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Batman (comics) questions/discussion

Started by madhair60, July 22, 2015, 10:04:25 AM

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Spiteface

So, anyone else read the first issue of Dark Knight III: The Master Race yet?

I just did, and am interested to see where it goes. Maybe it's down to the theory that Azzarello's actually doing the heavy lifting here, but much better than Dark Knight Strikes Again. Going to spoiler tag some things here just in case anyone's not read it yet:

Spoiler alert
I liked the swerve with seeing the glass case where the suit was, suggesting that Bruce Wayne was out and about again, then right at the end, when the Police catch up and unmask "him" it turns out to be Carrie Kelley (Whatever happened to the "New 52" Carrie anyway? They made a big deal out of it, then she disappeared from the Batman & Robin Book entirely...), who then tells Commissioner Yindel that "Bruce Wayne is Dead".

Although it could be construed as trying to make Dark Knight "modern" it kinda makes sense that there's text messages exchanged between kids who claim they saw Batman when he's been gone for years. For such a "mythical" figure like Batman is in this continuity, kinda makes sense, and the gangs in DKR spoke in weird slang anyway, so the "txt spk" isn't that far removed from that.

Elsewhere, in the Atom mini comic (there's going to be a lot of these focusing on various characters in the "Dark Knight" Universe, the events of which run concurrently with the main story) Lara (Supes & Wonder Woman's daughter from DKSA) approached the Atom and tells him the people of Kandor are "tired of being small".

I get the feeling that although I imagine they want this more DKR than DKSA, this might end up being like the latter in reading more like some kind of Justice League tale than a mostly Batman one, which I always got from DKSA. Superman ain't going to stay frozen for long, certainly.

Andy Kubert's art is good, it's sort of going for a similar "Dark Knight-y" vibe, but he's not trying to be like Miller's art. The colours seem a little muted though, which is something I like about DKR, and why the art in DKSA is so jarring with the gaudy colouring.
[close]

I like this first one. Remains to be seen how the rest of it pans out, but could have been so much worse. Just remember Holy Terror was almost set in this world, but Miller's saying he wants to do a fourth one, and write it solo, so we're not out of the woods yet. I kinda get some of the criticism of it so far, that it comes off a little like a cover version (There's plenty of callbacks in it, right from the first bloody line), but as I say, too early to tell what this one is getting at.

Kelvin

I'm gonna keep an eye on the reviews and if they stay decent, get the trade further down the line. Will be interested to hear what you think of later issues, Spiteface.

Spiteface

I shall make that a thing.

I do have some thoughts about the latest "regular" issue of Batman... I'm gonna spoiler tag this just in case, although some of it you may have seen coming anyway.

Spoiler alert
Seems like Bruce is remembering he used to be Batman, and that some of his apparent memory loss (which is what it is after all, perhaps), is him being in denial, because he finally has a normal life after so long. Alfred still hasn't even told Bruce about all the Batman stuff, by the way.

That's the most frustrating thing about this. I love Scott Snyder's work on Batman, but that stuff he was saying about Bruce Wayne not even having the experience & skills to be Batman anymore, pretty much a pack of lies.

I did love the Scooby-Doo "Let's just see who you really are, mister" moment when Jim's got Mr Bloom in the back of the Batmobile (More like Bat-Truck, now), where he's cuffed up, and decided to unmask him, then he's interrupyed by a load of Bloom clones attacking the truck.

The end page was fucking weird and slightly unexpected... So Bruce Wayne's sitting on a bench in the park, when someone (who's face we don't see yet) approaches that bench and asks if he can sit there also. Bruce is telling him that he was in an accident nearby. The other guy's response?

"Ha. That's funny... So was I."

Then we see a man with VERY pale skin is sitting next to Bruce. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the Joker survived (Like they were ever going to kill him off!), but now he's apparently normal. See how long that lasts...
[close]

madhair60

I'm really enjoying the whole Superheavy storyline.

