Shaun Ryder- godlike genius or a complete cock?

[Blue Jam]

I know there's a thread on this in General Discussion, but having just seen BBC3's Shaun Ryder- The Ecstasy and the Agony, I'm still undecided on the question above. I've been amused by some of his utterances ("What do you intend to do with these [illegal porn magazines], Mister Ryder?" "WANK!"*) and somewhat less amused by others ("What do you say to a woman with two black eyes? Nothing- you've already told her twice"**). I was a fan of Black Grape for pretty much the whole of their career, and discovered the Happy Mondays' stuff through them, and when I saw the Happy Mondays supporting Oasis at Wembley Stadium, they were better than the headline act, but I know Mister Ryder isn't always on such good form and can somethimes be embarrassing.

So is he a genius or an arse (and don't say "he's a geni-arse"- Steve Coogan's already said that about Tony "Anthony" Wilson, who definitely is an arse if you ask me)?

Either way, don't you think that the health food value of a fruit smoothie is somewhat reduced by the addition of three-quarters of a bottle of vodka?

*During a chat with HM Customs and Excise after a visit to Amsterdam
** From a Radio 1interview that drew many complaints from listeners

[blue jammer]

Complete cock, or rather cunt.

As I said in the other thread, I loathe the man, and am really surprised he's still alive, after his last interview I saw, where he was yellow and shaking like a spaz.

[Neil]

* BUMP *

This show will be on BBC3 again at 11.

[phes]

I met him early Black Grape era ( We used to bunk through the fire escape to a backstage room) He was a spaz. God damn that boy wrote some rootin, tootin lyrics though.

[poison popcorn]

seems like more of a cock than a genius. he's clearly a shadow of whatever the hell his former self was, a shadow of a rampant drug ravaged monster? it was embarrassing watching him trying to show off and play up for the camera. poor  guy, seems to have lost everything and is clinging to hellraiser image or something.
bez seemed pretty fucked too.
the happy mondays stuff was pretty good though.

[Partridge's Love Child]

Er, am allowed to suggest that he's somewhere in the middle.  I certainly don't think he's a genius, but as phes says, he's written some blindingly good records in his time.  The Happy Mondays reunion however was nobbut an embarassment, watching a wrinkled Ryder shout and shake his way through The Boys Are Back In Town was awful.  I notice they're doing a one-off park gig in a few weeks.  I shalln't be going.

I still have an article somewhere that Ryder wrote for Vox, which was essentially You Know Who I Fancy.  It was just about the dirtiest, rudest and most offensively sexist thing I've ever read.  It was also blindingly funny, and I wish I knew where it was to stick it on here.

[benthalo]

Glad to see the eyes are to the right.

I was once in a deserted pub on Deansgate - one of those rubbish theme ones with sawdust on the floor - killing time before meeting friends for a Durutti Column gig. There was just me, the landlord and a between-Grape-and-Mondays Shaun Ryder, not looking his best.

He kept 'stepping out of the building' whenever his phone went off, which was very often. After a while, I finished my paper and aimed for the door, only to get trapped in the entrance between an old man sticking up posters with his pitbull, and bubbly Shaun Ryder. There was a very nasty atmosphere by now.

I still wake up in the night screaming.

Generally, many a good song over the years - most of Bummed for starters - but nothing special for about a decade. He's seemed desperately lost for rather too long, but when he has the muse, his work is fine.

Hateful man though - hello, the homophobic stuff they said to Swells, hello, the music press culture which fosters personalities like him. For that reason alone: cock.

[Peking O]

Generally, many a good song over the years - most of Bummed for starters...

In a weak attempt to link to the vinyl thread, did anyone else buy a copy of Bummed and have their eyes pop out of their head when they pulled out the inner sleeve? But yes, some good tunes, but mainly a total cock for the reasons benthalo has outlined in his last paragraph.

[Peking O]

I know there's a thread on this in General Discussion...

Can someone link me to this thread because I can't seem to see it in General Discussion. Sorry for being thick and that.

[5 Knuckle Shuffle]

I know there's a thread on this in General Discussion...

Can someone link me to this thread because I can't seem to see it in General Discussion. Sorry for being thick and that.

