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'Whatever Happened To The Likely Lads?' thread

Started by Serge, July 15, 2015, 03:25:16 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Serge

Prompted by a lot of off-topic conversation in another thread, and the fact I'm about to start my umpteenth rewatch of this, my favourite sitcom. Between this and 'Porridge', Clement & Le Frenais were really at the height of their powers in the early to mid seventies, weren't they? Althogh the original 'Likely Lads' from the sixties is good, it never quite hits the heights of its sequel, and of course, when most people speak of 'The Likely Lads', they really mean 'Whatever Happened To...'. Anyway, I'm probably going to kick off my re-re-re-re-re-re(etc)-watch later today, so in the meantime, fill this space with thoughts from your brains.

Ignatius_S

Quote from: Serge on July 15, 2015, 03:25:16 PM
Prompted by a lot of off-topic conversation in another thread...

About time!

Quote from: Serge on July 15, 2015, 03:25:16 PM...Between this and 'Porridge', Clement & Le Frenais were really at the height of their powers in the early to mid seventies, weren't they?...

In terms of sitcoms, I would agree with that (although Going Straight is underrated and came slightly later) but their later work, where they branched out is impressive – in particular, Auf Wiedersehen Pet. The creation of Witzend was canny and one particularly successful project (although, IIRC one of them was involved) was the television adaptation of Lovejoy.

Quote from: Serge on July 15, 2015, 03:25:16 PM... Althogh the original 'Likely Lads' from the sixties is good, it never quite hits the heights of its sequel...

I would phrase it slightly differently - the sequel was even more successful than the first. It's easy to overlook how popular The Likely Lads and that the follow-up was even better was no mean feat.

Incidentally, I feel the radio versions of The Likely Lads (adapted by James Bolam and off the top of my head, that's a unique feat, the TV star adapting the radio version) show how good the plotting and dialogue of the original episodes were. Television recordings can be a little offputting because of the relatively basic production values and poor audio/visual quality; although the radio version audio quality is variable, I think it's easier to focus on the undeniable quality of acting and writing.

Serge

Quote from: Ignatius_S on July 15, 2015, 04:02:27 PMAbout time!

Ha! Going back to work has really eaten into my internet time...

QuoteIn terms of sitcoms, I would agree with that (although Going Straight is underrated and came slightly later) but their later work, where they branched out is impressive – in particular, Auf Wiedersehen Pet. The creation of Witzend was canny and one particularly successful project (although, IIRC one of them was involved) was the television adaptation of Lovejoy.

I'd forgotten about 'Going Straight' - I thought that was much better than its reputation would suggest as well. Never really got on with 'Auf Weidersehen', for some reason. Of course, they're also script writers and polishers in Hollywood, too. They've not done too badly, all told, have they?

ajsmith

What I'd really like to see is James Bolam getting pranked into being forced to meet and make up with Rodney Bewes before either of them dies.

It could go like this: Bolam gets a fake invitation to go to the BBC to star in some made up prestige drama. Only when he gets to the studio, there's no-one else there and the lights are all off. Creak, clunk, the door behind him shuts and locks. Slowly, a dimmer switch goes up, and Bolam find himself alone in a sealed vault facing Bewes. The grumpy old git is forced to reconcile with his erstwhile co-star before it's too late while hidden cameras capture the whole cringeworthy at first/eventually life affirming reconciliation and broadcast it live to a whooping, Big Brother - style audience waiting outside.

Twibbie

So, just from reading Wikipedia if i've got this right, there's eight TV episodes missing which were broadcast on radio (Where have all the flowers gone?, Baby it's cold outside, Outward bound, The talk of the town, Anchors away, Friends and neighbours, Love and marriage, Brief encounter/Their hearts were touched by Ursula, Chance of a lifetime)? Is it possible to hear these? Wikipedia also says audio exists for the TV episodes Outward bound, Brief encounter, Anchors away and The razor's edge - are these available? I looked on Amazon but there's only a cassette with four episodes. Do they broadcast them on Radio 4 Extra?

Whatever... is definitely more thoughtful and nuanced than its predecessor although i'm not sure it has any episode that makes me laugh as much as The rocker.

Anyway, will rewatch all these soon too and see if i have any new thoughts. Ignatius_S tried to persuade me of the merits of the film in the other thread, so when i've watched all the TV episodes i'll try that again as well.