Kelvin

Quote from: Spiteface on December 10, 2015, 03:49:17 PM
I shall make that a thing.

I do have some thoughts about the latest "regular" issue of Batman... I'm gonna Spoiler tag this just in case, although some of it you may have seen coming anyway.

Spoiler alert
Seems like Bruce is remembering he used to be Batman, and that some of his apparent memory loss (which is what it is after all, perhaps), is him being in denial, because he finally has a normal life after so long. Alfred still hasn't even told Bruce about all the Batman stuff, by the way.

That's the most frustrating thing about this. I love Scott Snyder's work on Batman, but that stuff he was saying about Bruce Wayne not even having the experience & skills to be Batman anymore, pretty much a pack of lies.

I did love the Scooby-Doo "Let's just see who you really are, mister" moment when Jim's got Mr Bloom in the back of the Batmobile (More like Bat-Truck, now), where he's cuffed up, and decided to unmask him, then he's interrupyed by a load of Bloom clones attacking the truck.

The end page was fucking weird and slightly unexpected... So Bruce Wayne's sitting on a bench in the park, when someone (who's face we don't see yet) approaches that bench and asks if he can sit there also. Bruce is telling him that he was in an accident nearby. The other guy's response?

"Ha. That's funny... So was I."

Then we see a man with VERY pale skin is sitting next to Bruce. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the Joker survived (Like they were ever going to kill him off!), but now he's apparently normal. See how long that lasts...
[close]

I trust Snyder 100%. He's one of my favourite comic writers without a doubt, but to be honest, that really does sound like shit - at least on a story telling level. I'm sure Snyder swore blind in an interview I read on IGN that
Spoiler alert
Bruce Wayne and Joker were literally dead, not dead in a metaphorical sense. There doesn't even seem to be an attempt to reflect reality. They're just (literally) invulnerable, it seems.
[close]

Spiteface

Yeah, Snyder swore that to him,
Spoiler alert
Joker was "dead" at least for as long as he is still writing Batman. I don't think he was quite so outspoken about Bruce, who pretty much pops up at the end of the first part of "Superheavy" with the blanks filled in with subsequent issues. Once they revealed Bruce was "fixed" I supposed it wasn't impossible that the same stuff that did that to Bruce, also did the same to on Joker. It wouldn't be the first time they've had Joker become temporarily "sane" though. My guess is it'll "wear off eventually.
[close]
I know DC's being looser with continuity these days, but there's also something bring rumoured about
Spoiler alert
Geoff Johns doing a Joker story in Justice League (which I admit I'm not reading), because apparently now Batman in there (who is still Bruce Wayne, indicating that it is possibly set pre-Endgame) has New God-like powers and has found out the Joker's identity, i.e. who he was before the accident at Ace Chemicals:

Bits & bobs on that possibility here
[close]

If everything is "canon" this could be really messy.

Kelvin

I like that DC have given up on a cohesive continuity. Just tell good stories, without having to worry about whether or not a key character in the mythology is dead, or has his or her powers still. It can only lead to better, more imaginative stories and the only people that need to really care are the minority that buy most of the DC books, not just a few.

Spiteface

Right, downloaded & read the latest issue of DKIII yesterday. Spoilers below:
Spoiler alert

This one wasn't as eventful as issue 1, frankly, but maybe that was intended. A "breather" if you will. Anyway, there's an interview bit where Commissioner Yindel is trying to get Carrie to talk. What we get is some story about how Bruce Wayne's body was wrecked after fighting Lex Luthor in DKSA ( Oddly, the Dick Grayson stuff is never addressed. If you've read DKSA, you know that's a wise move.), and he just kinda gave up and never recovered, and she stayed with him for three years while he wondered of anything he did made a difference. Anyway, eventually he died. Yindel asks where the body is and Carrie teller her she "ate it"

Yindel is pretty good so far in this story. Largely just a normal woman doing her job (A bit like Jim Gordon really, who was always the "badass normal" in Batman mythos). There's a line where she talks about the people who supported what Batman did, about how they're "in bed before the tights go on", which suggests she thinks of Batman as being from a bygone era. Which still doesn't quite contradict how she views him by the end of DKR, but that might be the whole mythologising of Batman that grows throughout that book.

