Places I can actually afford to buy a flat in London - how shit are they really?

[23 Daves]

Friends, it's simple. After years of being dicked around and ripped off by landlords to a greater or lesser degree (I've just had the rent put up yet again in a like-it-or-lump-it arrangement) my wife and I have decided enough is enough. We want to buy somewhere of our own.

Of course, anyone who works and lives in London knows that it's not as simple as that. You have to find an area to live in you can afford. And you have to find a decent place (or, as Kirstie Allsop would put it, "proper-teeee") in that area. This is not proving to be easy. We've narrowed our sexy locations down to the following, and I'd be interested in hearing people's opinions. Seriously. This isn't a mission to find the trendiest, swishest, most happening cultural place in the capital, it's about finding somewhere halfway bearable to tolerate rather than actually enjoy.

Barking - Barking. Oh Barking. My sister lived here many, many years ago, and back in those days it was something of a shithole with nothing much to recommend it, but the train and bus services out were plentiful and good (still are) and you always got the impression you could exist there doing pretty much what you wanted within the law without getting up too many people's noses.
These days, of course, it's apparently gone downhill from that and is BNP and UKIP central. I've Googled various other forums already, and of the 60 or so comments I read about Barking, only 2 were positive. The rest seemed to say that the town centre after 9pm was aggressive, that it was dodgy for women late at night (mind you, so is Streatham, though that gets talked about less), that you WILL get shoulder-barged in the street or even punched by feral ne-er-do-wells, etc... is all this exaggerated nonsense or is Barking really some kind of violent, racist shitheap these days? Because it's easily the cheapest place to buy a property (I have no doubt the two facts are connected, but it's worth asking).
Barking does have an arts centre now, so somebody is obviously trying to gentrify the place...

Ilford - I was born in Ilford and lived there until I was about ten, before anyone gets clever. Again, it's an unexciting bit of London, birthplace of Noel Edmonds, Louise Wener and Simon Amstell, all of whom got out as soon as they could. Some of the jokes in "Grandma's House" make a bit more sense if you have any kind of background with the area.
I have a lot of affection for the area, but it's probably misplaced. People pull faces to suggest that moving there would be an appalling idea. "It's a bit rough, you know, and it's getting worse".

Romford - not even properly in London (a fairly long commute to my workplace) not a pleasant place to hang around, and not a contender for both those reasons so far as I'm concerned. But still, share any experiences you may have of the place.

Tottenham - home of many riots. It's "up and coming" now, apparently, but the last time I was there about two years ago I felt this wave of depression washing over me. One of those places where people walk either with their heads hung low, or march down the street staring furiously ahead as a warning to anyone who might cross their path. Lots of empty pubs which had been set alight as well. So, how "up" has it "come" since then?

Newbury Park - Properties seldom seem to come up here, but when they do they seem bigger and cheaper than expected. What's the catch? Is this actually an OK place to live? I know very little about it apart from the fact that I grew up a few miles down the road.

The reasons my search is pretty Easterly is because my parents live in a small town in Essex, my father's health is failing, and I need to be somewhere where I can quickly get out and help them at the weekends if need be. There are other places in South London and far West London we could probably afford, but they would be less practical from that point of view. Hopefully this also answers everyone's "But you could just leave London and both of you could just get the non-existent jobs which miraculously pay the same thing in North Wales and then you could live like royalty!!!!" point.

[Paul Calf]

You tend to get even less warning when interest rates go up. Don't fall into the trap of thinking:

a) That a mortgage will be significantly cheaper than rent. And when your boiler explodes a week before Christmas, that's another three grand. And when Hurricane Cuntychops blows the tiles off the roof, that's another £1500. And when the back fence is blown down, that's another £750.All of these things have happened to me in the last 18 months.

b) That you won't own the house in any meaningful sense until you've paid your mortgage off, by which time you will probably be in your 70s. So you're essentially buying a coffin.

