Author Topic: Batman (comics) questions/discussion  (Read 7778 times)

MojoJojo

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Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2015, 07:59:48 PM »
Just to note that this thread inspired me to check - and the 90s cartoon is available under Amazon Prime Instant Video.

I liked it the nineties, watching some this evening to see if it holds up.

kidsick5000

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Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2015, 08:27:06 PM »
I also enjoyed Batman'66 - the comic based on the Adam West series.

Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2015, 08:32:22 PM »
Kelvin and Revelator, thanks for all that!

Kelvin: Is that Scott Snyder Batman/Robin story in one of these trades?

One

Two

Three

If not, which is it?

Edit: I think I found it!

Revelator

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Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2015, 08:33:28 PM »
I liked it the nineties, watching some this evening to see if it holds up.

Batman: the Animated Series mostly holds up very well, but keep in mind that it had a rough start. Its first story editor was a hack who wanted the episodes to have morals and lessons for kids, and some of the early episodes are clumsy attempts at social relevance that feature obnoxious child characters. The producers--Bruce Timm and Eric Radomski--clashed with and got rid of the story editor, who was replaced by the excellent Alan Burnett, who also wrote the two-parter that introduced Two Face.

Allow me to provide a suggested viewing guide. Episodes marked with "--" are best skipped. "*" is a mediocre episode. "**" is mediocre but with redeeming elements or important characters. "***" is simply good and worth watching. "****" is a classic.

1. The Cat and the Claw Part I *
2. The Cat and the Claw Part II *
3. On Leather Wings ****
4. Heart of Ice ****
5. Feat of Clay Part I **
6. Feat of Clay Part II ***
7. It's Never Too Late **
8. Joker's Favor ****
9. Pretty Poison ***
10. Nothing To Fear **
11. Be A Clown --
12. Appointment In Crime Alley **
13. P.O.V. **
14. The Clock King ***
15. The Last Laugh *
16. Eternal Youth *
17. Two-Face Part I ****
18. Two-Face Part II ****
19. Fear Of Victory ***
20. I've Got Batman In My Basement --
21. Vendetta **
22. Prophecy Of Doom --
23. The Forgotten **
24. Mad As A Hatter ****
25. The Cape & Cowl Conspiracy **
26. Perchance To Dream ****
27. The Underdwellers --
28. Night of the Ninja ***
29. The Strange Secret Of Bruce Wayne **
30. Tyger, Tyger *
31. Dreams In Darkness ***
32. Beware The Gray Ghost ****
33. Cat Scratch Fever --
34. I Am The Night ***
35. Almost Got 'Im ****
36. Moon Of The Wolf --
37. Terror In The Sky *
38. Christmas With The Joker *
39. Heart of Steel Part I **
40. Heart of Steel Part II **
41. If You're So Smart, Why Aren't You Rich? **
42. Joker's Wild ***
43. His Silicon Soul **
44. Off Balance **
45. What is Reality? ***
46. The Laughing Fish ****
47. Harley and Ivy ****
48. The Mechanic *
49. The Man Who Killed Batman ****
50. Zatanna ***
51. Robin's Reckoning Part I ****
52. Robin's Reckoning Part II ***
53. Birds Of A Feather ***
54. Blind As A Bat *
55. Day of the Samurai **
56. See No Evil ***
57. The Demon's Quest Part I ***
58. The Demon's Quest Part II ***
59. Read My Lips ****
60. Fire from Olympus ***
61. Shadow of the Bat (Part 1) **
62. Shadow of the Bat (Part 2) **
63. Mudslide ***
64. The Worry Men ***
65. Paging the Crime Doctor **
66. House and Garden ****
67. Sideshow ***
68. Avatar **
69. Trial ****
70. Harlequinade ****
71. Bane **
72. Second Chance ****
73. Riddler's Reform ***
74. Baby Doll ****
75. Time Out of Joint **
76. Harley's Holiday ***
77. Make 'Em Laugh *
78. Batgirl Returns ***
79. Lock-Up **
80. Deep Freeze ***
81. The Terrible Trio --
82. Showdown ***
83. Catwalk ***
84. A Bullet for Bullock ***
85. The Lion and the Unicorn *

There are several direct-to-video films from the animated series:
Mask of the Phantasm ****
Batman & Mr. Freeze: SubZero **
Mystery of the Batwoman *