Anyway, Carrie makes her escape when the tank thing from DKR shows up, and confronts the cops, which turns out to be empty. So we're seeing that this Batman still isn't good with the GPD here, which makes sense as the commissioner is/was always opposed to Batman, and one that perhaps has become increasingly mental over the years.

Elsewhere, we see Ray Palmer, aka The Atom, working on restoring the people of Kandor to full size again. Lara disappears to go talk to her mother (This is the backup "Wonder Woman" mini comic with this issue). Palmer succeeds, and we see a cult of Kandorians, who were the first lot of people Palmer restores, and their leader promptly turns Atom's tech back on him, shrinks him and (possibly) kills him. So we got a wacky cult of Kryptonians on a planet with a yellow sun... this is gonna go well. The shot of these people and their leader is pretty cool, and chilling when you notice the dead bodies there. So yeah, there's our "Master Race", and I'm guessing this is what gets Superman defrosted later on.

Then we're back to Carrie Kelley and the last big reveal... yeah of course he's not bloody dead.

Overall, not as action-packed, but what you'd expect from a "Dark Knight" book, only with the bad stuff reigned in. Like I mentioned earlier, it's like they've retconned the psycho unkillable Dick Grayson stuff from DKSA out of existence, so that part of the story ends with the Bats/Lex stuff. The only essential bit that's carrying over from that book is the existence of Superman & Wonder Woman's daughter anyway. Talking of which...

Onto the backup, here we have a look at the relationwhip between Lara and her mother and the crux of it is, Lara sees herself as Kryptonian rather than an Amazon. This stuff I'm guessing is more to plant the seeds of "What side's she on?" when shit hits the fan with the Master Race later on, and presumably Superman will be back in the picture as well eventually.
[close]

Very much on board with this and where it goes next. This feels like it is starting to go somewhere by itself now, rather than retreading 1986.

Kelvin

Just from that description it sounds like a mix of the Miller books, More down to earth than TDKSA, but with lines like
Spoiler alert
"I ate him"
[close]
which, even if untrue, are pretty OTT.

Spoiler alert
I suppose one big problem I have is that Wayne really was such a total wreck by the end of SA that I find it hard to believe he could still be alive. He was having heart attacks every five minutes in that book and looked like absolute shit by the end. No way around that, though, really, unless they had done the unthinkable and had him dead for this book.
[close]

Spoiler alert
Pitting him against an army of supermen
[close]
sounds smart, when you consider the Superman through-line for the books.

Spiteface

Read issue 3 yesterday (45-minute bus journeys to work are really good for this kind of thing). Spoiler'd thoughts:

Spoiler alert
"Get up, Kansas. Wallow time is over."

What we're seeing in this, is that Bruce Wayne really did get old. He's frail and realises he just can't be Batman anymore after the events of DKSA. He's also kinda mellowed in the 3 years (Storyline) since then. The idea is what he basically saw in issue 1, that Carrie is sort-of being Batman in Bruce's stead, and we get a lot of inner monologue from bruce reflecting on this. He talks about how he thought he was scaring people be being able to take a punch and keep going, where Carrie will be smart enough to avoid even getting touched by anyone. We get a real sense that Bruce cares for her, and is genuinely proud of her as his ward. If only he didn't treat Dick Grayson like this...

Quar and the rest of the Kandorians set about taking over the world. Of course Lara's there. I get the feeling that while right now she's very much identifying as Kryptonian, her struggle with her heritage will be one of the big things in this story in the end.