Twibbie

Couple more questions while i'm at it...

Quote from: Ignatius_S on July 15, 2015, 04:02:27 PMIt's easy to overlook how popular The Likely Lads and that the follow-up was even better was no mean feat.

Does anyone have an idea what the viewing figures for the two shows actually were? The original series started on BBC2, so maybe not as high as some other shows although Whatever... was BBC1 so i expect must have got very high figures.

And while searching for information about viewing figures, i found this interview with Bewes from 2005 which says:

QuoteDespite reports of a rift, he says he's actually on good terms with Bolam. "We're still good friends. We go for a 'swift half' in London.."

He's immensely proud of his Likely Lad role and happy to talk about it - unlike co-star Brigit Forsyth, who played his screen partner Thelma Chambers, the prim librarian.

Bewes says: "I thought that was terrible. She's very lucky to be associated with something that makes people smile to this day."

What's that all about then?

ajsmith

Quote from: Twibbie on July 15, 2015, 06:14:33 PM
Couple more questions while i'm at it...

Does anyone have an idea what the viewing figures for the two shows actually were? The original series started on BBC2, so maybe not as high as some other shows although Whatever... was BBC1 so i expect must have got very high figures.

And while searching for information about viewing figures, i found this interview with Bewes from 2005 which says:

What's that all about then?

That must be the last interview he ever did where he pretended he was still friends with Bolam: His autobio where he revealed they hadn't spoken since 1976 came out the same year. Can't help but think that Brigit Forsyth is getting the collateral damage from Bewes actual feelings on Bolam here

Serge

Quote from: Twibbie on July 15, 2015, 05:54:17 PMIgnatius_S tried to persuade me of the merits of the film in the other thread, so when i've watched all the TV episodes i'll try that again as well.

The film's not bad, just not quite up to the standard of the TV show, as I remember - I'll rewatch it again when I've finished with the TV show. I seem to recall it's light on the more slower-paced scenes of the Lads just sitting and reminiscing or putting the World to rights, which are what make the TV show, and a bit heavier on the 'comic' mishaps. I'll have to see how my memory holds up on this one!

As for the Bewes quote, that seems to go against what he's largely said about Bolam - that they haven't spoken since they made the film. 'Reports of a rift' would seem likely to stem from Bewews, as he's the one who seems to go on about it! Not sure about the Forsyth thing, that's the first I've heard of that, but would again look to Bewes' Syndrome for that....

EDIT: As ajsmith said...!

ajsmith

Something I'm not sure on, wonder if anyone can put me right on it: Is Thelma in the original 'The Likely Lads', and if so, is she played by Brigit Forsyth? Seem to remember reading somewhere she's only in one episode, but played by someone else.

Twibbie

According to Wikipedia Thelma appears in one episode of The likely lads (played by Forsyth):

QuoteAlthough in the colour sequel much was made of Thelma, who was said to have been Bob's childhood sweetheart, she appeared only once in the original show, in which Bob had no steady girlfriend and was forever "chasing skirt", though she was mentioned in some episodes in series three, including "Rocker" and "Goodbye to All That".

Ignatius_S

Quote from: Twibbie on July 15, 2015, 06:52:16 PM
According to Wikipedia Thelma appears in one episode of The likely lads (played by Forsyth):

She does, but I believe it was portrayed by a different actress - it certainly was in the radio show. In the episode, Bob drunkenly announces his engagement to Thelma at a party but can't remember anything about the next day; although he wants to break it off, he's terrified of facing her but the payoff is she doesn't want to marry him and is worried about hurting his feelings and 'leading him on'. She comes across as far less refined than in the sequel.

But I will check that!

*edit* Right... Thelma was in the radio version but not the television one. The episode's plot is as above but Bob's betrothed is called Helen but this was changed to Thelma on the radio. The actor who played Helen wasn't available for the radio recording, so they got someone who had been in the second episode of TV's first series - Susan Jameson.... who first met her future partner, James Bolam, through the show!

Ignatius_S

Quote from: Twibbie on July 15, 2015, 06:14:33 PM...
Does anyone have an idea what the viewing figures for the two shows actually were? The original series started on BBC2, so maybe not as high as some other shows although Whatever... was BBC1 so i expect must have got very high figures.....

Yes - I thought there was information about this in the book by Richard Webber with Dick Clement and Ian La Frenais, Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads?, and there is. I was going to mention this work as it's really worth a read.