The last episodes of BTAS aired under the title The New Batman Adventures and featured a more stylized art style:
86. Holiday Knights ***
87. Cold Comfort **
88. Sins of the Father **
89. Never Fear ***
90. You Scratch My Back ***
91. Double Talk **
92. Joker's Millions *
93. Growing Pains ****
94. Love Is a Croc *
95. Torch Song *
96. The Ultimate Thrill ***
97. Over the Edge ****
98. Mean Seasons ***
99. The Demon Within  ***
100. The Ultimate Thrill ***
101. Cult of the Cat *
102. Critters ***
103. Animal Act ***
104. Old Wounds ****
105. Legends of The Dark Knight ****
106. Girls Night Out *
107. Chemistry ***
108. Judgement Day **
109. Beware The Creeper *
110. Mad Love ****

Batman also guest-starred in Superman: the Animated Series--the episodes where they first met have been released on DVD as The Batman/Superman Movie (****). Lastly, the flashback sequence of the direct-to-video Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker are essential viewing. Make sure to watch the unedited version (the one that doesn't involve electrocution).

Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2015, 08:36:26 PM »
Yeah, The Animated Series is still good.  So good that loads of elements from it were "borrowed" for the other Bat-things.

I would disagree that Sub-Zero is only worth two stars but if we got into that I'd be here arguing the toss all day!

Revelator

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Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2015, 08:43:40 PM »
I would disagree that Sub-Zero is only worth two stars but if we got into that I'd be here arguing the toss all day!

That was a tough call, and perhaps after a rewatch I'd give three stars. I thought the first Mr. Freeze episode was perfect, and all his other appearances were subject to diminishing returns. I don't think the BTAS version of the character was built to be a recurring villain.

Kelvin

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Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2015, 08:57:09 PM »
Kelvin and Revelator, thanks for all that!

Kelvin: Is that Scott Snyder Batman/Robin story in one of these trades?

One

Two

Three

If not, which is it?

Edit: I think I found it!

As you realised, the Snyder "Dick Grayson as Batman" stuff is collected in a seperate Trade and yes,  this is the one:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1401232078/cab-21/

I was always ambivalent towards Dick Grayson before reading that. Now he's one of my favourite DC characters.

Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2015, 10:20:31 PM »
I also enjoyed Batman'66 - the comic based on the Adam West series.

I really should check that out, apparently they've just introduced a version of Harley Quinn in there and are going to have a 60's version of Bane in there, as a luchador:


Kelvin

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Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2015, 01:36:24 AM »
I think I've recommended this to Madhair in another thread, but Scott Snyder's Zero Year arc is also extremely good, and would probably appeal to fans of the lighter, less brooding Batman. In Zero Year, Bruce is a troubled young man, yes, but one whose retained his sense of humour and actually enjoys being Batman.

It's also a beautiful, beautiful comic, with some of the best colouring work I've ever seen. In direct contrast to the greys and blacks you'd associate with modern Batman artwork, Zero Year is full of bright greens, yellows, oranges, sky blues and pinks.





I know many people are put off by the fact it's supposed to be another orgin story, but in reality, the arc is split into three separate stories, only loosely connected. The first is the only one that could be described as a Batman "origin" story, with the second and third storylines really being "the early adventures of Batman".

I really recommend it to anyone tired of the traditional "grumpy Batman fights goons in dark alleys" type of story. Plus, it contains a scene where Batman wins a fist fight with a lion.   

Mister Six

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Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2015, 02:51:47 AM »
Oh, Kelvin - what you need to know about Final Crisis, if you're going to skip it:

[spoiler]Prior to the series, a group of evil gods known as The New Gods, led by the tyrannical Darkseid, have quietly taken over the universe, leading it to become despoiled and corrupted.

Batman (who had faked his death to go off the radar) and the other superheroes get caught up in fighting them after one of the good New Gods is found to have been shot dead with a god-killing bullet in an alley.

Darkseid becomes a bit obsessed with Batman and tries to clone him, but the clones are all damaged or deranged.

At the end of the series, Batman gets hold of the bullet used to kill the good New God in the first issue and shoots Darkseid with it, killing him (there's a little speech about how Batman swore never to use guns, but since this is his opportunity to kill the physical embodiment of everything he hates about the universe, he'll make an exception). As he dies, Darkseid blasts Batman with some kind of space-ray, apparently reducing him to a withered skeleton.[/spoiler]

I don't think anything else from Final Crisis crops up in the Batman comics.