...and this is where the real meat of the issue appears. Bruce & Carrie head to the Fortress of Solitude, where Superman basically just "gave up" and froze himself. Great line here. Best interaction between Batman & Superman in this universe:

"The world needs you. Saying that kills me too."

It's like Miller (Or Azzarello) has remembered that the two of them can actually be friends. World's Finest, if you will. Anyway, he's told about the Kandorians and surprisingly, is not happy.

Anyway, we get the typical villain thing of broadcasting an ultimatum to the people of earth. Classic "Surrender or die" shit, which is interrupted by Batman saying "Go to hell" to which Quar replies "What did you say", and we see another speech bubble out of shot: "You heard him" - Superman has shown up to confront them. We get some rantings from Quar about how he'd rather go to hell than spend another day in a glass cage, and Kal-El needs to be punished. The final pages have Lara facing her father and telling him he's a traitor to his race.

One thing I noticed about how Superman looks here is that the "S" changes. When he's first released, the insignia is red & black, as it was in DKSA. When he's facing down the "Master Race" at the end, it's the more iconic red & yellow. That has to be deliberate.

There's a bit of weird political commentary here and a load of talking heads (Including Donald Trump and Barack Obama, and some other ones I don't recognise), but to be honest, it doesn't really add anything here.

The Green Lantern backup is fucking weird. Basically, Hal comes back to earth, talks to a bunch of the  wives of Quar, who talk about him like he's a god. Then they cut off his hand with the ring on it.
[close]


So far, I'm quite liking this. Is it as good as Dark Knight Returns or Year One? No. Better than Dark Knight Strikes Again or All-Star Batman & Robin? To me it is, although I do get some amusement out of THE GODDAMN BATMAN.

I might post my thoughts on the goings on in the main Bat-book later on. I'm wondering what "rebirth" is going to do. Is this "Superheavy" going to end up being the end of Batman in Snyder's run so that whoever takes over on the new #1 will reboot him in some way? The New 52 reboot ended up making a lot of books come to an end so they all got endings of sorts. We shall see. Snyder's likely heading back to Detective Comics with Rebirth (which will put it back to the proper numbering, along with Action Comics), so he's not done with Batman entirely.

Kelvin

Thanks for the write up, Spiteface. I enjoy reading the book vicariously through you :)

You mentioned your favorite Batman/Superman interaction up there. I always liked the line "We are criminals, Clark". In context, it's kind of playful, hints at a warmer relationship they used to have, but also cuts through Superman's illusions about what he does. I like that whole scene actually.

I'm currently starting issue 2 of Snyder's Endgame. Pretty absurd stuff, but lot's of fun, seeing Batman take down each member of the Justice League. I also like that Snyder and Capullo have found such a stand out colourist in FCO. His work really elevates the art and it's such a departure from the colours you usually associate with Batman. Far more pinks, light blues and oranges. I get the sense that, as a result, Capullo is simplifying his own line work, to make better use of bold blocks of colour.


Glebe

Rooting around last night, feeling stressed and unable to sleep, dug out Grant Morrison and Klaus Janson's Gothic, which I'd only read once when I bought it ages ago, I think. Anyway, 'tis good stuff.

Oh yeah:

Have You Seen This Missing Batman Artwork? It Could Be Worth $5,000.


Nice. Hope it turns up safe and sound.

I hope its shat on, then burned, its horrible.

Glebe

I haven't bought a Batman graphic novel in awhile (or any graphic novel, for that matter), but I've been reading over the ones I have again... The Dark Knight Returns, The Killing Joke, Batman: Year One, Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth, The Long Halloween, Batman: Haunted Knight, Batman: Gothic, Batman: Thrillkiller, Batman Versus Bane (a collection of Bane stories), the Judge Dredd crossovers Judgement on Gotham, Vendetta in Gotham and The Ultimate Riddle, and Batman/Lobo.

