding, in the name of milking it for all its worth, isn't going to reflect too kindly on the final completed package.  People are still in the honeymoon period and I suspect that critical dissent will increasingly become apparent as time goes by and people are able to stand back and reflect upon the remake, once the dust has settled and the initial excitement has subsided.

Of course, that's not to say that there aren't great elements within the remake, much less that the game itself, as it stands at this moment, is a complete failure.  It's obviously not.  The praise the game has largely received within this thread and from the gaming community at large is testament to that.  However, it's worth noting that this is just the first part of a much larger game and that the fatigue is already setting in, even though all people have actually played so far is the opening 5 hours of FFVII, but they've spend upwards of 40 hours doing it, at which point they'd be facing off against the final boss and completing the game in the original FFVII.

FFVII very effectively told its story across 40 hours of gameplay.  I really can't see how said story is going to be improved by stretching it out to 200+ hours and adding in a bunch of ill-fitting Kingdom Hearts style guff in an attempt to justify its length.  The comparison to Peter Jackson's bloated Hobbit movies in the review linked on the previous page is very apt, I feel.  After all, a change of scenery in the second part of this remake can only qualm the fatigue felt within the first part so much.


Timothy

GOTY? Cyberpunk is still gonna be released this year!!!!

Quote from: Cloud on April 30, 2020, 12:40:34 AM
I'm at that point in FF games where you just want to get to the bloody end and think you're almost there and it goes on and on...

Chapter 15 for me.

Quotet's worth remembering that once the full remake is finished, people will be playing through this game and all of its parts in one continuous run.

It's indeed not really made to be played through all of it in one run.

Abnormal Palm

Was just removing the edit bug

Timothy

Great article written by someone that never played FF7 and played the remake. Sums up a lot of my feelings about the game.

Don't read it until you finished FF7 Remake.

SPOILER WARNING
https://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-vii-remakes-finale-was-wasted-on-a-newcom-1843163639
SPOILER WARNING

Dewt

Shame he hadn't played the original because then he'd be able to write about the loss of the beauty where heady artistry meets strict limitations.

Timothy

What limitations are you talking about?

Dewt

The original game. It was pushing up against hardware limitations, budget limitations, human resource limitations and time limitations, at the same time as doing something reasonably new. That's how you get most good art, isn't it?

The remake? Standard game development techniques on hardware that facilitates it with a big budget and a moving release date.

Ren and Stimpy on Nickelodeon versus Ren and Stimpy on Spiked.

NoSleep

Quote from: Timothy on April 30, 2020, 07:44:03 AM
Great article written by someone that never played FF7 and played the remake. Sums up a lot of my feelings about the game.

Don't read it until you finished FF7 Remake.

SPOILER WARNING
https://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-vii-remakes-finale-was-wasted-on-a-newcom-1843163639
SPOILER WARNING

Seems like he doesn't understand the idea of a story planting seeds for later on in the plot. The kind of thing a child does when they watch a movie; "Why did he do that?"/"Who is that?", where the answer is, "You'll have to wait and see."

Didn't he understand that it is part one of a series?

Timothy

It might seem it's just a part one but it was advertised as a standalone game.

From Square Enix site:

QuoteThe story of this first, standalone game in the FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE project covers up to the party's escape from Midgar, and goes deeper into the events occurring in Midgar than the original FINAL FANTASY VII.

It's not.

Cloud

Quote from: Jim Bob on April 30, 2020, 01:21:11 AM
And it's still the opening section of the overall remake.  It's worth remembering that once the full remake is finished, people will be playing through this game and all of its parts in one continuous run.  Comments such as yours don't bode particularly well for that.  It may not be an immediate issue, when people are playing each installment of the remake as it comes out every few years, but great games are not games which only work in the moment.  They are games which endure and can be revisited time and time again.  There's a reason why the original Final Fantasy VII is such an enduring classic; one which can still be played and enjoyed to this day.

To be fair the reason I tend to get like this towards the end of FF games is a desire to see what happens in the end (it's obviously something unexpected) and they have a tendency to pad out the last chapter (or dungeon in ye olde days).  But yeah I'm like 60 hours in - there's no way I'd want to play the full series in one go!  It'd have to be really good to not have me fatigued and ready to play another game by part 2.

QuoteI think that the ultimate result of Square Enix stretching this remake out and filling it with padding, in the name of milking it for all its worth, isn't going to reflect too kindly on the final completed package.  People are still in the honeymoon period and I suspect that critical dissent will increasingly become apparent as time goes by and people are able to stand back and reflect upon the remake, once the dust has settled and the initial excitement has subsided.

I fear you may be right. 

I was okay with the idea of 3 parts, with Midgar being the "particularly stretched out" one (though I was hoping that meant exploring other sectors, rather than just padding out what's already there, but I digress). 3 discs of the original translating to 3 games in the modern realistic style makes some sense at least. But now there is talk from Squeenix of doing it in smaller installments "so they can get each part out faster" (read: so they can milk it for £50*n, where n is "as big a number as possible") which is....worrying.  I could see them adding a bunch of sprawling districts and underground facilities to Junon and calling it a full game.