Oh - and while we're on good Batman comics, Gotham Central is absolutely superb. It's basically a police procedural like TV's Homicide, but following the police who have to put up with supervillain bullshit inbetween more mundane crimes. If you're a fan of procedurals, you should definitely give it a crack. I think it's been collected in four or so bumper volumes.

Kelvin

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Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2015, 03:13:00 AM »
Oh, Kelvin - what you need to know about Final Crisis, if you're going to skip it:

Sorry, I didn't make it very clear. I read Final Crisis, along with every book of the Morrison era. Loved most of it, with the exception of the initial Son of Batman storyline and the final part of Batman Inc. and  I even quite liked Final Crisis, bearing in mind what I had heard Morrison say about it being like changing channels and coming in at different points in numerous shows, missing out the boring parts. I just don't think it's something I'd recommend to someone who wasn't hardcore into their DC characters or was looking for accessible Batman stories. It does contain some of my favourite Darkseid dialogue, though:



Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2015, 09:03:16 PM »
I think I've recommended this to Madhair in another thread, but Scott Snyder's Zero Year arc is also extremely good, and would probably appeal to fans of the lighter, less brooding Batman. In Zero Year, Bruce is a troubled young man, yes, but one whose retained his sense of humour and actually enjoys being Batman.

It's also a beautiful, beautiful comic, with some of the best colouring work I've ever seen. In direct contrast to the greys and blacks you'd associate with modern Batman artwork, Zero Year is full of bright greens, yellows, oranges, sky blues and pinks.


I know many people are put off by the fact it's supposed to be another orgin story, but in reality, the arc is split into three separate stories, only loosely connected. The first is the only one that could be described as a Batman "origin" story, with the second and third storylines really being "the early adventures of Batman".

I really recommend it to anyone tired of the traditional "grumpy Batman fights goons in dark alleys" type of story. Plus, it contains a scene where Batman wins a fist fight with a lion.   

I like Zero Year as a whole. A "New 52" Batman origin became a necessity really, as certain elements retained in the new timeline contradicted things popping up there (James Gordon Jr mainly). Plus, it was something Snyder had talked about wanting to do, and it's his big "Riddler" story. I think it's pretty cool that Riddler got used as his "first" supervillain, rather than The Joker.

I like the colouring in it, too. It's reminiscent the earlier pressings of The Killing Joke, before Brian Bolland went back and recoloured it. Lends it all a different look to Court of Owls or Death of the Family. Capullo has generally been great though on the main Batman title regardless of who is colouring.

Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2015, 09:14:21 PM »
Erm, I thought Zero Year came after Death of the Family?  Which was a Joker story?

Probably wrong.

Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #43 on: July 29, 2015, 09:20:50 PM »
Erm, I thought Zero Year came after Death of the Family?  Which was a Joker story?

Probably wrong.

It's confusing.

A Death IN the Family was the 80's story in which Joker kills Robin #2, Jason Todd.

Death OF The Family is Joker returning to Gotham after a year without a face [nb]In Detective Comics #1 he has the Dollmaker cut it off while he's in his cell at the GCPD, and leaves it there for a year before strapping it back on like a mask[/nb] and basically trying to tear apart the "Bat-family" by breaking their trust in him, while at the same time trying to "prove" to Batman that Joker's been his best friend the entire time. The next "big" story Snyder did after that, was Zero Year (with a two-part Clayface story in between, also dealing with Bruce grief over Damian), winding the clock back 6 years to tell the "New 52" origin of Batman, as well Bruce's first encounters with some of his future rogues gallery.

Yes, the two are very similarly-named.

Revelator

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Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2015, 01:56:19 AM »
Yes, the two are very similarly-named.

And neither are worth reading.

Kelvin

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Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2015, 02:11:22 AM »
And neither are worth reading.

