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[muso] How do you write a song?

Started by Neil, October 13, 2004, 02:24:19 PM

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neveragain

Would anyone be willing to offer up onto the board any of the lyrics they've written for us all to admire and aspire to, or do you feel that would invite plagiarism? I don't know whether it's a good idea but, if you think so, I'd love to read some - in fact, I'm sure we all would.

The nearest I've came to being musical, by the way, is changing the words to Van Morrison's Brown Eyed Girl into a cheery refrain about domestic violence (you can probably guess how I altered the title) and working out the tune to a faux-1950s dinnerband piece called 'I Can Walk Inbetween Parallel Lines'.

falafel

This one quite literally came to me in a dream last night (so it's rubbish)

My dog's got fleas and stinks of shit
But I don't care 'cause I love it
I love my dog
I really love my dog (I don't, I hate it)

In my dream, it was set to reggae backing music. It was a dream about a smelly, flea ridden poodle that kept chasing me.


Oh, proper lyrics, you say? Maybe if I can find some decent ones lying around.

Jemble Fred

These lyrics only work when sung in a happy go-lucky Al Jolson style. I don't write proper lyrics. Y'know, the type that are meant to mean something.

GREAT BIG BARREL

I'm gonna drown myself in a great big barrel (Drown myself in a great big barrel),
Drown myself in a great big barrel of love.

I'm gonna cut myself with a broken bottle (Cut myself with a broken bottle),
Cut myself with a broken bottle of love.

I'm gonna try,
Many kinds of self-harm just to catch your eye,
I don't wanna die,
So just get rid of him or I'll cut up my skin.

I'm gonna shoot myself with a sawn-off shotgun (Shoot myself with a sawn-off shotgun),
Shoot myself with a sawn-off shotgun of love.

INSTRUMENTAL

Ooh gonna do,
Many kinds of self-abuse till I get hold of you,
Ooh well I'm blue,
From my head to my shoes, got my neck in a noose.

I'm gonna drown myself in a great big barrel (DROWN MYSELF IN A GREAT BIG BARREL!),
Drown myself in a great big barrel of lo-o-ove,
Drown myself in – a great big barrel of love.

Frinky

Maybe we should start a lyrics thread, then?

Rubella

Would anyone....like to give me a drumkit so I can learn, please?

Gazeuse

Quote from: "Rubella"Would anyone....like to give me a drumkit so I can learn, please?

Make sure you borrow a rubber ring too!!!

(Ask any drummer why!!!)

the hum

I don't usually set out with the intention of writing a tune.  Typically what happens is I'll be noodling something on the guitar which I might like the sound of.  The problem often comes from not 'sketching' it down immediately, before I forget it.  I'm sure I've lost hundreds of riffs over the years by not doing this.  So, plug into the soundcard, fire up Soundforge and stick it in an 'ideas bank' file I have.

I have some (very) limited keyboard playing ability, and since I use soft synths its easy enough to get an idea down quickly - just hit record and get the MIDI notes down.  Depending on my enthusiasm for it over the next couple of days this'll either be added to and built up into a song, or left isolated forever as an idea, possibly to be picked up on at a later date if I remember it's there and still like it.

One of the interesting things is how a piece of music can take on a different form and feeling once you've something down beyond the initial riff.  This can be good, as you might think 'hey didn't realise it would sound like that with that bassline/strings' or whatever, but also frustrating if it takes you away from the initial idea you had in mind.  It's also fun mixing different time sigs, melodies, etc in the same bit of music...in true prog rock tradition (yikes!).

Lyrics are a frequently a bit of a difficult point for me.  I can sing a bit, and have written a couple I'm quite proud of, but it can often be hard to write them without them sounding a bit clunky, especially if they're on a specific subject.  Best way around that is to keep them fairly oblique - a lot of my favourite tunes are ones whose lyrics are open to interpretation.  They just seem to flow better.

Auntie Ovipositor

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you're going to find a way to write a song. It just doesn't work like that. There are strategies for getting them written, sure, but they only help you if you're able to do it in the first place. Dive in and do it and don't worry about sucking horribly.

I would recommend if it's at all possible to find some other people and try out some of your ideas with them. You don't need to bring in finished pieces, just parts that you think are going to work together or rough ideas. You don't have to be serious about forming a band or anything, but bringing ideas in and playing them with other people will get you father along in understanding the mechanics of making songs than anything else I can think of. It'll get you used repeating a song, get you more fluent in discussing and disecting the parts, and it'll put some pressure on you, which is a good thing. It'll also make you a lot better musician.  At first you will suck horribly, but pretty soon you'll start being able to get through songs, then get better at making that mean something. After you do a bit of that it'll be a bazillion times easier to build songs on your own.

If for some reason you can't find anyone else to play with, don't try to do big arrangements. Play guitar and sing. Get used to getting through songs that way, and figuring out how to make a song work simply. Then add some bells and whistles if you like - add them afterwards, though, after the song already works. Then, when you've got that to where you're comfortable with it, try working with some loops or additional parts.

