Captain America: Civil War

[Urinal Cake]

I liked Winter Soldier so I look forward to this. I admit I gasped when I saw

Spoiler alert

Black Panther

[close]

(I haven't kept up with Marvel news so don't really now if that's a spoiler or not) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43NWzay3W4s

[Onken]

The first one was alright and the second a big bag of shite. I wouldn't care to see a third. What I want to know is why Scarlet Johansson's character, who I'm happy I don't know her name, spends so much time with Captain America if she's secretly shagging the Hulk. I can't wait for the comic book films to stop.

[Glebe]

The first one was alright and the second a big bag of shite.

Come off it, Onken! The first one was dreary, Winter Soldier was actually pretty good... however, this is more kinda like Avengers 2½, and given what a clusterfuck Age of Ultron was, that's not good news. But hey look,

Spoiler alert

it's William Hurt from The Incredible Hulk!

[close]

[Dr Rock]

Spoiler alert

T'CHALLA!!

[close]

[BlodwynPig]

You know when Police Academy seemed good, maybe the first couple of films, then everything after was repetitive shite...

Trailer: "generic bass synth intro", "generic set-up", "generic plot", "generic threat", "generic CGI", "generic fight scene", "generic fanboy overreaction"

[Custard]

First one was a bit of a snooze, the second was excellent, and one of the very best of the Marvels.

This one does look like it might be a bit of a clusterfuck, Avengers b-side however. I think they're even crowbarring Spider-Man in too

[BritishHobo]

This trailer just makes them look like cunts. If these are the superpowered people defending/avenging us, and they can't even talk out a political dispute without suiting up and beating the unholy shit out of each other, I bloody want a Superhero Registration Act.

[phantom_power]

Interestingly they seem to be lining up Tony Stark as being on the side of the government and Cap on the side of the vigilantes, which is the opposite of what I would have expected.

I think it will be interesting to see how they deal with the fact that it is a group of heroes against each other. Who will we be siding with? Will we be encouraged to see both sides of the argument? How much will it mirror real world politics? I thought Winter Soldier was one of the smartest, least bloated of the Marvel films so I have hopes that they will deal with these issues in a decent manner, as it is the same writing and directing teams

[MojoJojo]

Interestingly they seem to be lining up Tony Stark as being on the side of the government and Cap on the side of the vigilantes, which is the opposite of what I would have expected.

While I haven't read the comics, I'm sure I've read some rants about how the Civil War comics were a load of bollocks and the fact that Stark and Cap took opposite sides to what would make sense was one of the criticisms.

[BritishHobo]

Doesn't Stark say something like "If we accept limitations then we're no different than bad guys?" that doesn't really make much sense?

[phantom_power]

Doesn't Stark say something like "If we accept limitations then we're no different than bad guys?" that doesn't really make much sense?

I thought it was if they DON'T accept limitations

[Kelvin]

It is. Tony's arc leading up to this point is realising that he causes as many problems as he solves. He's obviously decided that he - and they - need limitations.

[Spiteface]

Come off it, Onken! The first one was dreary, Winter Soldier was actually pretty good... however, this is more kinda like Avengers 2½, and given what a clusterfuck Age of Ultron was, that's not good news.

Given all the news I keep hearing about Civil War, it feels more "Special" in a way Age of Ultron just didn't. Winter Soldier is definitely better than the first Cap movie, and probably the best Marvel movie so far. Age of Ultron kinda soured me on Joss Whedon as well. His schtick just doesn't work anymore.

Marvel are just taking the piss now. If they still keep just piling in references to other forthcoming movies in their "Cinematic Universe" then frankly they need to just stop, because it really is starting to become detrimental to the actual film people paid to see.

[Urinal Cake]

It is. Tony's arc leading up to this point is realising that he causes as many problems as he solves. He's obviously decided that he - and they - need limitations.