The information for the first two series isn't available but for the third it ranged between 0.4-0.6 million.

However, each episode was then repeated shortly afterwards (approximately four months) on BBC1 - the first ever episode's viewing figures was 8 million and the last ever episode had 13.7 million.

The book mentions that when the series launched people needed a new TV and aerial to watch BBC2; it says that it was well received when first broadcast but it was the repeats where it really took off.

It says that when the BBC2 Controller, Michael Peacock moved to BBC1, he liked the show so much that he persuaded his successor (David Attenborough) to let him repeated. It would have also received a boost when the lads did a sketch on Christmas With The Stars, which was watched by 18.6 million (incidentally, that came two days after the second ever episode being shown on BBC2).

Because I have too much time on my hands think it will be interesting, I'll type up the viewing figures when I've more time.

Serge

So, the great rewatch of 2015 begins, with Strangers On A Train. It only struck me today that Clements and Le Frenais have a habit of naming episodes after other people's works - this one, for a start, 'Guess Who's Coming To Dinner?', 'No Hiding Place', 'The Go-Between', etc. ('Porridge' also has some - 'The Desperate Hours' for one.) It's interesting that there's an assumption that people watching this episode will already be familiar with the characters and what has happened before, i.e. Terry going into the army, but then, I suppose in 1973, that would be exactly the case - most people watching this would more than likely have been fans of the original.

The woman on the train is very trusting, leaving both her kids with Terry! I've always wondered if the baby in this one is the same baby used for Audrey and Ern's kid later in the series. I still think that Bob and Terry would have recognised each other's voices sooner than they do, but that's a minor quibble - I love how Bolam manages to convey anger when just appearing in silhouette. 'The Pink Floyd'. Terry's disdainful "Tennis!" is a highlight. Points knocked off for the quasi-predatory homosexual barman, very much of its time! And the switching of coats/baggage/place on the train is so beautifully executed - Clement & Le Frenais are always very good with the tightness of their scripts, everything is logical and right. Terry's reference to Doncaster's 'Latin Quarter' prefigures Bob talking about its Mardi Gras season in episode two.

References to Terry's injury that he never talks about: 3

Twibbie

Quote from: Serge on July 15, 2015, 08:56:45 PMI still think that Bob and Terry would have recognised each other's voices sooner than they do, but that's a minor quibble - I love how Bolam manages to convey anger when just appearing in silhouette.

I think they'd recognise each other's voices instantly really, but it doesn't break the suspension of disbelief and is well worth it for "... you bastard." You're right about Terry's silhouette too, every time i see this episode i start cackling at that.

I'm gonna start watching the eight The likely lads episodes now, keep them fresh in the mind for rewatching Whatever.

QuotePoints knocked off for the quasi-predatory homosexual barman, very much of its time!

Yeah, there's a fair few jokes around homosexuality throughout The likely lads and Whatever... i seem to recall. Most of them seem to be portrayals of the attitudes of the times (usually Terry and Bob being told their a pair of queens by someone who's got the wrong end of the stick regarding something they've said) but i remember the one in this episode is meaner.

Virgo76

I enjoyed the film. Perhaps the best of the generally poor 70s big screen sitcom adaptations.

Gulftastic

Quote from: Virgo76 on July 16, 2015, 10:44:33 AM
I enjoyed the film. Perhaps the best of the generally poor 70s big screen sitcom adaptations.

Tied with 'Porridge' for that honour, IMHO.

I wonder if the two had something in common that might explain........

Ignatius_S

Quote from: Serge on July 15, 2015, 05:20:38 PM...I'd forgotten about 'Going Straight' - I thought that was much better than its reputation would suggest as well. Never really got on with 'Auf Weidersehen', for some reason. Of course, they're also script writers and polishers in Hollywood, too. They've not done too badly, all told, have they?

Wasn't too keen on the Auf Weidersehen Pet reunion – that said, it was pretty strong and it did do pretty well – but I think the first show stands up very well today. As you say, they have done pretty well for themselves! This is hardly a little known fact but Sean Connery insisted they were  brought in to script doctor The Rock.