Also bear in mind that we're at a very high water mark of pressure on housing. As anti-immigration legislation kicks in and the boomers die off, demand will drop nearer to supply. And interest can't remain effectively negative forever.

Be sure that you've disabused yourself of all the notions of 'having your own place' and 'property being the best investment' before you proceed.

Good luck.

[Zetetic]

Of course, anyone who works and lives in London knows that it's not as simple as that. You have to find an area to live in you can afford.

So close.

The reasons my search is pretty Easterly is because my parents live in a small town in Essex, my father's health is failing, and I need to be somewhere where I can quickly get out and help them at the weekends if need be. There are other places in South London and far West London we could probably afford, but they would be less practical from that point of view. Hopefully this also answers everyone's "But you could just leave London and both of you could just get the non-existent jobs which miraculously pay the same thing in North Wales and then you could live like royalty!!!!" point.

Eh.

[Sony Walkman Prophecies]

I'm residing in Chingford at the moment. Don't know what the house prices are like but it looks worth looking into - direct 20 min train into the City, nice pastoral village green bit, a few rustic pubs and some vaguely aspirational shops and restaurants. A lot of low-quality takeaways and off-licenses situated amongst the gentrified bits, but then, Earl's Court has plenty of those - and that's in Kensington.

[Dr Rock]

The reasons my search is pretty Easterly is because my parents live in a small town in Essex, my father's health is failing, and I need to be somewhere where I can quickly get out and help them at the weekends if need be.

Similar. So I'd say consider anywhere you can quickly get on the North/South Circular and you'll be out of London faster than places geographically nearer. Pop any places you consider into google maps and you'll see how fast you can get there. Assuming you mean by car.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Places I can actually afford to buy a flat in London - how shit are they really?

ABSOLUTE



FUCKING



TURD MATE

[Dr Rock]

Top Tip - live somewhere where there are lots of Jewish and Asian folk like I do and you won't have dogshit on the streets, because they don't like dogs. Live somewhere where there are lots of working class or gay people and it's dogshit city.

(Probably the only place where there are lots of gay people is Hampstead and I expect that's not on your radar.)

[Dr Rock]

lots of working class or gay people

I'm allowed to say that as I am working class and gay. Well I'm not gay but I've happily considered it.

[23 Daves]

You tend to get even less warning when interest rates go up. Don't fall into the trap of thinking:

a) That a mortgage will be significantly cheaper than rent. And when your boiler explodes a week before Christmas, that's another three grand. And when Hurricane Cuntychops blows the tiles off the roof, that's another £1500. And when the back fence is blown down, that's another £750.All of these things have happened to me in the last 18 months.

b) That you won't own the house in any meaningful sense until you've paid your mortgage off, by which time you will probably be in your 70s. So you're essentially buying a coffin.

Also bear in mind that we're at a very high water mark of pressure on housing. As anti-immigration legislation kicks in and the boomers die off, demand will drop nearer to supply. And interest can't remain effectively negative forever.

Be sure that you've disabused yourself of all the notions of 'having your own place' and 'property being the best investment' before you proceed.

Good luck.

This is more-or-less the conversation I had with my wife when we started talking about this (with me taking your side of the argument). I'm less keen than she is. However, I am sick of constantly being shunted from pillar to post by landlords and either their rent hikes, or their sudden decisions to sell up. I'm also tired of hearing them whine and talk in condescending tones when I report a problem and act as if it is entirely my doing (I got a stern lecture from the landlord about a blocked drain earlier this year, even though the drain wasn't working 100% properly when we moved in). I want a slightly more predictable life which is slightly more under my control. And I genuinely worry we won't be able to find anywhere decent to rent soon the way things are going.

And this definitely isn't an investment, it's somewhere to live for the next 10-15 years or so.

Regarding property demand, I don't think it's going anywhere in London in the medium term. Jobs aren't being moved out in the quantity they need to be, the city isn't losing its allure for Europeans as a place to start or progress a career, and houses aren't really getting built. Right now, the amount of properties on the market is the lowest its been in decades, and nobody seems to have the political will to get new ones built (apart from the Greens, but they aren't taking power anytime soon).