While the TDKR is great stuff, I think I actually prefer Year One in some ways. Of course both that and TLH - another classic - were a major influence on Christopher Nolan's films. Alan Moore himself apparently feels that TKJ is overrated; while there might not really be that much to it, it's certainly very striking, and it's version of the Joker's origin is very clever - not to mention Brian Bolland's terrific artwork. Arkham Asylum is another fave, I love Dave McKean's abstract artiness (although apparently Grant Morrison wanted Brian Bolland to illustrate it, and actually felt that McKean's work hampered the story.). In any case, I like Morrison's Batman work, of course he's done a lot of other Batman stories (that I've not gotten round to checking out, natch.). Thrilkiller is an Elseworlds title (as is Batman/Lobo), it's set in the early '60s and cleverly done. Gorgeous art by Dan Brereton, who I'm otherwise unfamiliar with.

The Judge Dredd crossovers are great fun, I was always a big fan of Alan Grant and John Wagner's Dredd stuff anyway, and Simon Bizley and Cam Kennedy, who illustrate the first couple of books, are two of my fave 2000AD artists. There's another one featuring the Joker, Die Laughing, but I never got round to getting it. Batman/Lobo is good, gory fun.

I think I also might still have A Death in the Family - which I bought when I was around 12 - knocking around somewhere too.

Spiteface

Quote from: Glebe on April 03, 2016, 02:38:59 AMWhile the TDKR is great stuff, I think I actually prefer Year One in some ways.

Yeah, I kinda prefer it too. I think part of it is that Batman is not written at the expense of everyone else, like he can be at times (and Frank Miller himself can be guilty of, but more stuff like DKSA)

I read the finale to "Superheavy" last week - So we're right back to the status quo of Batman, with Bruce back in the cape and Jim Gordon getting his job as Commissioner back, as well as his moustache.  What's different now, is that we have the "freshest" Batman in a long time. He's someone with the experience, but none of the injuries - the dionesium that wiped his memories also healed him, meaning he's stronger and faster and pretty much the "best" version of Batman there's ever been.

There was a nice panel that homages older suit designs, with blue cowls, oval bat symbols etc, even what looked like a prototype of the Beyond suit which was cool. I like the tweaks to the current suit that will be the one going into rebirth. If they're set against the main Batman having the yellow oval, then a yellow outline around the symbol is a good compromise:



Superheavy has been pretty bonkers and all the mecha Batsuits smashing Gotham up was pretty nuts, including one of them fighting a giant Mr Bloom. Probably something more at home in Pacific Rim or any number of Giant Robot anime, but I dug it.

Although this was on the outside, a story about someone else becoming Batman, the heart of it still was Bruce Wayne, a trick that was pulled off rather well, going into just what Bruce gives up so he can do what he does.

Looks like we have a new Robin as well, in the form of Duke Thomas. At least that's what it looks like when Bruce approaches him with an offer. If that's the case, where does that leave Damian Wayne if he ever comes back to Gotham?

Next month is, I gather, going to be an epilogue of sorts, as the end to Scott Snyder & Greg Capullo's run on the main book. Capullo's doing something else, Snyder's actually still doing Batman post-rebirth, in the form of "All-Star Batman" (Which is absolutely nothing to do with Frank Miller's GODDAMN BATMAN, different book), which will crack off with a Two-Face story. Hopefully it's better than the last New 52 thing I saw with him in (The Batman &... book, which revised his origin and had Carrie Kelley in it, only for her to disappear with no explanation)

Custard

Dunno if I've posted this before, but it saves me repeating myself with a new post here. Here's a blog post I wrote a few years back about my favourite Batman stories (up to that point!) - http://tinyurl.com/j8uto87

Currently really enjoying Scott Snyder's run. Endgame is great stuff

Spiteface

I read the last Snyder/Capullo Batman last week, as well as the latest DKIII (which itself got delayed for some reason). Not got round to doing my write-up here, which I rather like doing now, so here goes:

Batman #51

This one's long and rambling, but I'm spoiler-tagging it.
Spoiler alert
This one is all epilogue, not just to Superheavy, but to the entire "New 52" run of Batman by Snyder & Capullo. It checks in with all the various elements of Snyder's run. If you've read any of his run, you'll see something of it referenced here. It's the story of a quiet night in Gotham, with commentary told through the "Gotham is..." newspaper column. It's people talking about what Gotham means to them, how they feel about Batman, what they think Batman feels about them and the city. Everything is back to normal after the events of Superheavy. Jim Gordon is Commissioner again, the "real" Batman is back and better than ever, and is out and about. There's some kind of tremor happening which knocks out the power in the city, and of course the first place Batman goes is Arkham, but everything is fine, everyone's contained. Which is Batman in nutshell in some ways. There are things that make him suspicious, but every time it's like a bait-and-switch. We even check in with the Joker, who is still the "normal" person he was during Superheavy. It hints that he's somewhat aware of who he is/was, but simply says "not tonight", like he's on the brink of going back to being The Joker again, but is keeping it at bay for now. Apparently this blank slate form of Joker is going to appear in Geoff Johns' plans for the character. I'm guessing this will be the whole thing about his real identity, which I'm still not sure how I feel about that and giving him a definite background.

Alfred in this... people disliked his behaviour in Superheavy but I can relate to him, right from the moment he was telling Clark Kent to leave him alone, to not remind Bruce he was ever Batman. Then when Bruce remembers again and tries to stop him from doing it again. Bruce is like a son to him and he saw the memory loss as Gotham's weird way of giving Bruce Wayne back to the world, free of the weight of Batman. You can see how sad he is, looking at the newly-healed Batman with no scars in this last issue, just knowing it will lead to more tragedy in the end. I like how traumatised he was after Endgame that he still can't say the Joker's name when he's talking to Bruce about his reattached hand. There's things he says, where he just wishes Bruce didn't have to do this

There are days I want to fight him for you, Bruce. Fight Batman myself.

I don't know if it was intentional, but I get shades of Dark Knight Rises from Alfred of late, the extent to which he isn't okay with Batman.

Anyway, it's pretty clear that nothing is happening, No one caused the quake, it was just a natural thing, Alfred tells him the power's due to come back. Batman's last words in this issue?

Understood. Sill watching. Just in case.


That is pure Batman right there. Snyder signs off with this line:

Gotham... is you. Always

which just adds to this issue being one giant love letter to Batman, Gotham and the people who have been reading over the last 4 1/2 years. I know I've enjoyed the ride. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with the new creative team, and I like that Snyder has set the stage wonderfully for a new beginning post-rebirth.
[close]

I'll do a DKIII #4 write-up soon, I think.

Kelvin

Interesting stuff, Spiteface. Look forward to reading it. Re: Joker's
Spoiler alert
origin. They've done that three times in new 52, now. First with Red Hood in Zero Year, then with the implication he might have been (but probably isn't) the pale man, now this Geoff Johns thing. I actually much prefer the Zero Year origin to the pre-52 origin established in Killing Joke. I never bought into a normal man snapping like that, I prefer the idea that he's the extreme, more unhinged version of a nihlistic crime boss.
[close]

Spiteface

Quote from: Kelvin on May 02, 2016, 02:47:59 PM
Interesting stuff, Spiteface. Look forward to reading it. Re: Joker's
Spoiler alert
origin. They've done that three times in new 52, now. First with Red Hood in Zero Year, then with the implication he might have been (but probably isn't) the pale man, now this Geoff Johns thing. I actually much prefer the Zero Year origin to the pre-52 origin established in Killing Joke. I never bought into a normal man snapping like that, I prefer the idea that he's the extreme, more unhinged version of a nihlistic crime boss.
[close]

I always interpreted the
Spoiler alert
Killing Joke one as Joker justifying what he does to make the weird "One Bad Day" point he's trying to make, and I always felt that was an unreliable story anyway. Joker himself states he remembers it more than one way anyway.

