Soup Dragons - the C86 years

[DrunkCountry]

Clearly skipped me by. I was only aware of their change of gear from that video I badly described on.

#newpagecunt

[Dr Rock]

The Soup Dragons move to 'indie dance' actually predated that of Primal Scream (and The Stone Roses' 'Fools Gold' and Happy Mondays' 'Madchester' EP) as they originally did 'Mother Universe' in 1989.

But the version that was 'baggy' was reworked after Loaded wasn't it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Universe

UK downtempo promo 7-inch; 1989[edit]
Mother Universe 7:28[8]
Mother Universe (Mother Dub) 6:23[9]
UK, October 1990 Remix[edit]
Mother Universe (7" Version) 3:50[8]
Dream-E-4-Ever (Live) 4:05
Mother Universe (12" Version) 7:29
UK, October 1990 CD[edit]
Mother Universe (Love Dub)
4-Way Brain
Mother Universe (Solar Dub)

Loaded having been released in February (had to check that of course). I can't find the original version of Mother Universe to see how much of a dance element the Soup Dragons had before Loaded, is it available to hear anywhere?

I think PWEI deserve more credit for being the first indie rock band to properly introduce a dance element to their music, at least two years before Primal Scream did it (or Andy Weatheralll did it to Primal Scream).

[23 Daves]

But the version that was 'baggy' was reworked after Loaded wasn't it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Universe

Loaded having been released in February (had to check that of course). I can't find the original version of Mother Universe to see how much of a dance element the Soup Dragons had before Loaded, is it available to hear anywhere?

I think PWEI deserve more credit for being the first indie rock band to properly introduce a dance element to their music, at least two years before Primal Scream did it (or Andy Weatheralll did it to Primal Scream).

The original version of "Mother Universe" is on Indie Top 20 Volume 9, which I have at home, and from memory (I haven't bothered to listen to it in eons) is quite dancey, yes. Nothing special, though, and it's nothing at all like "Fools Gold" or "Loaded" - a three minute pop song with a slightly funky rhythm section is the only way I'd describe it. The remix/reissue upped the dance elements a bit, but it still wasn't convincing.

PWEI were indeed early proponents of the indie-dance sound, but so were The Shamen. The Bam Bam remix of "Transcendental" was even issued to the press as being a unique collision of indie guitar and house sounds, and this was in Spring 1988. Clod-hopping shouty indie bands with drum machine loops like Age of Chance and Gaye Bykers on Acid were also two-a-penny in 87-88, but were obviously coming at things from a much heavier angle.

Then Psychic TV issued several cod-Acid House albums in 88... the influence was starting to seep into "alternative" culture gradually anyway, it just hadn't fully coalesced yet. If Primal Scream, the Happy Mondays and The Stone Roses stole the show, it was because they all issued some bloody amazing singles at roughly the same time. The Shamen are like The Damned of indie-dance in that while they came out of the traps first, nobody is going to name "Transcendental" and "You Me and Everything" as the greatest slices of brilliance baggy had to offer (even if I do have a huge soft spot for the former).

[Dr Rock]

This appears to be the remixed version, which is clearly indebted to Loaded.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcsOzkpQQZM

and the link i follow to the alleged original is this - which fair enough does indeed have a dance element, and is quite advanced from Hang Ten. And the video is all trippy too. It has the Mandelbrot set in it, you don't see that much anymore. Why was it so mind-blowing again, I forgot?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzDJTcbHL3E

I do want to be fair, if that was the single and video and it came out before Loaded, they were already fashioning the band-wagon that everyone else would jump on.

And yes The Shamen, good call.

[DrunkCountry]

This appears to be the remixed version, which is clearly indebted to Loaded.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcsOzkpQQZM

Aye, that's the fucker I remember.

[Dr Rock]

Then Psychic TV issued several cod-Acid House albums in 88... the influence was starting to seep into "alternative" culture gradually anyway, it just hadn't fully coalesced yet. If Primal Scream, the Happy Mondays and The Stone Roses stole the show, it was because they all issued some bloody amazing singles at roughly the same time. The Shamen are like The Damned of indie-dance in that while they came out of the traps first, nobody is going to name "Transcendental" and "You Me and Everything" as the greatest slices of brilliance baggy had to offer (even if I do have a huge soft spot for the former).

Very true. To be fair, looking back Voodoo Ray and trippy dance music was around for a couple of years before it filtered into Primal Scream OR the Soup Dragons. Lots of the indie band people were being exposed to ecstasy or acid and also the early acid house stuff, as you say it was seeping in all around. Primal Scream, with their new remixy friends, were lucky to be on Creation and Alan McGee's top mates as much as anything.

[Technique]

Seeing the hang ten video was fun; years since last watched. With all of them wearing jumpers their Mums bought or made for them.


Quite a change of appearance for Sean Dickson from back then to now. If he tries jumping on a bandwagon now he'll break the fucking thing.

[Jockice]

No, they bought those jumpers from Paddy's Market, as I exclusively revealed. Or would have done if it hadn't been edited out. Never mind Sean, I saw a picture of their guitarist Jim McCulloch recently. In his Dragons days he looked about 12. Now he's bald. That made me realise just how middle-aged I really am.

[Puce Moment]

PWEI were indeed early proponents of the indie-dance sound, but so were The Shamen. The Bam Bam remix of "Transcendental" was even issued to the press as being a unique collision of indie guitar and house sounds, and this was in Spring 1988. Clod-hopping shouty indie bands with drum machine loops like Age of Chance and Gaye Bykers on Acid were also two-a-penny in 87-88, but were obviously coming at things from a much heavier angle.

Then Psychic TV issued several cod-Acid House albums in 88... the influence was starting to seep into "alternative" culture gradually anyway, it just hadn't fully coalesced yet. If Primal Scream, the Happy Mondays and The Stone Roses stole the show, it was because they all issued some bloody amazing singles at roughly the same time. The Shamen are like The Damned of indie-dance in that while they came out of the traps first, nobody is going to name "Transcendental" and "You Me and Everything" as the greatest slices of brilliance baggy had to offer (even if I do have a huge soft spot for the former).

I suspect this is definitely worthy of its own thread, but I would also cite some indie dance bands that were coming out of, or heavily influenced by, 70s/80s industrial music like Cabaret Voltaire (who I would argue are patient zero for indie-dance), Skinny Puppy, Front 242, DAF and the whole Mute records thing. So I would include Nitzer Ebb, Meat Beat Manifesto, Renegade Soundwave, Sheep on Drugs, 70 Gwen Party, and even Carter USM!

[Jockice]

Apparently, The Man From Delmonte were managed by journalist, Jon Ronson according to what he revealed on his episode of RHLSP.

Yeah, that does ring a bell. Never actually met Ronson, although I've been in the same room as him more than once. However, he did play a dedication for me on his early 90s radio show, and said I was 'lovely.' Something by Buzzcocks if I remember correctly.

The original version of Mother Universe is infinitely better than the second one.

And as for indie bands dabbling in dance, what about That Petrol Emotion?

[CaledonianGonzo]

Never mind Sean, I saw a picture of their guitarist Jim McCulloch recently. In his Dragons days he looked about 12. Now he's bald. That made me realise just how middle-aged I really am.

Jim's band Snowgoose (feat. Raymond McGinley of TFC 'fame') are great.  They're more Fairporty-folky than C86 indie, but probably closer to an early Soup Dragons aesthetic than the current bear scene vibe provided by Sean.