I totally disagree. Death OF The Family is brilliant. It's biggest stumbling block is the unnecessary stuff with Joker's face[nb]although even that results in some imaginative imagery[/nb], but the core story and ideas are excellent and as an in-depth exploration of the Joker's relationship with Batman, it's probably second only to The Killing Joke. The artwork and set-pieces are wonderful and while Snyder has never excelled at dialogue, his writing is always layered and intelligent. I'd recommend it to absolutely anyone, with the caveat that the stuff with Joker's face was misjudged.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 03:41:58 AM by Kelvin »

Revelator

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Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2015, 04:34:12 AM »
I totally disagree. Death OF The Family is brilliant.

It's certainly a brilliant con. I was astounded at how thoroughly it was overhyped.

Quote
It's biggest stumbling block is the unnecessary stuff with Joker's face

That is the least of its problems--far more despicable were the Saw-reject set-pieces and the cop-out ending. But you are absolutely right to say Snyder "has never excelled at dialogue"--I kept screaming for the Joker to shut up and stop explaining himself, since his motivations for getting rid of the Bat-family were so unconvincing. In the end it felt extravagantly pointless. If the point was to estrange the Bat-family, the story should have focused more on them; if it was to shine new light on the Joker, none was shone--Frank Miller already explored the idea of Joker in love with Batman in Dark Knight Returns.

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his writing is always layered and intelligent. I'd recommend it to absolutely anyone

I'm not going to slam Snyder's other writing, but as far as Death of the Family is concerned, Snyder is intelligent in being derivative. Someone looking for a good Joker story is better off reading The Killing Joke, DKR, The Greatest Joker Stories Ever Told compilations, Mad Love, and practically any other Joker comic before picking up Death of the Family, which exemplifies the sort of comics DC now excels in: bloated, portentous storylines that announce themselves as game-changers and yet have nothing new to offer when it comes to ideas or characterization. It's certainly more intelligent than A Death in the Family, but just as meretricious.

Kelvin

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Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2015, 07:24:21 AM »
That is the least of its problems--far more despicable were the Saw-reject set-pieces

I can't think of anything that could match that description apart from the [Spoiler]dinner table sequence[/Spoiler] at the end. None of the other set pieces have the slightest resemblance to "Saw" style torture porn, and even that one has a thematic point behind it.

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And the cop-out ending.

Maybe it felt like a cop-out at the time, as people were led to believe [Spoiler]someone was going to die[/Spoiler]. But taken on it's own terms, without the surrounding hype, the ending is entirely in keeping with the lead up and had repercussions on the bat-family. I'd happily argue that other writers failed to capitilise on the threads it set up, but as a story about distrust, it's the perfect ending.

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In the end it felt extravagantly pointless. If the point was to estrange the Bat-family, the story should have focused more on them

The story is about several things but one of the biggest themes is the way Batman has continually misled, lied to and alienated his family - and the various reasons character's believe he does that. Throughout the story we see him repeatedly omit information, mislead the others and as a result, put them at risk over and over again. Those characters, those tensions and those consequences run throughout the entire story.   
 
Quote
if it was to shine new light on the Joker, none was shone--Frank Miller already explored the idea of Joker in love with Batman in Dark Knight Returns.

It doesn't have to shine a totally new light on their relationship. It's taking a pre-existing concept - Joker is obsessed with Batman to the point of being almost in love with him - and putting a new spin on it. In Death Of The Family, Joker is actually trying to "help" Batman, he's trying to make him better, the best Batman he can be. 

Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2015, 09:53:28 AM »
Batman and Son DX edition arrived and I kind of love it.  I'm around 3/5ths in and just about to start The Black Glove.  So I've read Batman and Son, Three Ghosts of Batman and Batman in Bethlehem.  I liked them all and if there were back-references they didn't infringe on my enjoyment.  Gonna try to finish it tonight and maybe start on R.I.P.  Even though it has heavy themes, there's a lightness of touch to the writing, there's a sense of fun.  That scene in the pop art gallery with the Man-Bats?  Absolutely brilliant.

One thing I was wondering - Professor Pyg shows up in Batman in Bethlehem; was this an early "first appearance", like a sort of Pyg preview, or had he appeared prior to this?  It's my understanding that he shows up in Morrison's Batman and Robin, but that comes after R.I.P, right?

Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2015, 10:01:01 AM »
Additional question requiring an unrelated extra post:

How important is it that I read Time and the Batman?  I'm planning on skipping it and Final Crisis and just grabbing B&R v1.  Would these be the actions of a twat?