The "Pale Man" thing, likely just Joker messing with everyone.

Although Red Hood One isn't seen emerging from the chemical vat during Zero Year, I can buy into him as a former crime boss gone even more mental. Plus, I feel the symbolism of Jason Todd using Red Hood as his post-resurrection alias is lost if the first Red Hood wasn't Joker. Plus, the Red Hood/Joker connection's been made elsewhere in the New 52, like in Death of the Family. Pretty sure he makes Harley wear that helmet at one point to stand in for him during that story.

I don't read current DC aside from Batman, but I'll be interested to see what Johns does with Joker's alleged real identity soon, and whether it sticks. I doubt it will.
[close]

madhair60

I'm gonna just pop in and state how much I've enjoyed Snyder's run overall. Really great imo, especially Zero Year.

Dr Rock

So who is/was The Joker, and why didn't Batman believe it was possible?
Spoiler alert
Some old crime boss?
[close]

Spiteface

I'm guessing we'll find out, soon.

Anyway, didn't know where else to put these links, but it was stuff I really liked, so here you go:

A bunch of Greg Capullo's Batman covers, redrawn Bruce Timm-style

Theory: Frank Miller's recent work is good, but it isn't getting the right colour treatment

I quite like this one:



The top one makes it look a bit more like classic Miller Dark Knight. Just goes to show what a colourist does. Incidentally, this was something talked about in the chatroom during CaB Radio on Sunday night, but the colouring in the later stuff on Capullo's art is really cool. Very reminiscent of the Killing Joke before Bolland recoloured it. In parts it seems like Capullo deliberately keeps his art simple to accomodate it. The look is something I'm going to miss as much as Snyder's writing.

Spiteface

Quote from: Dr Rock on May 02, 2016, 07:56:57 PM
So who is/was The Joker, and why didn't Batman believe it was possible?
Spoiler alert
Some old crime boss?
[close]

I have just read  issue 1 of Rebirth.  What Batman found out over in the Justice League title was
Spoiler alert
there are three Jokers in existance. I am not making this up. There's the really old-school Joker as he appears in Batman #1, there's the Killing Joke version of Joker, and the New 52 Joker a la Snyder/Capullo. He's not the only one that has more than one version of him either. The main focus of the story is the pre-Flashpoint Wally West/Kid Flash, but the New 52 version is still a thing and is explained.I'm guessing once everything is straightened out, a lot of these characters will be merged or certain version will be killed off (Superman seems to be a case of this - New 52 Supes is dead and pre-Flashpoint Clark is being set up to become the main Superman of the DCU again.
[close]

One thing is clear about Rebirth - it's not another reboot, nor is everything magically back to the pre-Flashpoint universe. Things from that time are being brought back, but the key to Rebirth is that the "New 52" world is becoming aware that something is wrong with their world and things aren't what they were or should be. They've finally brought back up the letter that Bruce has from his father, that Flash gave him at the end of Flashpoint. I'm surprised this hasn't happened sooner. If Batman is kind of aware of what Flash did back then, wouldn't he have done a bit of digging? This is all a fuck of a lot more interesting than Captain America being a Nazi or something.

Also,
Spoiler alert
Watchmen now part of the main DCU. That smiley badge thing is found in the Batcave Not sure what that means. I really should read Watchmen some day. One of those "seminal" books that's on my list of shit to get round to, but I haven't yet.
[close]

Mister Six

Watchmen is legitimately excellent. Best get on it sooner rather than later, before all of the good stuff is lazily reheated by hacks and stirred in with fifth-rate plots about Martian Manhunter or whoever.

Mister Six

Quote from: Spiteface on May 03, 2016, 11:33:09 AM
Theory: Frank Miller's recent work is good, but it isn't getting the right colour treatment

Reminds me of the later issues of Preacher, after Dillon had adopted his minimalist/lazy style with less-to-no crosshatching. Colourists were constantly trying to add contours or highlights to people's faces, even though there was so little to work with (and the tech back then more primitive) that it just looked tacky and amateurish.

