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March 29, 2024, 11:19:07 AM

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[Football]

Started by mayer, October 16, 2004, 03:17:34 PM

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qki

Regarding the penalty, I refer you to rules regarding direct free kicks:

A direct free kick is awarded for the following offences:

Quote
1) A player kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
2) Trips or attempts to trip an opponent
3) Jumps at an opponent
4) Charges an opponent
5) Strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
6) Pushes an opponent
7) Makes contact with the opponent before touching the ball when tackling
8) Holds an opponent
9) Spits at an opponent
10) Handles the ball deliberately

If any of these offences are committed by a player inside their own penalty area then it's a penalty.


I'd say that means it was a penalty. The fact that there was no contact is irrelevant, except that Rooney should have been booked for diving. Still a penalty!

I see that the FA are launching an inquiry into van Nistelrooy's tackle on Cole and into Wenger's post-match comments, in which he accuses Mike Riley of wearing a red shirt under his ref's kit. The pathetic, petulant arsehole.

although I hate Fergie much more than Wenger

mayer

regarding the match in particular, like i've said before United just about edged it


regarding that list of offences; that's analagous to the Laws of this country, where pretty much everyone of us is ciminalized, and it's the Copper's decision who to arrest.

if a Penalty was given for every "attempted trip" (for the record. Cambell "attempted to get the ball", why on Earth would he attempt to trip him in the box?), or hilariously every "push" or "charge" in the box (or charges outside the box when clean through...), then football would become unwatchable.


though, it would make the ridiculousness of what goes on for every corner/free kick in this country calm down a bit.


regarding all the "whinging".... i felt that yeah, Wenger moans like the best of them, but Fergie, 2-0 winner still felt the need to bitch about Paddy. Also, he's nicking Wenger's classic post-match lines....

Mr Colossal

I just love how Wengers eyesight fluctuates so wildly.

The Rooney pen seems to have distracted people from the actual truth in arsenal didn't deserve to get anything out of the game. In the after match interview with Wenger they had a huge discussion about that incident, but failed to remind him that United should have had a second penalty, which would even things out anyway, and they conceded again.

I don't think it was a pen, but seeing as its Arsenal, and they had a few perfectly valid goals  from fulham chalked off previously in the season its quite deserving . Wenger still has a lead on the rest of the teams so if his team really are the best they should have nothing to worry about.

Come their next defeat i wonder how many minutes will pass before he startes winging about fixture congestion again.

About the penalty issue, some decisions i think are just stupid. Like recently i saw one given when the ball was in play up the pitch but the goaly had a scuffle with the striker, who was still lurking in his box winding him up after he taken a goal kick. Resultingly the keeper was sent off and a penalty was given. I can't see how a penalty can deservedly be given when you havn't even got possession of the ball, especially when was on the halfway line at the time of the incident.

Peking O

Aparently Alex Ferguson had soup thrown over him. Campbell's maybe?

axel

None of this was a patch on Bradford City's last few games. 2-1, 5-4, 2-1 and 3-1. Exciting, attcking football (ok the defending has been appaling but its the best stuff we've played in ages.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,436-1326720,00.html

mayer

Quote from: "Mr Colossal"Come their next defeat

you want me to wait that long...?

Mr Colossal

Im sure they will sink to their champions league form at some point before the 1st Feb 2005. Liverpool, Chelsea, Bolton and   Newcastle x2 games will be interesting.

fanny splendid

Quote from: "mayer"
Quote from: "Mr Colossal"Come their next defeat

you want me to wait that long...?

Well, it wasn't that long, unless of course you're being very specific?

mayer

Quote from: "fanny splendid"
Quote from: "mayer"
Quote from: "Mr Colossal"Come their next defeat

you want me to wait that long...?

Well, it wasn't that long, unless of course you're being very specific?

i assumed Colossal meant League defeat.

fanny splendid

Ah right, just checking.

Borboski

For christ sakes I can't believe that statement "Eh swings and roundabouts, knowarramean". Fucking hell.

