Fred & Rose West - Ten Years On

[Ambient Sheep]

Believe it or not it's coming up to ten years since the Cromwell Road murders.  The Observer has an interesting, evocative and only occasionally wanky piece here.

I suppose I should pull some quotes from it, but having re-read it to do so, I think it's better just to read it as a whole.

[gazzyk1ns]

Next post says it

[sexual harrisment]

bollocks

I was going to try and argue sensibly against your post, but I can't be bothered to argue with shit like that.

[Pinball]

Would converting the house into a "museum of serial killing" be tasteless? Is it any more tasteless than killing 9,000 Iraqis so you can steal their oil?

[european son]

Would converting the house into a "museum of serial killing" be tasteless? Is it any more tasteless than killing 9,000 Iraqis so you can steal their oil?

wellto be honest, i'd personally love it if the post-Loveless material was released in any form. simply because i want to hear it.

however i totally 100% think that it's up to Kevin whether or not it comes out. its his music, and he can do what he likes with it. if i wrote a song i thought was terrible i wouldn't put it out no matter what other people thought about it. at least not under my own (band) name.

[king mob]

Would converting the house into a "museum of serial killing" be tasteless? Is it any more tasteless than killing 9,000 Iraqis so you can steal their oil?

Its 2 totally different points & i dont see why bringing Gulf War 2 into a discussion about the Wests is entirely fruitful.

Its odd Sheepy brought this up as i spent yesterday in the pub with someone who lived near the West's around the time this all came to be news, he mentioned the house being demolished & gave a pretty good reason why.
Once the story had broke the area was filled with tourists taking pictures of the house & asking neighbours if they could get in their house to take better pictures.
Eventually it got to a point where locals were fed up & asked the council what they could do & the decision was made to knock it down.

Nice to see Gaz celebrate the victory against the mighty Bradford by Ipswich yesterday;)

[gazzyk1ns]

Haha oh dear, that really was nonsense up there, wasn't it... It was an appalling match Mob, our goals happened to be really good but it was 2 minutes of celebrating good goals, one minute of calling Dean Windass "Sumo", and 87 minutes of being bored shitless.

Back on topic and I can't believe it's been ten years either, it feels weird being "young" still but having things like this come along which you remember very well, only to be reminded that it was a decade ago.

[Ambient Sheep]

Back on topic and I can't believe it's been ten years either, it feels weird being "young" still but having things like this come along which you remember very well, only to be reminded that it was a decade ago.

And so it starts, Gaz, so it starts...  :-)

That's the thing about getting older, you don't tend to feel old in yourself, but you meet fellow human beings that just don't remember things that you did because they didn't exist at the time.  That's quite unnerving.  I was reminded yesterday that it was 25 years since Monty Python's Life of Brian came out (released more or less the year you were born, I guess), that shook me a bit, since I was 14 at the time.

I have to say that having now arrived back at this thread for the first time since I posted it last night, it's all gone very strange!

[gazzyk1ns]

I was really drunk and posted garbage when I came in after a rubbish night out, that's all. I said I didn't like them pulling down murderer's houses or something, it was the alcohol exaggerating the fact that I did think "Wow, they're just going to pull it down?" after I heard the plans for Huntley's house. No alternative I suppose though, as Harrisment said there, I was talking absolute  bollocks.

Back on the "memories" subject, I was watching an episode of... Six Feet Under I think, last week, and the "generic any old junk telly" that Nate was watching was an episode of Friends I remember being brand new... it was weird because it's usually an old western or a trashy 70s soap. Maybe they slipped it in there on purpose, I don't know.

Hehe from Fred and Rose West to an episode of Friends, just like that, only on CaB...

[Marcus Or Relius]

I remember when the West's lovely patio was being torn up by the cops and some rather disreputable bookies in the area were reportedly running bets on how many bodies were found in total.

Speaking of serial-killers, China executed one yesterday, some guy who slaughtered 67 people. Makes you wonder how many psychos they're trying to keep quiet about over there. It was the same with the U.S.S.R, they tried to portray serial-killers as mere symptoms of the decadent West, but it turned out they had their own out-break of knife-wielding men who like to keep-themselves-to-themselves. There were some really prolific ones too that put ours to shame, like Anatoly Onoprienko who slaughtered about 50 people in five-months, going into houses and wiping out the entire family. But then, we all have bad days when we just feel really grumpy don't we?



Onoprienko...never let a man in a woolly hat into your house

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

Believe it or not it's coming up to ten years since the Cromwell Road murders.  The Observer has an interesting, evocative and only occasionally wanky piece here.

I suppose I should pull some quotes from it, but having re-read it to do so, I think it's better just to read it as a whole.

It's also coming up to 10 years since Bill Hicks and Kurt Cobain died.  Truly, 1994 was a terrible year.

[Abbie]

Thanks for the link Sheepy.  

Gloucester is tainted by this story which amassed world coverage.  I remember walking past Cromwell Street towards the park when Fred West was first arrested, I was on my lunch break during my work experience with the CPS.  I couldn't see the house.  All I could see were Japanese photographers, German photographers, American photographers...    All I could hear was their excited chatter.  How does Euan Ferguson propose that Gloucester, an already poor and strugging city, recover from this?   Two things spring the mind when you think of Gloucester - their rugby team (possibly) and the Wests.  Short of investing millions that they don't have, theres not much the city council can do about this.  It's one and only time in the global lime light was not one it would have wished for.