Flat colours or simple gradients were the way to go, but they seemed not to be able to figure that out, even though it was their job.

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: Spiteface on May 27, 2016, 03:08:21 PM
I have just read  issue 1 of Rebirth.  What Batman found out over in the Justice League title was
Spoiler alert
there are three Jokers in existance. I am not making this up. There's the really old-school Joker as he appears in Batman #1, there's the Killing Joke version of Joker, and the New 52 Joker a la Snyder/Capullo. He's not the only one that has more than one version of him either. The main focus of the story is the pre-Flashpoint Wally West/Kid Flash, but the New 52 version is still a thing and is explained.I'm guessing once everything is straightened out, a lot of these characters will be merged or certain version will be killed off (Superman seems to be a case of this - New 52 Supes is dead and pre-Flashpoint Clark is being set up to become the main Superman of the DCU again.
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One thing is clear about Rebirth - it's not another reboot, nor is everything magically back to the pre-Flashpoint universe. Things from that time are being brought back, but the key to Rebirth is that the "New 52" world is becoming aware that something is wrong with their world and things aren't what they were or should be. They've finally brought back up the letter that Bruce has from his father, that Flash gave him at the end of Flashpoint. I'm surprised this hasn't happened sooner. If Batman is kind of aware of what Flash did back then, wouldn't he have done a bit of digging? This is all a fuck of a lot more interesting than Captain America being a Nazi or something.

Also,
Spoiler alert
Watchmen now part of the main DCU. That smiley badge thing is found in the Batcave Not sure what that means. I really should read Watchmen some day. One of those "seminal" books that's on my list of shit to get round to, but I haven't yet.
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I read Rebirth today and was enjoying it until the twist ending, which is all kinds of rubbish. I've only read a couple of new 52 titles (Animal Man, Swamp Thing, some of Bats) but I'm glad it's being addressed as to how much of a bad idea it was, indeed I'm surprised that Johns got away with such an attack. But it seems like he's also trying to blame the whole thing (along with grim/dark superheroes in general)
Spoiler alert
on Watchmen
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, which is fairly idiotic. Still, it was an entertaining read at least (and lovely to see Wally again, too) and Ted Kord's alive in this universe, which I wasn't aware of until now, so it's not all bad I guess.

Glebe

I don't keep up with these new-fangled Batman stories, but I stumbled upon this:

POTENTIALLY SPOILERISH theory about Joker's true identity.

Hmmm, bloomin' heck,
Spoiler alert
Alan Moore must be bloody furious about the Watchmen stuff
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.


madhair60

Anycunt been reading Batman Rebirth or any other Rebirth books? I'm really impressed with it. Morrison to Snyder to King, Batman has been an embarrassment of riches.

Straight Faced Customer

Oh yes, addicted to the current King run, and Detective Comics is really tightly run too. Probably the first time I've regularly bought new trades as soon as they come out. With Snyder during the New 52 years, it felt like he was treading water sometimes with the Zero Year/Joker's Lost His Face(!) arcs. Even Morrison dipped in and out of quality. King, though - what a writer. I keep going back to books like I Am Suicide and each time it's a thrill of a read. He knows how to tell a sharp story whilst incorporating enough obscure side-characters and offbeat moments. He doesn't let any lofty, poetic ideals get in the way of things either.

The current Detective Comics run by Tynion is the first I've bothered to follow since Snyder held the rein during the Black Mirror era. I knew little about Spoiler, Orphan etc beforehand, but Tynion's really good at balancing and fleshing out a regular cast of characters without anybody getting left out. Until they, err, die or go off the rails, as seems to be the current pattern with that series.

madhair60

Yes, I'm reading 'Tec 'Mics as well and while I don't like it as much as the flagship King run it's still very enjoyable. I've only read vols 1 and 2 of it though. Vol 5 of Batman is in the post.