Yep, it makes the Premiership more exciting, it's a good story.  And when Arsenal are playing and perhaps there's a foul and the refs misses it, for a few seconds I'll laugh... but I don't seriously want Arsenal to win by cheating.  Not at all.  Now maybe I'm not a real football fan - I do find the majority of football fans I meet will use particular uneducated arguments, reduced to non-stop fallacies.. i.e. "what do you mean Nistelrooy fouled, I remember Bergkamp stamped on someone in a World Cup game and it wasn't blown for" - "oh right... that makes it the Nistelrooy's act all right then?".  But like I say - I don't want Manure to turn up at Highbury and for us to just try and kick their heads and hope the ref doesn't blow for ours.

Again, that there was a decent shout for Ronaldo is by the by. The game would have been different by then. You can't weigh the outcomes from something didn't happen with something that did.  It's A FALLACY.

I thought that game was a bit of a disgrace.  People are moaning too much at refs at the moment but then is there any wonder. Mike Riley, and I'm sure Walrusdyne would agree, is looking increasingly like a bad referee.

Clearly refs will get things wrong - but Riley was just rubbish. It was beyond belief really;

Ljungberg through.... CLATTER "Carry on lads!"
Ashely Cole turned... CLATTER "Carry on lads!"

And so on, etc, etc.  I would be a bit embarassed if my team won like this, but so on.

But it wasn't the refs fault, who was just shite, I assume he didn't purposely favour Man U. It very much seemed like ManU targeted Reyes to boot the hell out of him.  Manchester aren't a dirty team but when Arsenal turn up they only have one solution, to kick the fuck out of them.  We saw it in the cup game last year, we saw at at Old Trafford old year, and we saw it on Sunday.

On and Pires did not "dive" against Portsmouth, this is a mistake that people are reproducing, anyone who watched the game can see there was serious, genuine contact, enough to impede him. He went down easy, but it wasn't the same as the type of thing Ronaldo did when he turned up here, or Rooney,  who was a little cunt from start to finish - congratulations, you've got a Dennis Wise there - who dived.  He really is a little twat, and if someone doesn't take him aside soon I fully expect to see wife-beating alcohol fuelled prossy shagging come 2008.

If I'd lost a game like that I'd throw my fucking dummy out, and I've had kept the soup in the can that I'd thrown.  I think Fergie knows full well he can push it as far as he likes at home - its surely subconcious but all the established teams - Madrid, Juventus - get pisstake referee treatment (Arsenal have started to get it too to be fair), and again, it just makes the game less fun.

The snidey fan in me says "Well, the best thing is seeing Man U celebrate like theyve won the fucking world cup, it shows how far they're on the slide, when they've been put back in touch with Bolton and Everton", while the sensible person in me loses interest in the whole shebang.

DonkeyRhubarb

Quote from: "Peking O"Aparently Alex Ferguson had soup thrown over him. Campbell's maybe?

Or was it Hienze?

Ho! Ho!

hands cold, liver warm

1) most united or arse fans are glory hunters
2) most of their players are dirty and cheaters, knowing referees will let them get away with it
3) most people could not give a fuck about either club
4) they both play in red, the colour of wickedness and alchemy
5) they are full of funny looking players from foreign countries that we have been at war with for centuries. It still sickens me that arsenal are allowed to have a german goalkeeper. And what about the french ones; liberty, equality and fraternity my arse.  
6) There is evidence to suggest both clubs are involved in ritualised rape and baby eating. Also the players develop novel electronic products  sold at prices too high for british manufacturing, thus widening the economic gap between Britian and Europe.
7) bastards
8) cunts

DonkeyRhubarb

Quote from: "hands cold, liver warm"1) most united or arse fans are glory hunters
2) most of their players are dirty and cheaters, knowing referees will let them get away with it
3) most people could not give a fuck about either club
4) they both play in red, the colour of wickedness and alchemy
5) they are full of funny looking players from foreign countries that we have been at war with for centuries. It still sickens me that arsenal are allowed to have a german goalkeeper. And what about the french ones; liberty, equality and fraternity my arse.  
6) There is evidence to suggest both clubs are involved in ritualised rape and baby eating. Also the players develop novel electronic products  sold at prices too high for british manufacturing, thus widening the economic gap between Britian and Europe.
7) bastards
8) cunts


Manchester City fan by any chance?

fanny splendid

Quote from: "Borboski"Manure

Hah, it's a FALLACY!