Quote from: Twibbie on July 15, 2015, 05:54:17 PM
So, just from reading Wikipedia if i've got this right, there's eight TV episodes missing which were broadcast on radio (Where have all the flowers gone?, Baby it's cold outside, Outward bound, The talk of the town, Anchors away, Friends and neighbours, Love and marriage, Brief encounter/Their hearts were touched by Ursula, Chance of a lifetime)? Is it possible to hear these? Wikipedia also says audio exists for the TV episodes Outward bound, Brief encounter, Anchors away and The razor's edge - are these available? I looked on Amazon but there's only a cassette with four episodes. Do they broadcast them on Radio 4 Extra?...

Off the top of my head, I don't know if the audio versions of the TV recordings have ever been made available. With the radio version, IIRC, Extra broadcasts Whatever but not sure about TLL – I seem to remember hearing one or two; it might be that someone had selected them. However, episodes are played weekly at: http://rokradio.com/british-comedy-channel-program-guide/ Let's just say they broadcast a lot of good stuff and we shouldn't count our blessings.

Quote from: Twibbie on July 15, 2015, 06:14:33 PM....And while searching for information about viewing figures, i found this interview with Bewes from 2005 which says:

What's that all about then?

That's a new one on me – can't recall anything about Forsyth and I tend to take things from Bewes with a pinch of salt.

Slight tangent, but when I was doing more research about Bewes and Bolam, I found an Internet discussion that quoted one of my posts here!

Quote from: Serge on July 15, 2015, 08:56:45 PM
So, the great rewatch of 2015 begins, with Strangers On A Train. It only struck me today that Clements and Le Frenais have a habit of naming episodes after other people's works - this one, for a start, 'Guess Who's Coming To Dinner?', 'No Hiding Place', 'The Go-Between', etc. ('Porridge' also has some - 'The Desperate Hours' for one.) It's interesting that there's an assumption that people watching this episode will already be familiar with the characters and what has happened before, i.e. Terry going into the army, but then, I suppose in 1973, that would be exactly the case - most people watching this would more than likely have been fans of the original.

The woman on the train is very trusting, leaving both her kids with Terry! I've always wondered if the baby in this one is the same baby used for Audrey and Ern's kid later in the series. I still think that Bob and Terry would have recognised each other's voices sooner than they do, but that's a minor quibble - I love how Bolam manages to convey anger when just appearing in silhouette. 'The Pink Floyd'. Terry's disdainful "Tennis!" is a highlight. Points knocked off for the quasi-predatory homosexual barman, very much of its time! And the switching of coats/baggage/place on the train is so beautifully executed - Clement & Le Frenais are always very good with the tightness of their scripts, everything is logical and right. Terry's reference to Doncaster's 'Latin Quarter' prefigures Bob talking about its Mardi Gras season in episode two.

References to Terry's injury that he never talks about: 3

I would pretty much agree with that! With the barman, I seem to remember that he's played straight and his sexuality is only revealed at the payoff, whereas it was customary to portray gay males in an obviously camp manner. Although the joke is very much of its time, I think that element sets it slightly a part from similar business. Thinking about it, I seem to recall as the barman says that, he also hands Terry's change in a very meaningful way (giving the impression he's available) without that (and maybe a vocal change?) there would be more ambiguity, I suspect. But it's a moot point!

Quote from: Twibbie on July 15, 2015, 11:30:56 PM....Yeah, there's a fair few jokes around homosexuality throughout The likely lads and Whatever... i seem to recall. Most of them seem to be portrayals of the attitudes of the times (usually Terry and Bob being told their a pair of queens by someone who's got the wrong end of the stick regarding something they've said) but i remember the one in this episode is meaner.

Yes, there's one where they get chucked out of a pub because the landlord thought they were gay. Another when Terry is taken to the hairdressers. Also, when they talk about one of Thelma's relations (uncle, I think)  as being the black sheep of the family.

With the hairdressing one, a lot of the humour could be said to be derived from Terry's homophobia. With the last example, Bob doesn't come out and say exactly (but says 'he's... you know... he's) and Terry later comments 'Well, they're all poofs in Harrogate. Although they enjoy a good chuckle about that (or perhaps more about something that Mrs Chambers wouldn't want the neighbours knowing), they say 'ah well, it takes all sorts' and seem to have a live and let live attitude – also, from what I remember, Terry met him at the wedding and although he's not overly surprised, doesn't think of him straight away.

Also, there's the business where Terry thinks the tailor is gay, when they're being measured for their outfits, but the humour there, I would say, is completely derived from laughing at Terry's attitudes.