[Paul Calf]

All of which means that your future prosperity depends on the UK retaining a Tory or Toryesque government who will continue to implement batshit insane housing policy for the forseeable.

[Beagle 2]

I don't know about Newbury Park, but I'd rank all those other places as the most depressing I ever visited in London. What about heading out Surbiton way?Still, I guess with the wealth that's slopping about in that city it might just mean that almost everywhere gets a little posher eventually. Tottenham though.

[23 Daves]

All of which means that your future prosperity depends on the UK retaining a Tory or Toryesque government who will continue to implement batshit insane housing policy for the forseeable.

Labour aren't going to build more affordable houses or council properties or make any of this easier! They'll talk about it until the cows come home, but they're not actually going to do it. Far too many of them have vested interests in the property market.

Anyway, look, this is about finding me a home, not somewhere I might be turfed out after one year only to start the house search all over again. Not about finding me an "investment" or a sure-fire "great deal".

[Paul Calf]

(Probably the only place where there are lots of gay people is Hampstead and I expect that's not on your radar.)

And Befnaw Gween but that's a bit pricey these days.

[Paul Calf]

Labour...

Toryesque

;)

[Endicott]

You tend to get even less warning when interest rates go up. Don't fall into the trap of thinking:

a) That a mortgage will be significantly cheaper than rent. And when your boiler explodes a week before Christmas, that's another three grand. And when Hurricane Cuntychops blows the tiles off the roof, that's another £1500. And when the back fence is blown down, that's another £750.All of these things have happened to me in the last 18 months.

True enough. In 12 years of owning 3 grand on the roof, 2 on a new bathroom when the existing one's walls collapsed. Not to mention the money I'm thinking of spending on new windows, preferably before the old ones fall out which won't be long now.

b) That you won't own the house in any meaningful sense until you've paid your mortgage off, by which time you will probably be in your 70s. So you're essentially buying a coffin.

Not so sure I go along with this. That means you live rent and mortgate free in your 70s. Not an unreasonable proposition. And if I sold up tomorrow I'd have 150 grand in my back pocket.

Also bear in mind that we're at a very high water mark of pressure on housing. As anti-immigration legislation kicks in and the boomers die off, demand will drop nearer to supply. And interest can't remain effectively negative forever.

And I think this will take longer than you appear to think. Current housing policy is cunty and is going to try to keep the gap going.

Any way good luck Daves. I don't really know the areas you're asking about.

[23 Daves]

;)

OK, point taken. I think I'm safe on that front, though.

[23 Daves]

Had a look in Ilford. "It's shit", say the CaB gang. "It's like most other bits of East London", say I.

What's great about Ilford is that you have Valentines Park right in the middle of it, which always has been a beautiful and well-maintained spot. The rest is middling, and certainly not entertainment central, but it's relatively well connected. Compared to hipster spots Walthamstow, Leyton or Leytonstone, aesthetically there's really not a great deal in it.

Tame squirrels you can feed monkey nuts to, now that's a definite plus as well.

Haven't visited Barking yet. Don't know if I'll bother.

[Sony Walkman Prophecies]

Came across this at work: http://www.propertyweek.com/opinion/expert-comment/outer-london-boroughs-are-capital%E2%80%99s-real-success-story/5075184.article

[WhoMe]

Hainault, maybe? My sis and her partner are living there now, had no problems and got plenty of space for their money. The Central line is 5 minutes away. Has got its chavvy element but so it goes in any 'affordable' area really.

[Brundle-Fly]

What about Hornsey?  I've a mate with a family of four who's just bought a place there and seems very happy. He's not particularly loaded either.

