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March 28, 2024, 08:34:25 AM

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So what do you believe AKA what's your idea of heaven????

Started by Jonny Jonny Butter Fiend, February 15, 2004, 06:45:22 AM

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Jonny Jonny Butter Fiend

I can't sleep, I'm down with the flu again. So in the middle of that horrible fluey state of half asleep half awake I started thinking what my idea of heaven is. I am a christian (although that gets a bad wrap round here, but I'm not dwelling on it). There's got to be something more after this, and I was just wondering what everybodys thoughts where on it? I'm not pushing Christianity here, it could be any interpretation of anybodys better place.

What's everybodys idea of heaven here? Be as creative as you want, since none of us truly know, anything could be right. To get the ball rolling, and remember if any of this sounds odd I do have the flu, haven't slept for half the night and it's now 6.30am, here's mine.

When my moment is up I'd love to step out of my body and see a Tardis in the room, stepping in it truly is bigger on the inside etc etc programming the controls it takes me to my final destination. Once there I'm greeted by all my deceased relatives and friends, the air and smells up there would be so sweet, 10 times better than anything here on earth.

God/Jesus etc whoever would turn out to be like one of your closest friends, the type of friend you just know you could trust and tell anything too, he's well pleased to see you. You can have a chat and a drink with him in the best bar in heaven..and it's free.

There's a place or a room prepared for you, and it's top to bottom with everything you loved on earth. So for me I'd have shelves with every original mint boxed G1 Transformer toy, my favourite music and then some, a television which played nothing but the music I liked (obviously this one would vary from person to person) with new music and songs from now deceased performers.

If you had to work in heaven, you'd get to fulfil your ambitions that were left unfulfilled on earth i.e you'd be able to make films in heaven, you'd have the best recording studio, you'd have the best quantity surveryors office (if that's what floats your boat).

It'd have the best theme parks, your ideal gigs..where else but in heaven would I find Electric Six supporting DEVO supporting Oingo Boingo supporting Scatman John supporting Sparks, plus you'd have the backstage pass and they'd all be really genuinely happy to see you.

You'd also get to spend as much time hanging out with your friends as you wanted, and all your pets would be there with you forever. And anything you took for granted here on earth you'd be given a chance to appreciate on a grander scale forever.

Oh yeah and Marzipan would be free in heaven.


Make of that what you will, inspired thread or simple flu induced lunacy. This thread may sink or swim, but I'm curious to know what you other whores think you'll be rewarded to after shuffling off this mortal coil.

My concept of the afterlife is that it is unlike anything that we know. I mean seriously, do you not think you'd get bored with absolute perfection? Everyone constantly happy to see you, you have everything you want? There wouldn't be any point.

I had a revelation last March, a true "religious" experience, and as a result I think the afterlife is non-physical conciousness, interlinked with everything and everyone that has ever existed ever ie. you are no longer just yourself, or even able to think of yourself as a seperate thing from anything else. You are just everything, as is everyone else.

Hard to explain I guess, but I think the point is clear.

Be prepared for a few people to come and go "OH COME ON, THERE'S NO AFTERLIFE, FACE IT, WHEN YOU DIE THERE'S NOTHING" - people who hate other people's beliefs forced on them whilst doing the same, though I guess that's just the way with these kind of subjects - I had to force myself not to write "and as a result I know the afterlife is.." because everyone who has a belief about what heaven is KNOWS that that is what it is and everyone else is wrong.

HEAVEN: Constant, vivid, controllable and never unpleasant dreaming - that lasts forever but feels eternaly new.

HELL: Constant, vivid, uncontrollable and frequently nightmarish dreaming - that lasts forever but feels longer.

hoverdonkey

Devlin, I am gonna say there's nothing. But not in a dismissive 'you're all fucking delusional way' - it's just what I believe. Today anyway. It seems almost impossible for the mind to comprehend that there is nothing after death but that's it I reckon.

All the more excuse to do as much as you can and make the best of it while you're here. Every sunrise is one that will never happen again etc etc. Here endeth Sunday's sermon.

That's what I believe - the AKA - my idea of heaven - is something completely different. It wouldn't be too far from what we have here - just less of the bad shit. I agree with Devlin that perfection would be boring, we need disappoinment to appreciate the good stuff - unless your conscioussness operates on an entirely different plane in heaven. I'm meeting myself coming back here. My idea of heaven is simply living in an idyllic little place with stunning scenery and birds and animals and flowing streams etc with my best friends. I plan on doing that anyway.  

What if we are already in heaven?

Quote from: "hoverdonkey"Devlin, I am gonna say there's nothing. But not in a dismissive 'you're all fucking delusional way' - it's just what I believe.

Sorry, I wasn't saying that those who believe in nothing all do it that way, I was specifically thinking of certain people on here who do that. Of course now that I've pointed it out they might not.

Gazeuse

Quote from: "DevlinC"
Quote from: "hoverdonkey"Devlin, I am gonna say there's nothing. But not in a dismissive 'you're all fucking delusional way' - it's just what I believe.

Sorry, I wasn't saying that those who believe in nothing all do it that way, I was specifically thinking of certain people on here who do that. Of course now that I've pointed it out they might not.

I hope you're not thinking of me. I'm always saying plainly that I don't believe in an afterlife and other supernatural things, but I hope I don't do it in a way which disrespects others beliefs.

I've got mates of various other religions who I know are putting in a good word for me, if I'm wrong, so I'm fairly hopeful that I'll be going upstairs.

What it'd be like, I don't know...I'm pretty sure that there'd be no ambition there and the first words I'd hear on waking up woyld be, "Hello duck."

Incredible Monkey Doctor

I believe Heaven is a gay nightclub in Charing Cross.