The Roofdog

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Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #50 on: July 31, 2015, 10:09:12 AM »
If the point was to estrange the Bat-family, the story should have focused more on them;

To be fair, it was a big cross-over event with the story spilling over into all the other Bat comics which did focus on them (which was one of my main problems with it, actually, I can't keep up with that shit).

Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #51 on: July 31, 2015, 10:10:32 AM »
Oh I will add that there was a prose story about clowns in the book which I, er, well, I skipped it.  Because... I can't.  I just can't.

Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #52 on: July 31, 2015, 10:11:30 AM »

I can't think of anything that could match that description apart from the [Spoiler]dinner table sequence[/Spoiler] at the end. None of the other set pieces have the slightest resemblance to "Saw" style torture porn, and even that one has a thematic point behind it.
 
Maybe it felt like a cop-out at the time, as people were led to believe [Spoiler]someone was going to die[/Spoiler]. But taken on it's own terms, without the surrounding hype, the ending is entirely in keeping with the lead up and had repercussions on the bat-family. I'd happily argue that other writers failed to capitilise on the threads it set up, but as a story about distrust, it's the perfect ending.

Agreed on this. I think I've said it elsewhere, but the timing of this story didn't help matters, given that right around the time of this story wrapping up, [spoiler]Damian Wayne is killed by the Heretic in Batman Incorporated. Meaning that what could have been an interesting few months in the book where Batman is mostly alone, are derailed by everyone kind of rallying round and together in their grief. Then they even help him out by getting Damian's body back so he can be resurrected. The visual of Batgirl, Red Hood and Red Robin in matching Robin suits is pretty cool though. I digress.[/spoiler] It felt like the repercussions of what Joker did in that story were never given a chance to be fully explored, and not really referenced until Endgame. It was always meant to be a metaphorical "Death of the Family" rather than Joker just killing a Robin again, in that by the end, their trust in Batman is just shattered, and they've all gone off doing their own thing again.

Yes, the story is nothing new, but I like what it does with those elements. And it kinda confirms that in the New 52/DCYou at least, Joker knows Batman is Bruce Wayne (Why else would he target Alfred?), but doesn't care for "Bruce" (typical "Bruce Wayne is the mask, Batman's the real person" stuff), and even the "Why hasn't he just killed The Joker already?" hinted at.

Kelvin

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Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #53 on: July 31, 2015, 10:58:45 AM »
Additional question requiring an unrelated extra post:

How important is it that I read Time and the Batman?  I'm planning on skipping it and Final Crisis and just grabbing B&R v1.  Would these be the actions of a twat?

Time and the Batman fills in a few gaps, but isn't essential. It's just makes a few things slightly clearer.

Oh I will add that there was a prose story about clowns in the book which I, er, well, I skipped it.  Because... I can't.  I just can't.

Oh, my god, it's dogshit that story. The only thing that's good about it is that I think it introduced the idea that The Joker has had innummerable different personalities, one for each comic book incarnation.

Revelator

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Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #54 on: July 31, 2015, 07:16:58 PM »
I can't think of anything that could match that description apart from [...]  None of the other set pieces have the slightest resemblance to "Saw" style torture porn, and even that one has a thematic point behind it.

The first half of the book was full of death traps and snares which recalled, to me at least, Saw (a movie that also has "a thematic point" of equal spuriousness), albeit without as much torture porn, but with the same mocking pleasure in the distress of the victim/rescuer. And even one point of resemblance is more than enough. Nevertheless, I'll gladly grant your point, since fully refuting it would require reading the book again and I'd rather carve my face off than do so.
 
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Maybe it felt like a cop-out at the time

It still does, and not because anyone died or got their face carved off. A good story doesn't depend on stunts, especially since death is cheap and meaningless in superhero comics.

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I'd happily argue that other writers failed to capitalise on the threads it set up, but as a story about distrust, it's the perfect ending.

It's a limp dick of an ending ([spoiler]ooh! the bat family refuses to return Bruce's calls![/spoiler]), especially since the bat-family has been distrusting itself since the 1990s (not surprising, since Bruce has been acting like a dick since the 80s). The ending doesn't posit anything more than yet another family snit (that will be undoubtedly papered over). And whether or not other writers failed to capitalize on it is irrelevant. The Killing Joke would have been every bit as powerful if the regular Batman comics had acted like it never existed. Ditto for Year One or Dark Knight Returns.