As well as Cap realising governments can't be trusted. Tony also has little to lose since he doesn't have a secret identity to hide either. Tony's main issue is security, Steve's main issue is liberty.

[Still Not George]

As well as Cap realising governments can't be trusted. Tony also has little to lose since he doesn't have a secret identity to hide either. Tony's main issue is security, Steve's main issue is liberty.

That's the way the comics like to slant it, because OMG MAH FUREEDOMS but in the end it's because Tony Stark isn't actually a superhero in the sense a lot of the others are. The divide is between superhumans and non-superhumans.

Stark can just take off his suit, that's it, job done. He's still a gazillionaire philanthropist playboy. He's still a big mover and shaker. Same with Black Widow and War Machine.

Cap literally can't take his off, he'd have to wear a suit made of lead just to be normal. If Bucky takes off his gear, he's just a half-crazy guy with one arm and no job. Same applies to most people on his side, except Hawkeye but then who the fuck knows why Hawkeye does anything?

Civil War was a clever storyline because while it pretended to be about freedom, it was actually about money, class, power, and it was about whether it's ever OK to accept the will of the majority regarding something about yourself over which you have no choice or control. It was about people whose superpower was having a rich family vs people who literally cannot be anything other than what they are. If Marvel Studios can get this across in the movie - ideally without it seeming preachy - then they may have something quite special on their hands, as Spiteface said above.

[Johnny Textface]

Where's Spidey then?

[madhair60]

Where's Spidey then?

Post-credits probably

[Alberon]

Over the last few months I've been catching up on the Marvel films as I hadn't seen any of them (which considering I watch Agents of SHIELD is, admittedly, a bit strange). Of them all, my favourite is Guardians of the Galaxy. Best series for me is the Iron Man films, even if the second one sags Ben Kingsley in the third makes up for it.

For a Hollywood film where the bigger the budget, the lower the IQ of a film[nb]For example, Avatar. Cost a fortune, story would lose a battle of wits with a coffee table.[/nb] the Marvel ones do okay. I can't really say more than that though.

I wonder when they're going to do the major-hero-'dies' sort of storyline?

[Urinal Cake]

Civil War was a clever storyline because while it pretended to be about freedom, it was actually about money, class, power, and it was about whether it's ever OK to accept the will of the majority regarding something about yourself over which you have no choice or control. It was about people whose superpower was having a rich family vs people who literally cannot be anything other than what they are.

I dipped in and out of the comics so that level of nuance escaped me. Stark in the comics vs the movies is interesting. To comic book fans he's portrayed as a dick- civil war, Illuminati etc but for fans of the movies he's the favourite.

Anyway I'm Team Steve.

[Still Not George]

I dipped in and out of the comics so that level of nuance escaped me. Stark in the comics vs the movies is interesting. To comic book fans he's portrayed as a dick- civil war, Illuminati etc but for fans of the movies he's the favourite.

It's because comics are great, but they can't portray charisma and charm properly. It always comes across slightly stilted, smarmy or off. In the movies, however, you can just cast Robert Downey Jr to play himself in a suit and boom, job done.

But it's inarguable that in the comics he's an antihero at very best, occasionally slipping into antivillain here and there. His conflict is between his desire to be the hero everyone thinks he is and the fact that underneath it all, he actually is a total asshole and he knows it. So all his "big internal struggle" stuff is really between who Tony is and who he wants people to believe he is, to the extent of actually changing Earth's technological base purely to attempt to outrun his own Massive Wanker nature, which is really fucking heavy shit for a comic about people in robot armour beating up bad guys.

Anyway I'm Team Steve.

Same here. I kinda have to be, being a half-gayer and all.

[madhair60]

Felt nothing watching the trailer.  I think I'm a bit burned out on Marvel.

[Mister Six]

Given all the news I keep hearing about Civil War, it feels more "Special" in a way Age of Ultron just didn't. Winter Soldier is definitely better than the first Cap movie, and probably the best Marvel movie so far. Age of Ultron kinda soured me on Joss Whedon as well. His schtick just doesn't work anymore.