While I remember, when it was repeated a while back, someone was raving to me about how good it was but was very taken aback about the homosexuality jokes and commented that you certainly couldn't do that these days. I don't think it marred his overall enjoyment, but just found that element was dated. FWIW, he would have been in his teens (I think) during the first broadcast.

Quote from: Virgo76 on July 16, 2015, 10:44:33 AM
I enjoyed the film. Perhaps the best of the generally poor 70s big screen sitcom adaptations.

Personally, I think they get a bad rap. They were intended to exploit a success show and were targeting the audience at the time. Some do a better job than others, but just about all are a darn sight better than the woeful sex comedies of the same period. With something like Bless This House, my gut feeling is that the film stands up better today than the TV series.

Also, sometimes people – this doesn't include anyone here ! – base their opinions on incorrect impressions about what was happening in British cinema at the time and strange points of view. I remember someone (ages ago) posting an article about sitcom adaptations and one criticism was that they weren't filmed in the same way as they were for television!

Quote from: Gulftastic on July 16, 2015, 10:50:00 AM
Tied with 'Porridge' for that honour, IMHO.

I wonder if the two had something in common that might explain........

It's also worth remembering that Clement and La Frenais were already experienced in writing for film, which wasn't the case with a lot of the other writers adapting their work for cinema.

Twibbie

Funnily enough talking about how they're filmed, i watched Entente cordiale and Double date last night, and apart from both being very tightly written with a lot more cutting lines than i remember, the editing is top notch. There's that really stylish stills sequence depicting their night out in Double date, and the way the whole episode flits between the likely lads and the likely lasses talking about the same things without hearing the other side of it is razor sharp. The two women were a bit giggly for my liking but it's really good.

The amazing thing with Entente cordiale is how watching it retrospectively, the characters are fully established from the off. Terry's laid-back attitude and his flaws being picked apart by everyone, Bob preening about his outward-looking nature (and the façade habitually slipping), Audrey being dismissive of Terry and much more sororal towards Bob - it all sits as well as it would do in the middle of series two of Whatever. These aren't things which are revealed as the series progresses, the show starts at full speed.

I seem to remember a dip in the frequency of the jokes in the latter surviving episodes of The likely lads and series one being generally funnier. Will see if that bears out this time around.

Quote from: Ignatius_S on July 16, 2015, 01:55:42 PMOff the top of my head, I don't know if the audio versions of the TV recordings have ever been made available. With the radio version, IIRC, Extra broadcasts Whatever but not sure about TLL – I seem to remember hearing one or two; it might be that someone had selected them. However, episodes are played weekly at: http://rokradio.com/british-comedy-channel-program-guide/ Let's just say they broadcast a lot of good stuff and we shouldn't count our blessings.

Brilliant, thanks a lot for this.

hermitical

there's a torrent of 13 radio episodes on TVChaos

Whatever Happened To The Likely Lads - S01 - E01 - Strangers On A Train
Whatever Happened To The Likely Lads - S01 - E02 - Home Is The Hero
Whatever Happened To The Likely Lads - S01 - E03 - Cold Feet
Whatever Happened To The Likely Lads - S01 - E04 - Moving On
Whatever Happened To The Likely Lads - S01 - E05 - I'll Never Forget Whatshername
Whatever Happened To The Likely Lads - S01 - E06 - Birthday Boy
Whatever Happened To The Likely Lads - S01 - E07 - No Hiding Place
Whatever Happened To The Likely Lads - S01 - E08 - Guess Who's Coming To Dinner
Whatever Happened To The Likely Lads - S01 - E09 - Storm In A Tea Chest
Whatever Happened To The Likely Lads - S01 - E10 - The Old Magic
Whatever Happened To The Likely Lads - S01 - E11 - Countdown
Whatever Happened To The Likely Lads - S01 - E12 - Boys' Night In
Whatever Happened To The Likely Lads - S01 - E13 - End Of An Era .

Serge

Quote from: Ignatius_S on July 16, 2015, 01:55:42 PMI would pretty much agree with that! With the barman, I seem to remember that he's played straight and his sexuality is only revealed at the payoff, whereas it was customary to portray gay males in an obviously camp manner. Although the joke is very much of its time, I think that element sets it slightly a part from similar business. Thinking about it, I seem to recall as the barman says that, he also hands Terry's change in a very meaningful way (giving the impression he's available) without that (and maybe a vocal change?) there would be more ambiguity, I suspect. But it's a moot point!

