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Batman (comics) questions/discussion

Started by madhair60, July 22, 2015, 10:04:25 AM

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madhair60

Does anyone know which volumes I need to buy to get the whole of Dark Nights: Metal including relevant tie ins?

Spiteface

In terms of collected editions:

Dark Days The Road To Metal is the stuff serving as a prologue to the main story playing out in Dark Nights: Metal.

There was a tie-in story running across various titles called Dark Nights Metal: The Resistance which essentially takes place around the same time as the main story.

The One Shots (i.e. the origins for each of the "dark" versions of Batman and a one-shot by Grant Morrison) are in a book called Metal: Dark Knights Rising.

I had to look up the names of these titles, as I actually read it all as it was ongoing. I was well into Scott Snyder and Gregg Capullo's New 52 Batman stuff, so I was already on board for it.

madhair60

Cheers. I love Snyder/Capullo's run too, hence my interest. I might ignore Road To as it seems to be stuff I've already read. I actually picked up the last three volumes of Snyder's run recently, looking forward to reading them.

The Roofdog

I'd be interested in what you think of the end of that run. It's so different in tone from the Court of Owls stuff that kicked it off, I struggled with it TBH.

Mister Six

Similarly, I want to read Grant Morrison's Batman stories (including Batman, Inc and Death of Bruce Wayne) from beginning to end. Any idea what the trades I should be looking for are, in order?

magval

Yes.

First off, are you reading paper or digital?

Second, you want fancy, lovely, heavy editions, or cheapest possible option?

I got answers for all options.

Kelvin

Funnily enough, I think Morrison and Snyder's wonderful runs both have the same problem with how they finish; far, far too many points where you think they're about to resolve, but then don't. They should both have been shortened by at least 3-4 issues off the end of their final arcs.

Quote from: Mister Six on January 05, 2019, 07:22:06 PM
Similarly, I want to read Grant Morrison's Batman stories (including Batman, Inc and Death of Bruce Wayne) from beginning to end. Any idea what the trades I should be looking for are, in order?

Yes. Although it's confusing, because some of the stories in the middle overlap, and the Return of Bruce Wayne story basically leads into the third Batman and Robin trade.

The order is...

*Goes away to photograph his trades, as a reference*

Batman and Son
Batman RIP
The "Final Crisis" event (which is mostly awful, but features a major event that shapes the Batman series moving forward. If you want to skip it, I'll tell you the cliff notes)
Batman: Time and the Batman (which is basically a story flashing through everything in his run up until this point, and can easily be skipped, but might be preferable to reading Final Crisis)
Batman and Robin: Batman Reborn
Batman and Robin: Batman vs Robin
The Return of Bruce Wayne
Batman and Robin: Batman and Robin Must Die
Batman Incorporated
At this point, DC rebooted with the New 52, so the continuity moving forward is slightly different, but mostly unaffected for Morrison's run, which effectively carries on in it's own little bubble
Batman Incorporated: Demon Star
Batman Incorporated: Gotham's Most Wanted

Two additional notes: There's a series of books (Battle For The Cowl) set between Final Crisis and Batman and Robin: Batman Reborn where the heroes fight over who will take over from Batman while he's away, but it's not written by Morrison, and, outside of who eventually becomes Batman, doesn't lead into anything Morrison went on to write, apparently. I never read it, though.

Secondly, if you're going to read this entire run, make sure you read the trade of Scott Snyder's "The Black Mirror", which is absolutely superb, maybe his best work, and set during the Batman and Robin period, from the POV of Dick Grayson. Probably fits best between Batman and Robin: Batman Reborn and Batman and Robin: Batman vs Robin. A very, very strong recommendation, and frankly better than anything Morrison wrote in his run after Batman and Robin.

The Roofdog

Yeah Black Mirror (not that one) is great. I agree with you about Morrison's run too, he should've wrapped it up in time for the New 52.

Phil_A

There's also The Black Casebook collection, which is a compilation of all the Silver Age stories that directly link to Batman RIP.  A useful primer for some of the weirder references.

Mister Six

Thanks all. I'll get these ordered at the local library.

Kelvin


Mister Six

Already re-read it in August and loved it even more the second time around.

Kelvin

Quote from: Mister Six on January 06, 2019, 03:51:17 PM
Already re-read it in August and loved it even more the second time around.

Wow, fair enough. I'm actually wondering if I've misremembered my experience of it. I certainly found it disjointed (which was the intent, in fairness), but I'm not sure if I actively disliked it or not. I certainly thought the ending was rushed. Maybe I should reread it to refresh my memory.

Mister Six

The last chapter is deliberately disjointed, but it worked for me. I'm a sucker for a lot of Morrison's stuff, though, especially the meta business involving the creation of the Monitors/DC universe.

Kelvin

His run on Batman is great, precisely for that reason. Have you read his Justice League stuff? It's very superficial, but just overflowing with cool ideas. I've said it before on here, but he really reminds me of Steven Moffat in that and several other ways.