Or if that's too pricey what about Barnet?  I've lived in North London since 1992, so I'm a bit biased.  No, I'm actually generally ignorant of what it's like to live in the rest of the capital, (apart from residing for three years in a West London bedsit in the mid 1980s)

[23 Daves]

Hainault, maybe? My sis and her partner are living there now, had no problems and got plenty of space for their money. The Central line is 5 minutes away. Has got its chavvy element but so it goes in any 'affordable' area really.

Hainault is technically part of Ilford (or at least, that's how we understood it when I was growing up). But yes, that and Barkingside are definitely on the table as options, though they'd involve quite long commutes.

[non capisco]

Compared to hipster spots Walthamstow, Leyton or Leytonstone

Is Leyton a hipster spot now? I used to be in Leyton quite a lot in 2012 because my best pal lived there and it didn't seem that hipsterish then. There was a newsagent called 'Shop-Shop-A-Shop' which I started to suspect was run by Mr. Biffo from Digitiser, but a distinct lack of overly waxed moustaches and these topknot/shaved sides haircuts that look like they were inspired by some of the cast of Tod Browning's 'Freaks'.

[Nice Relaxing Poo]

Fuck living in Barking or Tottingham. Two of the worst places to live in London hands down (Tottenham being the worst of the two), I'd choose something within the M25 not on the tube map but on a train route, people in London seem to think that living near a tube station is the be all and end all when in fact half the time it's a fucking shit mode of transport (especially if you live in zones 6-->). Romford, Ilford etc are easily better than Barking/Tottenham and probably as cheap.

[23 Daves]

Is Leyton a hipster spot now? I used to be in Leyton quite a lot in 2012 because my best pal lived there and it didn't seem that hipsterish then. There was a newsagent called 'Shop-Shop-A-Shop' which I started to suspect was run by Mr. Biffo from Digitiser, but a distinct lack of overly waxed moustaches and these topknot/shaved sides haircuts that look like they were inspired by some of the cast of Tod Browning's 'Freaks'.

So I'm Told. By which, I mean it should probably be taken with a pinch of salt. My manager at work told me "Leyton's really posh now!" last week, which is interesting because when I lived in Walthamstow Leyton was on my morning running route, and it didn't seem even remotely posh then. In fact, it was the dreary bit of the run so far as I was always concerned, and indeed the one bit where glaring, demonic parents would without fail take up the entirety of the pavement with their family and buggies and refuse to allow me even a small squeeze of space to get past. It was always remembered in my mind as the bit of the run filled with fucking miserable families who looked like they hated everyone and would rather be anywhere else. (As opposed to the Walthamstow Village bit of the run which was always filled with cloth-cap wearing Dads who looked like they'd styled themselves on Alex out of Blur).

But anyway... not anymore, apparently. Like you, I'm rather sceptical that it could have changed that much in two or three years.

[hoverdonkey]

Tottenham's about to get parts of it gentrified by the football club's new stadium and subsequent regeneration of the surrounding area. I only walk through it to get to games and spend zero time there outside the ground because it's frankly a pretty scary place to be taking a seven-year-old.

Also £750 for a fence Mr Calf? What's that thing made of?!

[Dr Rock]

I went through Leyton recently and it was as horrific as ever. Hope that helps.

[WesterlyWinds]

Places I can actually afford to buy a flat in London:



Hope that helps.

[Paul Calf]

I went through London recently and it was as horrific as ever. Hope that helps.

Helps.

[Crabwalk]

Go south of the river, Daves. I bought my first place (a damp basement flat) in Peckham, just before the subsequent gentrification. But I can't be held responsible for that, and it's still a hugely diverse area that's not been too spoiled.

We moved out 4 years ago and prices have gone nuts since, by all accounts. If there's anywhere you can afford there I'd recommend it as a great area to live. Sure, that pregnant lady had her unborn child stamped to death right outside the front door of my old flat last week, but I still miss the place.

Edit: And it's pretty quick to get out East from Peckham, Rotherhithe and New Cross, thanks to the Rotherhithe tunnel.

[Too Many Cochranes]

Why did she do that? Surely she'd get hurt as well.