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The story is about several things but one of the biggest themes is the way Batman has continually misled, lied to and alienated his family - and the various reasons character's believe he does that.

Once again, Batman has doing this since the 1990s (in deservedly forgotten big-event story-lines like Bruce Wayne: Murderer), if not earlier, and we've seen him being out for his bad behavior (even the Justice League got fed up with him in The Tower of Babel). We'll undoubtedly see many more--just as the Joker will go on killing thousands of people and Batman will agonize over why he doesn't just kill the Joker, Batman will be a dick to his family and they will get angry with him, then they'll have a sentimental reconciliation, and then Batman will do something dickish again. Lather, rinse, repeat. Snyder has that down pat, but he's plainly more interested in the Joker/Batman duel than in Batman mishandling his family, who are no more than ciphers. The betrayals don't have much weight and get overshadowed by the Joker's phantasmagorias. One could argue that the bat-family is better explored in other books in the crossover, but that's an argument that depends more on sales than aesthetics, and since Snyder is doing the heavy lifting in this arc, blaming his dramatic shortcomings on others lets him off the hook.

If you want to see a good story about the partial breakup of the bat-family, I recommend "Old Wounds" from Batman: the Animated Series, which does a far more convincing and dramatically effective job of showing how Batman misled, lied to and alienated his family. And it even features the Joker! It's also nearly 20 years old, which shows that Bat-family strife is not a fresh subject.

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It doesn't have to shine a totally new light on their relationship. It's taking a pre-existing concept - Joker is obsessed with Batman to the point of being almost in love with him - and putting a new spin on it.

It's taking a conceit devised by another writer and running into the ground. It's the essence of high-concept writing--coming up with a "bold" new spin that ultimately adds little to a character but looks flashy.

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In Death Of The Family, Joker is actually trying to "help" Batman, he's trying to make him better, the best Batman he can be.

I can just envision future story arcs: Joker suggests new tires for the Batmobile, or perhaps Batman and Joker team up to design a more effective batarang. It'll be a 48 issue crossover.

Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #55 on: August 01, 2015, 04:30:35 PM »
Just grabbed Batman: The Black Mirror.  Hope it's not shit.

Also still enjoying Black Glove, will finish tonight and move onto R.I.P.

Kelvin

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Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2015, 08:24:06 PM »
So what are you skipping, madhair? Batman: Time and the Batman and Final Crisis?

Are you still planning on reading The Return of Bruce Wayne? That's one of my favourite, if not my favourite section of Morrison's run.

Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #57 on: August 03, 2015, 09:20:52 AM »
So what are you skipping, madhair? Batman: Time and the Batman and Final Crisis?

Are you still planning on reading The Return of Bruce Wayne? That's one of my favourite, if not my favourite section of Morrison's run.

Yeah, I'll read Return, and I'll probably read Time and the Batman if it's by Morrison, he's cracking. 

I went into my local comics shop (trying to make that sound like I'm supporting an indie but it's actually Forbidden Planet) to buy Final Crisis and was actively urged not to, so I bought Black Mirror instead.  Is it any good?

I'm still going through Batman and Son an issue at a time, it really is cracking stuff.  The last story I read (Joe Chill in Hell, I think) was confusing but brilliant with it, felt like the confusion was pretty intentional, really, given it's meant to be - I think - disassociated flashbacks brought on by a heart attack.  At least, I assume Batman didn't actually drive Joe Chill to suicide.  Maybe Joe Chill was just imagining his presence.  See?  Good story!

It's nice to discover that (relatively) modern Batman comics aren't the procession of grimdark I'd assumed they are.

The Roofdog

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Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #58 on: August 03, 2015, 10:20:32 AM »
You have chosen... wisely. Black Mirror is ace, probably my favourite Snyder Bat-thing (though Court Of Owls runs it close), properly gets the "detective" bit of Detective Comics right, which is all too often overlooked.

Kelvin

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Re: Batman (comics) questions/discussion
« Reply #59 on: August 03, 2015, 04:34:00 PM »
I was thinking last night madhair, that if you like Grant Morrison and want to explore the wider DC universe after reading you're current run, it might be worth trying his run on Justice League, which is very funny, light and wildly imaginative. Hardly a dud story in there.