Good luck.

Good advice there, Auntie. A dictaphone comes in handy too for '4am musical ephiphanies'.

ninestonecreature

QuoteGood advice there, Auntie. A dictaphone comes in handy too for '4am musical ephiphanies'.

'Tis true. Or, like me, you could have a cumbersome old Sony tape recorder on your bedside table.

mrpants

I haven't had a read through it yet but this website - http://www.easy-song-writing.com seems to offer some good articles on song writing.

It seems catered more to someone who wants to write a 'hit song' but there are probably something there for us hobbyists.

Nearly Annually

Quote from: "Gazeuse"
Quote from: "Rubella"Would anyone....like to give me a drumkit so I can learn, please?
Make sure you borrow a rubber ring too!!!
And safety goggles. For the first few weeks of playing I had a habit of sticking drum sticks in my eyes. Plus there's the flying splinters. At first you break loads of sticks, but that tails off after a bit. Don't let your right hand stop just because your left hand's doing something - that's what lots of beginners do. (Mind you, Charlie Watts still does it and he's fared pretty well.)

Rats

Almost had no intentions of being in a band until his friend caught him masturbating and rolling a joint at the same time.
"I didn't even put him off his stroke when I walked in, he's the man for the job"

no_offenc

Quote from: "Nearly Annually"
Quote from: "Gazeuse"
Quote from: "Rubella"Would anyone....like to give me a drumkit so I can learn, please?
Make sure you borrow a rubber ring too!!!
And safety goggles. For the first few weeks of playing I had a habit of sticking drum sticks in my eyes. Plus there's the flying splinters. At first you break loads of sticks, but that tails off after a bit. Don't let your right hand stop just because your left hand's doing something - that's what lots of beginners do. (Mind you, Charlie Watts still does it and he's fared pretty well.)

You only break loads of sticks when you're learning because you're a divvy and buy no-name maple sticks and twat them madly.  I'm a Vater man myself.  Nice solid hickory drumsticks.  Either the Chad Smith "Funk Blaster" sticks (nice and chunky, not too weighty, hefty tip for definition on cymbals and a short taper for strength and power when crashing and rimshotting) or 5Bs, whichever are available.  And I use Paiste RUDEs.  Which can be extremely loud if I want it.  The hi-hats are verrrrrry nice, as are the two crashes that I have (only a 16" and a 17" of which the 17" gets used as both a crash and a ride).  I love drumming.

I've also bought a Korg microKORG synth recently for a new band I've joined called "brute forsyth".  That goldentony one is in it as well.

Neil

Thought this one was worth a bump as I'm once again trying to overcome my intimidation and create some music.  I have actually written one song now, and still have pages and pages of nice chord progressions that I intend to do things with.

I'm also looking for some advice on writing lyrics.  Any suggestions there? Do they have to rhyme for example?

dan dirty ape

Re:lyrics. I tend to think of a pageful of potential song titles first and then theme some lyrics around the ones I think are the most interesting. As with all types of writing, the more you do the better you get. I wouldn't worry if you think the first ones you come out with are gauche, jarring or whatever. Just hammer 'em out. Throw the internal quality control out the window for the first draft and then go back and change what you don't like.

9

I usually have five or six guitar parts that i'm toying with at any one time; then if I decree one to be song-worthy i'll set aside a few hours to flesh it out.

lyrics come last, and are usually done very quickly.

Recording vocals is such a fucking nightmare, especially if you have a voice like a wounded animal.

oceanthroats

I start off with the chords and melody and the words, or some of th ewords usually come together from there. Usually there's some sort of a phrase or a general sort of idea two or three words coming together in an unusual way spark off, and it always seems to come together with the melody and chords, but at that point you then sort of work the rest of the lyrics out later. For me it's a gradual thing. Most of the best lyrics come when I'm out walking and over a few weeks. I don't think i've ever just written a song like that and have it all together. It always comes slowly and gradually. Which can be very frustrating but that's the way it works for me.

As for whether things have to rhyme, depends what the song is like but it often helps if it rhymes and it can sort of set the whole song up better and make it fit better.
I've had a few songs that don't rhyme everywhere but I'm reluctant to change them now because they're fairly old and cranky and they won't be tampered with.
Most of my newer songs rhyme but it's a struggle to make sure the rhyme isn't overly contrived so I wait for them to come, and often the rhyme seems to show you the direction the rest of the lyrics are going. a rhyme can give you a new idea for the next line and take the song down a new avenue.
So for me, yeah, they do need to rhyme. It makes it sound better I find, but I always seem to like to make sure the the initial word has plenty of rhyming words waiting in the wings before I use it.
And depending what the song is like, it doesn't have to rhyme in nice neat verse chorus verse ways, sometimes you can have the rhyme halfway through the verse and then let the thing shoot off in another direction.