Before the 'big reveal', when he's handing them their drinks, the barman does give the Lads a lingering look, and when he hands Terry his change, he strokes his hand and calls him 'sailor'! It's just a little broad, but as I say, very much in keeping with the humour of the time, and I can see how it would jar with somebody of a younger generation. I think the barman throwing them out of the pub in a later episode is more shocking, as it's such a nasty thing to do (though again, I'm sure, not uncommon for the time, sadly...)

Twibbie

Thanks for that hermetical, those are Whatever episodes though which are just adaptations of the widely available TV series. There are radio episodes of The likely lads which now outlive their unfortunately missing corresponding TV episodes. According to that radio streaming listing they are on Wednesday at 0830 and 2030 so i ought to be able to capture some, hopefully.

Re the bartender throwing them out of the pub, i actually feel that's more dramatically justifiable in terms of simply reflecting attitudes at the time. We know the bartender's ignorant because he obviously doesn't know that Terry and Bob aren't gay. Nevertheless it's still played for laughs. It's frustrating but it's a fact of comedy of the time.

Although give it a few years and they'll probably be editing those scenes out of repeats! That's happened with quite a few racist bits, which i find completely unconscionable. Better to remember that these things existed than pretend they didn't.

Serge

Oh Christ, yes, I'd hate to see an edited version - it reflects the times it was made in and should be left alone, warts and all. Having said that, the most shocking thing in the series is Bob's jumper with a flower knitted on it (or is it a tank top? I can't remember.)

Gulftastic

Quote from: Ignatius_S on July 16, 2015, 01:55:42 PM
Personally, I think they get a bad rap. They were intended to exploit a success show and were targeting the audience at the time. Some do a better job than others, but just about all are a darn sight better than the woeful sex comedies of the same period. With something like Bless This House, my gut feeling is that the film stands up better today than the TV series.


I wonder if that's true of a lot of them. I certainly think the 'Please Sir!' film has stood the test of time a hell of a lot better than the TV show from which it came. It's been so long since I've seen a lot of them. I remember enjoying the 'Are You Being Served' film a lot as a youngster, but was never a big fan of the series.

Ignatius_S

Quote from: Gulftastic on July 16, 2015, 04:18:45 PM
I wonder if that's true of a lot of them. I certainly think the 'Please Sir!' film has stood the test of time a hell of a lot better than the TV show from which it came. It's been so long since I've seen a lot of them. I remember enjoying the 'Are You Being Served' film a lot as a youngster, but was never a big fan of the series.

Yeah, I would agree with the first one.

This might seem pedantic but the Are You Being Served? film was adapted from the stage play, rather than the television series so it's something of an oddity.

On the whole, I suspect that there the majority weren't better than the television series but Bless This House, I would say definitely is. Another is Up Pompeii; the TV series and the film largely only Frankie Howerd but there production values on the film are very superior and there's a better supporting cast, such as Madeline Smith,  Michael Hordern, Lance Perceval and Bill Fraser, not to mention a load of familiar faces. Also, the script was a darn sight better.

The On The Buses films, although I'm not a fan, are a lot more bearable than the TV version IMO. Also, I think the writing was improved.

I'm not familiar with the series, That's Your Funeral but the film was surprisingly funny (and I was amused that David Battley was the juvenile lead).

There were a couple of Alf Garnett films (think if the first was in the 1960s) that work very well and I would say that they stand up on their own merits without reference to the series. There, I feel, the writer really was looking to exploit the creative potential that a new format would give and were trying something different. To an extent, I think that happened with the Steptoe films, particularly the first which felt much more of a black comedy and the two main characters inhabiting a world far grimmer than in the series.

Out of them all, although my favourite would be something like Porridge or the Lads, I suspect Speight succeeded in the best adaptations in artistic terms.

Serge

So, to episode two, Home Is The Hero. The 'Doncaster Mardi Gras' bit I mentioned above is still one of the funniest things I've ever heard - I remember the first time I saw the episode I was in fits of laughter. "Ho, porter, what goes on?" The Ferris flower tank top makes its first appearance. I always get slightly annoyed by the shushing people in the library (despite having the concentration span of a gnat, and easily distracted from whatever I'm reading myself.) Audrey appears for the first time, and is immediately rude and insulting to Terry - which is all she ever is. What chance does he have when even his own sister constantly snipes at him? I do like Terry's comment when Bob points out that the rooms in his house are 16 by 12, while the ones down the road are 15 by 13: "I must be blind..."