I'm otherwise in the "we die, we rot, get over it" camp.

Kingboy_D

I think the Christian concept of heaven has been wildly misinterpreted. To me Jesus was essentially a philosopher in the cultural framework of Roman occupied Judea through the eyes of an oppressed Jew. His theories of turning the other cheek and doing unto others are to me a framework of trying to create heaven on Earth, a utopian social alternative to Roman occupation. When Jesus said that the only path to heaven was through him, he meant through obeying his teachings to bring earthly paradise, not through some supernatural salvation in an afterlife. If Jesus was and Essene (and it seems likely he was) his outlook on life would have been more akin to Buddhism than anything resembling modern Christianity.

Later, when the Roman Empire adopted Christianity it was an attempt to gain control over a personally liberating worldview, and the ideas of the afterlife were expanded to be used as a means of control. "Obey these state approved laws or be damned for eternity." The medieval and modern concepts of the afterlife grew from these roots.

If an afterlife exists, it is nothing like the Christian (or Islamic) concept of it.

hoverdonkey

That reminds me - I've been meaning to read your 'Promised Land' feature Kingboy. It was yours wasnt' it? Back in an hour.

Dr. Gizmonic

Heaven is a good night's sleep and a cup of tea in the morning.

Maybe a biscuit too.

fanny splendid

Kingboy D, when you were researching your article, and looking into the early Christians and the Roman uptake of Christianity, did you read about the Gnostic Christians and the many texts included in the Nag Hammadi library?

Mister Six

Quote from: "Jonny Jonny Butter Fiend"If you had to work in heaven, you'd get to fulfil your ambitions that were left unfulfilled on earth i.e you'd be able to make films in heaven, you'd have the best recording studio, you'd have the best quantity surveryors office (if that's what floats your boat).

Personally, I don't like this idea. Where's the fun in getting everything handed to you on a plate? Where's the satisfaction in writing a book that is a "bestseller" because you're in paradise rather than because it's good (or, possibly, a book that is good because you're in Heaven and not because of your own writing skills)? I need a little bit of adversity to give good fortune its flavour, so your idea of Heaven is somewhat depressing for me. However, even if I were in a Heaven whose rewards were tempered by hardship, the knowledge that I would ultimately win would still sap the satisfaction from life so upon entering Heaven, I would need to have all knowledge that I was there wiped from my mind.

The application of Special Logic tells me that I must currently be in Heaven, and am therefore destined for wonderful things.

You are God and I claim my five pounds.

wasp_f15ting

Heh I don't want to consign myself to an experience I cannot comprehend into saying that "I will like it if it were like this" If you think about it all the choices and circumstances that you are apart of now are a culmination of choices and situations you crated for yourself through your choices. So to that effect I really don't want to say anything like "I'd want a perfect job" or "loads of sex with aesthetic flesh puppets" for my predicament is my choice thus the best possible outcome of my existence.

As for the good music, we need bad music to compare to the good no?, same with bad and the good, the old common sense rule of "take the good with the bad" I really would not want a perfect world, I know that my "thrill" and exhilaration come from the constant thought of things going wrong, so to better that I work and study to elevate myself from a situation I "could" find myself in. If this worry was taken away I am not sure I would be able to function at all. Fear and circumstance are factors which make my life worth living.

Not sure if it's the right way to go about it like, but it works for me. Heaven for me would be a world without consequence I guess. The way things snowball and come to fuck me up later on in life is something I really hate. No I don't want a carte blanche to go and rape loads of Japanese school girls either.. I just want every day to be free of consequence, at least for a year, since a world without consequence wouldn't evolve situations you'll learn to deal with.  Its actually really good thread title this :) since what we all want to be heaven, are only situations we'd want for a decade or something.

Capuchin

Quote from: "Gazeuse"
Quote from: "DevlinC"
Quote from: "hoverdonkey"Devlin, I am gonna say there's nothing. But not in a dismissive 'you're all fucking delusional way' - it's just what I believe.

Sorry, I wasn't saying that those who believe in nothing all do it that way, I was specifically thinking of certain people on here who do that. Of course now that I've pointed it out they might not.

I hope you're not thinking of me. I'm always saying plainly that I don't believe in an afterlife and other supernatural things, but I hope I don't do it in a way which disrespects others beliefs.

I don't get the 'no disrespect' thing. In cases of belief, you either do or you don't, and when you do you automatically believe everything else is wrong.
Obviously this depends on the belief you hold, but I don't know how you can say "no disrespect, but there's no god and when you die, you die" to someone who believes in a particular brand of afterlife.
Not trying to get at anyone, just trying to get at what people mean.

:placatory grin:

Lord Spong

Quote from: "DevlinC"I had a revelation last March, a true "religious" experience, and as a result I think the afterlife is non-physical conciousness, interlinked with everything and everyone that has ever existed ever ie. you are no longer just yourself, or even able to think of yourself as a seperate thing from anything else. You are just everything, as is everyone else.

I'm fascinated by this.  Any chance of elaborating?

hoverdonkey

Quote from: "Capuchin"

I don't get the 'no disrespect' thing. In cases of belief, you either do or you don't, and when you do you automatically believe everything else is wrong.
Obviously this depends on the belief you hold, but I don't know how you can say "no disrespect, but there's no god and when you die, you die" to someone who believes in a particular brand of afterlife.
Not trying to get at anyone, just trying to get at what people mean.

:placatory grin:

Yes but its just a belief - something no one knows for sure, so I can't say that Devlin is automatically wrong. I spose it depends on how deeply-felt and strong your belief is on something. My conciliatory tone probably just exposes the fact that mine wasn't a strong belief, just what I believe is the case without putting in huge amounts of thought. This semantic stuff  is all a bit off the point though.