Abnormal Palm

I'm gonna start a narrative in the next few days that the new version is better than the old one. Just a heads up if anyone wants to order a noose online. Literally gonna have people swinging off bannisters and gate posts trying to come to terms etc

Cloud

Quote from: Abnormal Palm on April 30, 2020, 01:41:30 PM
I'm gonna start a narrative in the next few days that the new version is better than the old one. Just a heads up if anyone wants to order a noose online. Literally gonna have people swinging off bannisters and gate posts trying to come to terms etc

Haha :D

I'll see what I think in the end but it'll probably be a balanced take. Yes some parts drag and honestly the original would be hard to beat but overall I still think it's a very good adaptation. Subject to how many parts they decide to squeeze out of it, and how much of the retconning carries on.

Abnormal Palm

No chance mate, the new one is better in every way.

NoSleep

Quote from: Timothy on April 30, 2020, 10:56:16 AM
It might seem it's just a part one but it was advertised as a standalone game.

From Square Enix site:

QuoteThe story of this first, standalone game in the FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE project covers up to the party's escape from Midgar, and goes deeper into the events occurring in Midgar than the original FINAL FANTASY VII.

It's not.

The "first" says it all, whatever they're selling this as. Why not boldly start it far into the original game otherwise? It's an introduction to a series, starts at the beginning of the story and features teasers accordingly.

popcorn

Quote from: Dewt on April 30, 2020, 08:12:12 AM
Shame he hadn't played the original because then he'd be able to write about the loss of the beauty where heady artistry meets strict limitations.

Jesus Christ I think the lockdown is really getting to us

Timothy

Quote from: Abnormal Palm on April 30, 2020, 02:03:54 PM
No chance mate, the new one is better in every way.

Not sure if youre trolling.... because this Remake was a decent game but nothing more then that. Cant imagine that the original isnt better considering its classic status.

Abnormal Palm

Quote from: Abnormal Palm on April 30, 2020, 01:41:30 PM
I'm gonna start a narrative in the next few days that the new version is better than the old one. Just a heads up if anyone wants to order a noose online. Literally gonna have people swinging off bannisters and gate posts trying to come to terms etc

Yeah, as above, really.

That said, the original lacks heart and atmosphere compared to this.

Jim Bob

#1013
Quote from: Cloud on April 30, 2020, 01:36:51 PM
I could see them adding a bunch of sprawling districts and underground facilities to Junon and calling it a full game.

I've had exactly the same thought (in regards to Junon too, no less) and I strongly suspect that this is preciously what Square Enix will do; create the models and textures for Junon (or wherever), pad the shit out of it and charge full whack.  Rinse, repeat.  If I were a betting man, I'd place good money on that being the case.

Quote from: Timothy on April 30, 2020, 07:38:29 AM
It's indeed not really made to be played through all of it in one run.

But how will people approach the remake when all of the parts are released?  Are players expected to play the first part (Midgar) and then impose a self-restriction and wait for a year or two before starting the second part?  Gamers aren't actually renowned for their patience.  Besides, it's a narrative experience.  Players new to the world of FFVII will likely have forgotten what was happening in the story a year or two after the fact.  Square Enix should absolutely be designing this game with a mind that it will eventually be played as one whole continuous experience.  That they're not is why I don't think that time will be kind in regards to the critical response of this game.

Corporate greed has gotten in the way of artistic vision.  This remake never should have been episodic to begin with, but if they absolutely had to go down that route, then it would have been far more sensible for them to release smaller (and cheaper) episodes, without all of the padding (so for example, the first episode would still be the Midgar section but like the original, it would still be around 5 hours of gameplay).  That way, when all of the episodes were complete, the game could still be played as one continuous experience, without any of the fatigue.

Or they could have... you know... not been greedy, forgone the episodic model and just released the entire remake as a single game.

Quote from: Abnormal Palm on April 30, 2020, 03:53:49 PM
That said, the original lacks heart and atmosphere compared to this.

I don't agree with this at all.  The original game is one of the most heartfelt, atmospheric and downright charming games that I've ever played.  Having said that, you're entitled to your opinion of course.

Thursday

He's just starting a narrative lads, it's not what he actually thinks.

Thursday

Although actually it is true, the original can't hold a candle to this.

Jim Bob

Quote from: Thursday on April 30, 2020, 04:36:08 PM
He's just starting a narrative lads, it's not what he actually thinks.

If that is indeed the case, then I have to ask; does this thread really need a bunch of tedious trolling?


madhair60

I've unplugged my PS4 because I don't want to play this anymore. I'm playing the original Saints Row instead.

Abnormal Palm

I'm playing Ketsui Kizuna Jigoku Tachi, one of the greatest games of all time. Just a shame that this bent timeline prefers to play Sylvanian Families.