Terry says, "True, true," for the first time, a turn of phrase I've adopted myself in his honour. I love the moment where Bob goes into the kitchen to get drinks after he's first heard about Jutta and turns back to look at Terry who is fidgeting and grimacing on the sofa. And Thelma's argument with herself via a silent Terry (who she thinks is Bob) about whether to stay or not is marvellously written and performed. Brigit Forsyth is fantastic. But....surely she would have noticed it wasn't Bob in the morning - she's practically looking right at his head at a couple of points! Oh, and I've also used the 'fingers can't be broken if you can wriggle them' rule in everyday life as well.

References to Terry's injury that he never talks about: 3. Total so far: 6

And then Cold Feet, which contains one of my favourite moments in the show, in fact, in all of TV, but I'll come to that in a  minute. The notorious scene with the homophobic barman is in this one, but the part leading up to that is great - Bob and Terry talking about how long Bob, Terry and Thelma have been rearranging their desks (metaphorically speaking.) I like the way that names that have no meaning outside of a specific comment are dropped into their conversations - "Frank Cheevers on the allotment," for example - it builds a whole world in your mind without having to show any of it.

Although they go to Audrey's so she can be mean to Terry again, I think the scene between her and Bob, talking about marriage, is lovely. Bewes is great in the phone conversation with Thelma, using the phrase "one of your migraines" three times in 10 seconds. And then, the great moment, the reveal of what the 'S' in Bob's name stands for.
Spoiler alert
"SCARBOROUGH?"
[close]
The look on Bolam's face as it's revealed is absolutely magic. As a side note, the couple having their banns read at the same time as Bob & Thelma are one of the wettest looking couples I've ever seen.

References to Terry's injury that he never talks about: None, but he does clutch his leg defensively at one point. Total so far: 6

Twibbie

Caught up with four more Likely lads episodes tongiht, two more then i'm on to Whatever. I love how the opening title sequences of the two shows seem so perfectly before and after. Existential hedonism versus melancholy nostalgia.

Series one is much more consistently funny and well-written than i remember. Older women are more experienced is strange. As episodes go it's probably the most archetypically broad - all male bonding between Terry, Bob, Jack and Cloughie who continually sexually demean the women around them (including some unpleasant arse-slapping) but the writing is so tight and robustly believable, Jack and Cloughie are perfectly realised as support cast and the dynamic between the four of them is magic. Following on from the cinematography of Double date there's also a lovely trailing shot when Terry's at Frida's place which traces the records on the floor and Frida's heels, and the scene culminates in the reveal of Terry labouring. This episode also introduced me to the use of the word nig-nog as a non-racist term. Suffice to say there'll be no hurry to reclaim it.

Other side of fence is notable principally for showcasing how poorly re-edited the DVDs are. Rather than re-print both DVDs with all the episodes in chronological order, this episode is chucked on as a "bonus feature" (... ) which means changing discs to view them all in order. It's a grand episode anyway, especially for Bolam's performance at the office do. It also really lays the groundwork for the social-mobility theme which dominates Whatever, even if it resolves with Bob temporarily renouncing his ambitions.

The Suitor is also worth mentioning because it incurred this take-down from Lanre Bakare in The Guardian:

Quote from: Lanre BakareThe Hartlepool heartbreakers have their moments in both the original series and its more popular follow-up Whatever Happened To The Likely Lads?, but it's pretty hard to laugh at 50 per cent of the output because it comes from the mouth of the unreconstructed racist, homophobic misogynist that is Terry Collier. The Suitor, where the pair cook up a harebrained scheme to stop Terry's sister from going out with Mario the Italian hairdresser because, as Tezza states, "Italians always breathe garlic all over you." It works out in the end because Mario's only pretending to be Italian – he's really called Ernie from Hull, is good at footy and can smash 12 pints of ale – so he's all right. In a way it's completely outdated, yet still totally contemporary. Take Tezza out of the 60s and put him into the world of Dapper Laughs, deep house and slut-shaming and he'd be in his element.