Marvel are just taking the piss now. If they still keep just piling in references to other forthcoming movies in their "Cinematic Universe" then frankly they need to just stop, because it really is starting to become detrimental to the actual film people paid to see.

To be fair to Whedon, the problems with Age were more to do with Marvel mandating a load of shite preview/teaser stuff for future films (Thor's nonsensical magic cave[nb]Which he found by talking to, er, a scientist.[/nb] was a big bone of contention for Whedon, from what I gather), and the whole thing having to be hacked down to the point that practically everyone's character arcs were chopped out, save for Hulk/Widow.

Anyway, given how convoluted and bloated this film has sounded with each new press release (It'll have Tony Stark! It'll have Black Panther! It'll have Spider-Man!), I was very pleasantly surprised by this trailer. Winter Soldier was excellent, and helped by focusing the climax not on giant space planes, but on the relationship between Cap and Bucky.[nb]Which was itself a mirroring of the film's ultimately pacifist stance - you don't win by constantly beating down on someone, you win by bringing them over to your side.[/nb] Since that relationship is apparently at the core of this film, and the central motivation for Cap going rogue, it's looking surprisingly cohesive and tight.

My only concern is that there's going to be ANOTHER secret evil plot by secret evil politicians/Hydra stooges that will render the central character conflicts moot and provide a lazy get-out clause so the film doesn't have to bother following through on any of the big, earth-shaking divisions created by this film. I would worry that they wouldn't actually wrap up anything meaningful, leaving it as a massive teaser for the next film, but hopefully the Cap/Bucky story that's central to this tale will be given a satisfying conclusion.

[confettiinmyhair]

Marvel are just taking the piss now. If they still keep just piling in references to other forthcoming movies in their "Cinematic Universe" then frankly they need to just stop, because it really is starting to become detrimental to the actual film people paid to see.

It will be interesting to see how Marvel fares when they are in competition with the DC 'universe' and the Star Wars franchise. Up until now they've had no real competition. Age of Ultron just felt tired, bloated and dull; and I think a film like Civil War needs to stand up on its own like Winter Soldier did and not just act as a set up for the next phase of films.

[BritishHobo]

I thought it was if they DON'T accept limitations

Well FUCK HIM then

[kidsick5000]

It will be interesting to see how Marvel fares when they are in competition with the DC 'universe' and the Star Wars franchise.

THere is no competition with DC. Warners are hopelessly flapping their arms. The only positive for them at the moment is that they'll get a new Batman franchise even if Bats v Supes flops, they'll have that to fall back on.
And if Star Wars sticks to being a Disney winter tentpole, Marvel's got no worries as they have carved out the top and tail of summer to such an extent nobody wants to open at the same time.

The Civil War trailer is very promising and could end up being the best Avengers film, partly because it doesn't need to equal time its lead characters.

[Spiteface]

It will be interesting to see how Marvel fares when they are in competition with the DC 'universe' and the Star Wars franchise. Up until now they've had no real competition. Age of Ultron just felt tired, bloated and dull; and I think a film like Civil War needs to stand up on its own like Winter Soldier did and not just act as a set up for the next phase of films.

I agree, and I wonder if part of the reason, on some childish level, for making the second "DCCU" film Batman V Superman, with Wonder Woman thrown in (and cameos from Aquaman and Flash), is to just stick it to Marvel, because that's three big names there, bigger than any Marvel character is away from the films (anyone who thinks the likes of Thor or Iron Man were on Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman's level before the films has been sniffing glue). Marvel's biggest achievement so far as been simply making people give a shit about characters they still kept the rights to.

Star Wars... it's all Disney (who also own Marvel, even if the movies were set in motion before Disney bought them up), so I don't think that's going to concern the people pumping in the money all that much. If DC can nail Batman V Superman, and everything else leading up to a Justice League film, then it's on.