Mister Six

Read his JLA stuff back in the day. Haven't revisited it since, but I recall it being good but marred by lots of annoying editorial-mandated DC crossovers.

Kelvin

Quote from: Mister Six on January 06, 2019, 04:17:52 PM
Read his JLA stuff back in the day. Haven't revisited it since, but I recall it being good but marred by lots of annoying editorial-mandated DC crossovers.

I don't remember lots of crossovers, but the stuff with Superman becoming a blue, even more powerful version of himself is a bit crap.

Dannyhood91

Has The Long Halloween and it's sequel book, Dark Victory been mentioned? They're great detective stories with a lot of atmosphere and intrigue. 

Glebe

Quote from: Dannyhood91 on January 07, 2019, 10:03:31 AMHas The Long Halloween and it's sequel book, Dark Victory been mentioned? They're great detective stories with a lot of atmosphere and intrigue.

Dark Victory's on my must-have list, though I've not picked it up yet.

Phil_A

Quote from: Dannyhood91 on January 07, 2019, 10:03:31 AM
Has The Long Halloween and it's sequel book, Dark Victory been mentioned? They're great detective stories with a lot of atmosphere and intrigue.

They do unfortunately suffer from the common Jeph Loeb problem of not being wrap up a long ongoing story in a coherent way ever. See also: Hush.

Mister Six

Quote from: Kelvin on January 06, 2019, 04:19:45 PM
I don't remember lots of crossovers, but the stuff with Superman becoming a blue, even more powerful version of himself is a bit crap.

That's what I meant, really. Not so much crossovers themselves but the fallout from them. Characters suddenly being dead or missing between arcs or even issues because of some shit, long-forgotten story hacked out to meet editor-mandated plot points.

madhair60

So, Tom King's run is coming to an end. What have people made of that?

I've enjoyed it a lot, but there were some lows. He seems extremely full of himself but in a way that actually works for me, and the art has been uniformly stunning.

I'm ready for Tynion IV though, I think he's going to kill it.

magval

Did you see that he's going to continue with a Batman/Catwoman series outside the main title? I wonder will this account for the remaining 15 issues of the 100 he'd planned for.

Small Man Big Horse

I've very mixed feelings, I like King a lot as a writer and he's got me reading the series again for the first time in years so must be doing something right, but some parts have been tedious, the dream torture six(?) parter recently was a real struggle. He does write Bruce and Selina effectively though...

Quote from: magval on September 25, 2019, 05:54:32 PM
Did you see that he's going to continue with a Batman/Catwoman series outside the main title? I wonder will this account for the remaining 15 issues of the 100 he'd planned for.

...So the above pleases, as long as he keeps them as a couple at least and doesn't split them up again.

Last week I read White Knight, a 'what if' story outside of the continuity, if Batman can be said to have a real continuity. It's about Joker taking a drug which turns him sane. With a clean bill of health, he is released back into society where he becomes a Gotham politician and uses his platform to criticise Batman.

It is, of course, completely ridiculous. The idea that the people of Gotham would rally behind their friendly local mass-murderer is patently stupid. To make it work, the writer twists the characters to fit the plot. Therefore Batman is a much more reckless, destructive arsehole than usual - a contrivance which almost makes it seem like the Joker might have a point. Batman's volatile behaviour is down to the fact that Alfred is suffering from a terminal illness. In an effort to make the Joker more sympathetic, the story leans heavily into his relationship with Harley Quinn. There are two versions of Harley here, the classic 'jester' Harley and the New-52 one, split into separate characters. Jester Harley loves sane Joker, while 52 Harley loves insane Joker and wants to return him to his madness. Fun ensues.

It's a good read if you can get over the initial hurdle of its implausible premise. The artwork is very nice too.

madhair60

Yes, I bought that on the strength of recommendations and I have found that initial hurdle a little tiresome. The art is astonishing, though.

I've still got Gates of Gotham, Dark Nights: Metal and a handful of other trades to read that i didn't get round to yet.

Glebe

I just posted dis in deh main comics thread:

QuoteRead Catwoman: When in Rome. It's alright, I wish it had just been about Catwoman and not throw the Riddler, etc. in.

Mister Six

Quote from: Default to the negative on September 27, 2019, 11:40:08 AM
To make it work, the writer twists the characters to fit the plot. Therefore Batman is a much more reckless, destructive arsehole than usual - a contrivance which almost makes it seem like the Joker might have a point. Batman's volatile behaviour is down to the fact that Alfred is suffering from a terminal illness.

I had the same qualms, to the point that I wondered if I had written this post and my avatar was broken. Sadly, I could get past that element of things - what's the point of doing this story if you have to make Batman and The Joker into different characters to make it work?

Small Man Big Horse

I just watched the musical episode of Batman Brave and The Bold and it's fucking superb, admittedly I do love musicals but the songs are catchy, funny and playful and it's just hugely enjoyable stuff - if you don't believe me someone's posted it in full on Dailymotion so you can see for yourselves: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2rjfrk

Spiteface

For a minute I thought you meant the one with that Birds of Prey song in it.