Even viewing that episode in isolation (never mind those that bookend it), Terry is constantly being told by every other symapthetic character that he is a bigot and coarse and narrow-minded. Woe betide the idea that a protagonist be flawed and ambiguous, to be likeable in spite of his shortcomings rather than have everything brightly signposted with "GOOD NICE THOUGHTFUL CHARACTER" and "BAD EVIL PREJUDICED CHARACTER".

It also has Bewes hilarious delivery of the line "Why don't you come out with me?" to Audrey, one of those bits that really makes me choke every time i hear it.

Serge

Mario/Ernie is played by George Layton in that episode, isn't he? I've always assumed that he's the same character that Ronald Lacey plays in 'Whatever' (he's a hairdresser called Ernie, so perhaps not that much of an assumption!) It's a shame that they couldn't fit in brief appearances by Jack & Cloughie in 'Whatever', though the latter does get mentioned in the first episode.

It's interesting what you say about Terry constantly being put down by those around him, something that continues in 'Whatever'. As I say, Audrey never speaks to him unless its to criticise him, and some of Bobs descriptions of how Terry behaves with women don't really square with what we see in the show (especially the episodes with Thelmas sister in.) I think part of the reason that most people - alright, most men - tend to side with Terry is that at least he's pretty upfront about his faults, whereas Bob tries to hide his for the sake of appearances.

non capisco

Quote from: Ignatius_S on July 16, 2015, 01:55:42 PM
This is hardly a little known fact but Sean Connery insisted they were  brought in to script doctor The Rock.

Because of their work on 'Never Say Never Again'? (Where they recycle the Porridge 'Can you fill this for me?'/'What, from here?!' urine sample gag. And why not? It is a belter. Although somewhat less funny when it's James Bond saying it rather than Fletcher)

Serge

Next up: Moving On. The whole opening sequence of them driving around the ruins of the old Newcastle and being overshadowed by the towering concrete blocks is fantastic. The extent of the devastation is unbelievable - I remember when I was growing up in Derby, many of the old streets were being levelled to make way for new houses, and recall playing on the 'bombsites' left behind, but the vast tracts of land left empty in shots in this episode is almost unreal - like the surface of the moon. And the multi-storey car park they stand on is the same one that Alf Roberts was thrown off in 'Get Carter' (now knocked down itself, I believe.)

Ronald Lacey's one and only appearance, and the first of many actors in common with 'Porridge'. The reveal that Bob is working for Thelma's dad is brilliantly done, after keeping that bit of information from us for nearly four episodes. First appearance of Elizabeth Lax as Wendy - she sadly died quite young, as I recall. Berwick-On-Tweed looks very nice! Interesting to hear Bob talking about giving it all up to go on the road with Terry - something I don't think comes up again later. I also love how Ronnie Hazlehurst's one contribution to the series (the little piece of incidental music as Bob goes to Berwick) gains him a higher credit than Mike Hugg & Ian Le Frenais for this one episode - how much power did that man have?

Oh, and one of the great last lines: "Because he loves me."

References to Terry's injury that he never talks about: 1. Total so far: 7.

Twibbie

Watched Rocker and Goodbye to all that as well as getting started on iWhatever, of which i'm really enjoying Serge's analysis.

Rocker is grand, it starts slowly but builds into an absolute tour de force from Bolam. His schadenfreude for Bob's misery shouldn't be so enjoyable but i think it's because we know his comeuppance is always coming. "I heard that that traffic island was doing at least 30 miles an hour" and "There's a letter here from the Ministry of Transport. 'Most road accidents are not accidents at all. They need not happen. They are often caused by idiots driving into dustbins.'"

I remember the first time i watched the emergency stop sequence having to pause it and rewind because the climax just killed me, one of my favourite bits of slapstick. It's fantastically shot

I always think of Goodbye to all that as being fairly light on laughs, it's got some really great lines though. Possibly a high point for Bewes in the original show. The funny thing about it is that given that it was a provisional farewell to these characters, the ending is funny but... fucking hell, it's really bleak isn't it?

This episode also really made me appreciate Sheila Fearn. I said i wanted to look at how the show treated women on a rewatch, and although it tends to be patchy with other characters, Audrey is magnificent. Serge keeps pointing out how mean she is to Terry but her relationship with Terry and Bob is so recognisable. It's like she's not a character who's been written into a sitcom as a support cast, she really comes across as having lived with these people all their lives and has years of baggage associated with her temperament.