Peking O

In a weird way, Man Utd's approach to this game was a compliment to Arsenal. They knew they had no chance of matching them for skill, so just went about the game by trying to kick everything that moved off the park. Hopefully Utd won't win the title this year, if they do it will set English football back about 10 years.

swinny

Quote from: "Borboski"...lots of Arsenal biassed retoric...

Again, as a neutral I find this all bemusing. "The best team ever" gets beaten by a team who deserved and wanted it more on the day, and who had a few lucky breaks from an admitedly crap ref who could and probably should have been more severe with players from BOTH teams...but lets have some perspective here...Arsenal lost, in my opinion to a fairly reasonable penalty shout - as I said before, stick your leg out in the box when you've been passed and what do you expect? Smacks of double-standards when Rooney is lambasted for something (shit as it is) that every striker in the world has had trained into them over the past 10 years...if Sol Campbell really is the great defender that Arsenal fans claim him to be, then why is he making school-boy errors like that that any striker (Man Utd or otherwise - Mr. Pires!) is going to do his best to exploit?

I think the Arsenal players reaction to the second goal is key - for once its them who get taken apart by a well worked counter-attack as they chase the game, and Smith and Rooney link up well to convert the opportunity...and what do Arsenal do? rant and rave at the ref and linesman for a few minutes claiming he was offside when he was on-side by a fucking mile!

You got beat, and Van Nistelroy is being dealt with by the FA for a shocking challenge on Cole...fucking deal with it you arrogant arses.

Beagle 2

Quote from: "Boborski"went on a bit

Come on, Arsenal lost a match, sure there was a couple of iffy decisions but they didn't play well anyway. Happens every week, especially at Old Trafford. They just forgot what it was like and made themselves look like silly little toddlers with the pea throwing and tedious pissing and moaning. This kind of getting all wound up and thcreaming "its not fair" until you're thick will set them off on another poor run like after the Everton loss again. I fucking hope.

Sick to death of it I was, Arsenal this and Arsenal that... the worst thing was they deserved the praise but you were expected to enjoy it. Why? What affiliation do I have with them? Well you've lost now. Ha.

edit: heh, didn't see the reply above, Now I feel like martin keown joining in a gang assault on a VW.

Borboski

Like I say, for the neutral I think it's a good story - it's entertainment, and that's what footballs all about.   But I think you can appreciate it's galling - and fair do's, teams get robbed every week, but I think you can appreciate that the particular way of getting beaten is just, well, unfair - and doesn't do much good for the game - I don't want handbags next time we play them buts that what will happen. Fergie seemed to want to escalate it and always does - by the by with the purchase of Smith and Rooney seems to be trying to fill the team with aggressive cunts.

It's just the combination of a kickemoffapark attitude AND the ref letting them get away with it. Fair enough if it had just been them getting stuck in their and getting the better of us.

Fair enough though, its over now, and there's no point going on about it.  It's more that I wanted point out just how bad the refereeing and Man U attitude was, and say - well if I was Man U fan I wouldn't be gloating about it - I'd be chuffed with the 3 points but much more concerned that the players can get motivated for Arsenal but not for Norwich/Blackburn.

swinny

Quote from: "Borboski"It's just the combination of a kickemoffapark attitude AND the ref letting them get away with it.

I'd say messrs. Viera and Edu did just as much kicking  and niggling as any of the Man Utd players - and the Ref let them get away with it as well. The Ref/Linesman proved their ineptitude by letting that Van Nistelroy tackle go unnoticed, and rightly so the FA are now dealing with it - so it won't go unpunished.

Other than that I can't honestly say I saw a challenge from either side that really warrants all this "dirty bastards" rubbish being flung about - both sides got stuck into some pretty rash and ill-judged challenges that any other Ref. might have called up, its just unfortunate Riley decided to play it cautious and made a total cock-up of it. 6 of 1, half dozen of t'other.

ps...nothing personal Borborski, I can see where you are coming from in not wanting to loe in such a way, I know if it was Oxford losing like that (rather than just being shit) then I'd be just as pissed off...Just a little annoyed at this whole "Love Arsenal, Hate Man United" thing that seems to be going on for various reasons.