I work in Gloucester and can honestly say that I have never encountered this hush hush attitude that the city is commonly criticised for.  There is no memorial garden at the site for a good reason.  It was apparent from the news coverage that Fred & Rose were more important to the rest of the world than their victims.   It was widely felt that the memorial gardens wouldn't be used for their intended purpose.    Its the same reason everything from the house and the house itself was destroyed.   It wasn't a bid to forget about it all - how could it possibly be forgotten? - it was just a way to protecting the families and friends of the victims.

Ask someone a question about the Wests in Gloucester and they will ask you why you want to know.   They respond in much the same way someone would in Hyde if I started chin wagging about Shipman or went up to Bootle and started a conversation about James Bulger.  I don't seen this as odd, does anyone else?    As Euan Ferguson mentioned the city is very small and it is true that most people have some kind of connection.  Whether its through a friend of a friend or a relative or someone they used to work withs daughter or whatever.   As a testament to this I can add that my best friends mum was friends with Lucy Partington.  I remember watching her cry when Lucy was found and I remember watching her cry angrily when Fred West killed himself.   And its not just those victims either..some of the older West children still live locally, one of whom i've seen in a nighclub in Cheltenham.  So you see it is close to the hearts of a certain generation in and around the city.   The difference between Gloucester and the outside world is that Gloucester respects the victims, where as the outside world has some kind of twisted respect for Fred West.  (maybe not the right words but I hope you get my meaning)

In the town's bookshops, in the true crime sections of every one of the town's bookshops, there is a noticeable absence of any works on West

Thats not true, i've seen books on the Wests in Ottakers.  I have Gordon Burns book and can sympathise with him feeling like a pornographer researching it.  I certainly felt like a pornographer reading it.  Not reading for the faint hearted and not a book that is banned from Gloucester either.   There is little talk of the demise of the victims, but more the story of Fred and Rose themselves and the systematic abuse of their other victims, their children.

[Mister Six]

Would converting the house into a "museum of serial killing" be tasteless? Is it any more tasteless than killing 9,000 Iraqis so you can steal their oil?

Fucking hell Pinball, can you give it a rest for just a day?

[sexual harrisment]

Next post says it

I didn't mean to be so cutting in my reply, I was at work and in a bad mood.  Everyone's entitled to have a drink and talk shit now and again.  Especially after watching 90 minutes of a shit footie match.

[megatwat]

Ok then, who's everyones top ten favourite British serial killers? (Lets applaud some home grown talent).

[gazzyk1ns]

Next post says it

I didn't mean to be so cutting in my reply, I was at work and in a bad mood.  Everyone's entitled to have a drink and talk shit now and again.  Especially after watching 90 minutes of a shit footie match.

No, don't apologise at all.

I have written a further reply here in this post several times and it either comes across as sarcastic or 'not understanding', neither of which are appropriate.

Hehe of course you're right there, we all talk shit occasionally and I'm honestly glad you pointed it out. it was embarrassingly bad and I was only too glad to delete it.

I did this (replied whilst drunk, with nonsense) about three weeks ago for the first time too, and said something about a different topic which had the same undertones - I made a comment which implied people reading it were "sad" and "didn't go out" or whatever. I'm sure a psychiatrist would (rightly) tell me that it indicates some insecurities regarding myself. I didn't "reply" to any of the posts when I did it before because I didn't want to draw attention to myself, I didn't know whether to "publicly apologise" whilst possibly unnecessarily drawing attention to myself or just edit my posts and shut up. I chose the latter.

It was Tokyo Sexwhale before re: the word "inflammable" so sorry to him if he didn't read it previously. Sorry to you too Harrisment, I don't want to "over compensate" to try to make me look like some incredibly nice guy but I know how it can be when someone disagrees with you and then just splurts out "whatever...". Consider it forgotten, I was an idiot in replying with rubbish when I was drunk in both instances and I'd prefer it if nobody mentioned it again. I don't want to hijack a thread with "oooh aren't I a nice forgiving guy..." either so... well, you know. On with the thread...

[Munday's Chylde]

No, don't apologise at all.

I have written a further reply here in this post several times and it either comes across as sarcastic or 'not understanding', neither of which are appropriate.

Hehe of course you're right there, we all talk shit occasionally and I'm honestly glad you pointed it out. it was embarrassingly bad and I was only too glad to delete it.

I did this (replied whilst drunk, with nonsense) about three weeks ago for the first time too, and said something about a different topic which had the same undertones - I made a comment which implied people reading it were "sad" and "didn't go out" or whatever. I'm sure a psychiatrist would (rightly) tell me that it indicates some insecurities regarding myself. I didn't "reply" to any of the posts when I did it before because I didn't want to draw attention to myself, I didn't know whether to "publicly apologise" whilst possibly unnecessarily drawing attention to myself or just edit my posts and shut up. I chose the latter.

It was Tokyo Sexwhale before re: the word "inflammable" so sorry to him if he didn't read it previously. Sorry to you too Harrisment, I don't want to "over compensate" to try to make me look like some incredibly nice guy but I know how it can be when someone disagrees with you and then just splurts out "whatever...". Consider it forgotten, I was an idiot in replying with rubbish when I was drunk in both instances and I'd prefer it if nobody mentioned it again. I don't want to hijack a thread with "oooh aren't I a nice forgiving guy..." either so... well, you know. On with the thread...

Fucking hell Gaz. If I were you I'd be apologising for all that twatty gush you've just typed first.