Hell, remember when Batman as a film property was DEAD after 1997? Imagine if DC can rehab, say Green Lantern in the way they did with Batman with Batman Begins (Some people will knock the Nolan films but it was the perfect approach at the time), and make Aquaman into something not seen as a joke outside of hardcore fans ("He talks to fish? lame!"), that's far more interesting to me in terms of western superheroes these days. Aquaman's solo movie could be the most interesting one of the bunch, at least visually because it should be mostly underwater, so it'd be different from fighting in a city or space.

[phantom_power]

There is no battle between DC and Marvel for most people though, in the same way there is no battle between Die Hard and Lethal Weapon. There is room for both sets of films and the good ones will do well and the bad ones won't, in the main. The only thing Marvel have to worry about is Marvel, and their quality control and what talent they get in to write and direct their films

[Glebe]

Given all the news I keep hearing about Civil War, it feels more "Special" in a way Age of Ultron just didn't. Winter Soldier is definitely better than the first Cap movie, and probably the best Marvel movie so far. Age of Ultron kinda soured me on Joss Whedon as well. His schtick just doesn't work anymore.

Civil War looked like an interesting proposition (I haven't read the comics series), until the half-baked nonsense on display in AoU. Still, I'm sure I'll go and see it and I hope it's gonna be at least half-decent.

Post-credits probably

Nah, he's gonna be in it proper, apparently. Looking forward to that actually, glad he's in the 'proper' Marvel Universe after Columbia Pictures' cynical 'reboot'.

Oh and by the way, I've said it before but Ant Man was pretty shite, overall... a couple of amusing scenes, and that's about it. I believe Edgar Wright jumped ship because of the need to include all the Avengers stuff, which is a big pity.

Spoiler alert

Ant Man breaking into the Avengers' HQ and encountering Falcon was just embarrassing

[close]

, like a child making up a story playing with his action figures.

[olliebean]

I liked Ant Man. Could definitely have done without the Avengers stuff though. I'd sooner be able to just watch a film without having to think about how it links up to what might be going on in other less interesting films.

[Mister Six]

There is no battle between DC and Marvel for most people though, in the same way there is no battle between Die Hard and Lethal Weapon. There is room for both sets of films and the good ones will do well and the bad ones won't, in the main. The only thing Marvel have to worry about is Marvel, and their quality control and what talent they get in to write and direct their films

Yes and no. What you're saying is right on a film-to-film basis, but Marvel are in danger of saturating the market as is (2017-2019 will have three films a year). Add in the X-Men films (two planned for 2016), the Nth reboot of the Spider-Man franchise, the occasional mainstream superhero movie like The Fantastic Four, and the odd indie superhero flick (Chronicle etc) and you've got a fairly busy calendar for that genre.

Add in the DC movies and you're looking at another two films a year until 2020 (inclusive). And that's just the confirmed ones. There are other DC flicks that have been in development for a while, like Guillermo del Toro's Dark Universe, an adaptation of the Justice League Dark comics that's now pushing on under a new director.[nb]Possibly with Colin Farrell as John Constantine.[/nb] They'll need a release date too.

So yeah, I think it's reasonable to be concerned about over-saturation and audience exhaustion, even if the films aren't given the same release date.

Personally, and admittedly based on anecdotal evidence, I think Avengers 2 knocked the wind out of a lot of people's sails. Even if they weren't able to articulate why, practically everyone I've spoken to about that film was disappointed by it. If Marvel keeps pushing that route - making the films as much (or more) about servicing the franchise as telling an interesting, self-contained story - then people are going to start dropping out, or only going to Marvel movies if they head good word-of-mouth.

Civil War looks like it might be strong enough to give the franchise a shot in the arm (and there were a lot of good feelings about Cap 2, which will help), but Marvel needs to be very wary of exhausting its audience, especially now there's a rival franchise that has the two biggest superhero names in it.