Borboski

Yes i can't claim to be completely objective on this matter...

qki

I can't quite believe how much has been made of this match (I don't mean on here, but in the press, and by both teams). I know it was a big game, but it's over, Man United won and Arsenal are still top. Various decisions may have been dodgy, but for fuck's sake my team lose all the cunting time; sometimes it's fair & sometimes we're robbed but either way you don't see the kind of hysterical whining and desperate attempts to blame anyone and anything other than the players that we've seen here. Any legitimate claim Arsenal may have that they were cheated is completely negated by their pathetic reaction to events. They've forgotten what it's like to lose, and they can't cope with it at all.

Oh, and United can fuck off as well. Cheating cunts. Lovely second goal though.

chand

Quote from: "Borboski"For christ sakes I can't believe that statement "Eh swings and roundabouts, knowarramean". Fucking hell.

QuoteManure

Yes, I do apologise for not bringing this level of debate to the table. YOU SAID MANURE LOL!

Perhaps I should have put a winking smiley after 'swings and roundabouts', I'm aware it's a cliché, I don't believe these things even themselves out or whatever. But it's nice as a United fan to enjoy when the decisions go our way, we were fucking crucified for moaning when we went out to Porto after a goal that was actually factually onside with no room for debate was ruled off, and for years we had the reputation as whinging bastard sore losers, if the roles had been reversed Fergie would take just as much flak as Wenger is doing now.

In the interests of balance...Van Nistelrooy should be punished but in fairness to the ref I didn't even see that tackle on the first replay. But yes, he broke the rules and should receive the appropriate punishment. Not sure how much he meant it but he went over the ball and that's dangerous so he was in the wrong.

So yeah, we got a dubious penalty but we also didn't get one later which most referees I think would have given. Yes, I know there's the Back To The Future argument about how every little change makes the rest of the game different, but it's not much value in debating anything that happens after the first mildly contentious free-kick/corner/throw of the game is awarded. Kolo Toure also dived in the box but failed to get a penalty.

Also, the thing about Riley does ignore the fact that he gave Liverpool a contentious penalty at OT last season, the first to be given here since Ruel Fox in 1993.

QuoteFergie seemed to want to escalate it and always does - by the by with the purchase of Smith and Rooney seems to be trying to fill the team with aggressive cunts.

Yeah, but Smith didn't do anything wrong did he? He played very well when he came on, made some good clean tackles, set up a goal and kept the ball.

Quote from: "Peking O"Hopefully Utd won't win the title this year, if they do it will set English football back about 10 years.

Hehe, ten years ago United were playing fucking beatutiful football, the 93/4 season our team played probably the finest stuff I've seen them play, that includes the Treble season. We're not as pretty at the moment, of course, but we're not fucking mugs. Arsenal right now are a great team who can outpass anyone, what United do is play to our strengths. So, when you play against a team averaging four goals a game with their pretty passing you put pressure on them and defend, which I thought we did rather well. And our second goal was quite nice, rather Arsenal-esque, I thought. ;-)

phes

Quote from: "Borboski"

On and Pires did not "dive" against Portsmouth, this is a mistake that people are reproducing, anyone who watched the game can see there was serious, genuine contact, enough to impede him. He went down easy, but it wasn't the same as the type of thing Ronaldo did when he turned up here, or Rooney,  who was a little cunt from start to finish

That's just not true. I have a huge amount of respect for Arsenal, and Pires is a great player. But I don't think that I'm biassed in saying that he changed the course of his run, and deliberately moved his foot into a rather unusual position just so as he could wrap it around the foot of a player who was toying with the idea of making a tackle. Watch it again, it's simply embarrassing. I guess I'm still a little touchy about this, probably because at the time it happenend, come the end of the season, those two points looked like they could be the difference between staying up and being relegated. As it was, they weren't crucial, Pires has not played at Fratton Park since.
I see Sunday as a kind of justice in this context, otherwise I'm inclined to think that this is another good example of why we should be introducing video evidence for crucial incidents like fouls and in/out line calls ( and not wether a player is two fucking inches offside or not.  That IS a pathetic excuse to give for losing ).

fanny splendid

Quote from: "phes"Pires has not played at Fratton Park since.

Ooh, poor thing. I bet he's beside himself with worry...

phes

Indeed, last thing i heard he was falling over himself to get his name on the teamsheet.

fanny splendid

Yeah, but no better place to play than Fratton Park!

phes



I believe it comes highly reccommended.

fanny splendid

Is that one of the ones which came free with a Happy Meal?

phes