Well I seem to have pulled up a few threads and I'm not entirely sure which one BJ is on about, but it could be this:

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=479&highlight=shaun+ryder

[Hornet]

First Black Grape album is fucking brilliant, but he is still a cock.

[Peking O]

Well I seem to have pulled up a few threads and I'm not entirely sure which one BJ is on about, but it could be this:

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=479&highlight=shaun+ryder

Ahhh got it, this is an old thread bumped up. Totally missed that. Boy this dunces cap is a nice fit, I'll be wearing it for a while.

[TraceyQ]

The man is a poet, seriously. Imagine how he could have been with an education behind him.

He's also an agressive ex-junkie and a sad figure of a man.

[weekender]

I was about to post the same sentiments.

Musically, I think Ryder has shown that he's a great lyricist with an ear for a great tune.

Non-musically, he does come across as a 'bad egg'.  

Is it morbid of me to ask who will die first, him or Bez?  Both have looked pretty fucked whenever I've seen them on television over the past couple of years...

[Tom Pynchon's Photo]

Generally, many a good song over the years - most of Bummed for starters...

In a weak attempt to link to the vinyl thread, did anyone else buy a copy of Bummed and have their eyes pop out of their head when they pulled out the inner sleeve? But yes, some good tunes, but mainly a total cock for the reasons benthalo has outlined in his last paragraph.

As a young waif  I went to my local HMV to buy this record the week it was released. In the days of vinyl the records sleeves were in the shops racks, the record was kept secure behind serving counters.

I went up to the counter with the sleeve for Bummed - the lovely girl behind the counter took my request and smiled with approval:  clearly impressed with  my choice and me.

And then found the inner  sleeve for Bummed -consisting of two out-of-focus tacky seventies porn photos consisting of a fat bird with a shaven twat/

To paraphrase Joe Jackson - if looks could kill I was then a man who was then dead.  that girl went from being flirty to me to complete contempt within a second. As if I knew the inner sleeve was what it was (I did actually, I had had a quick sneak at the CD version -I just didn't think anyone would find it anything other than funny)

I earler tried to look at that inner sleeve to Bummer earlier. Couldn't get it out of the outer sleeve  for some reason: it's as though glue has stuck it in.

[Peking O]

As a young waif  I went to my local HMV to buy this record the week it was released. In the days of vinyl the records sleeves were in the shops racks, the record was kept secure behind serving counters.

When I was at University I worked part-time in a record shop that had a similar system. We'd keep all the inner sleeves of vinyl releases in white covers behind the counter, all of which had a hole in the middle the same size as the record label. If I remember correctly, this hole perfectly framed one of the shaved twats from the Bummed inner-sleeve.

I earler tried to look at that inner sleeve to Bummer earlier.

Heh, you must have been over-excited - spelling errors, repeated words, album titles wrong, you're a mess man!

[Ghost of Troubled Joe]

He's a godlike genius lyricist...nobody writes lyrics, or indeed sings them, like Shaun Ryder.

I couldn't give a toss about what he's like in real life- it's the music wot matters, maaan.

[phes]

He's a godlike genius lyricist...nobody writes lyrics, or indeed sings them, like Shaun Ryder.

I couldn't give a toss about what he's like in real life- it's the music wot matters, maaan.

That's fair enough, and he's obviously a gobshite. But it is still dissapointing when someone you respect, artisticly, opens their mouth and turns out to be a wanker.

[benthalo]

He's a godlike genius lyricist...nobody writes lyrics, or indeed sings them, like Shaun Ryder.

*Mark E Smith shakes fist*

No, fair enough, but nothing's impressed me since the first Black Grape album.

England's Irie is the worst record ever made, isn't it? Must be.

[dan dirty ape]

I'd forgotten all about 'England's Irie'. 'I'm spectating and my wife's lactating...it's a fottball thing.'  Pah. That might have been one of Keith Allen's though.

He's very definitely not a nice fella, but that goes for a lot of musicians I like from Bob Dylan to Biggie Smalls. I agree with TraceyQ, the guy deserves to be judged up with there with the lyrical greats when he was on form.  Long term artistic decline and generally being a dick seem to have put paid to that though.