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Oscar race row

Started by mr. logic, January 21, 2016, 04:53:30 PM

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mr. logic

Pressure now on Chris Rock to withdraw from hosting.  He can't not do that really can he?  It would just seem incredibly awkward given the nature of the complaint to have the only black person in attendance working in a court jester capacity.

Story's getting bigger.  What do we reckon?

The argument is weakened somewhat by not actually presenting 'worthy' nominees. However in what is a weak year for 'great' performances and films you could argue that the likes of Michael B. Jordan and Will Smith could count themselves unlucky not to be nominated. In Jordan's case particularly as his co-star Sly Stallone has got a nomination. I cringed quite a bit during 'Concussion' because although Will Smith gave it a lot of heart, his accent was terrible.

Rock's hosting and opening monologue could be riveting telly because of the row.

Sam

I agree. Using the hosting as a way to tackle the issue will be more powerful than pulling out. He's got a platform (literally) so he should use it.

Famous Mortimer

I imagine his people are negotiating him some sort of "say whatever you like" deal in order to keep him participating.


biggytitbo

Maybe the black ones just aren't very good this year?


Or it reflects the lack of good parts and films from a black perspective and it's a bit silly to blame the academy awards when it's clearly a wider problem with media and the film industry.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Practically the academy could scrap Best Foreign Language film and start frequently giving awards to global cinema rather than Hollywood, which would automatically create diversity and actually install an objective, inclusive system.

But that won't happen. The problem isn't so much that the Academy is racist but that it is embedded in the Hollywood system that markets films at people who pay money to see Hollywood films regularly - these people are disproportionately comparatively wealthy white people. They won't change because they represent and are a marketing tool for that system, and will always only ever pay lip service and tokenism to unprofitable areas of the market.



BlodwynPig

There are only 2 black actors so this seems like over-reaching. I mean who wants to see Keanu Reeves winning every year.

Old Nehamkin

I can't wait to see Tim Heidecker attempting to get to the bottom of the issue on this year's On Cinema Oscar Special.

Steven

Quote from: BlodwynPig on January 21, 2016, 05:58:13 PM
There are only 2 black actors so this seems like over-reaching.

Him and Laurence L. Fishburne are very good though.

Samuel Jackson is so bloody decadent having that middle initial as well, fuck making me redudently repeat the last syllable of your name every time Samuelel.

hewantstolurkatad

Quote from: biggytitbo on January 21, 2016, 05:52:51 PM
Maybe the black ones just aren't very good this year?

Or it reflects the lack of good parts and films from a black perspective and it's a bit silly to blame the academy awards when it's clearly a wider problem with media and the film industry.
Both of these points seem to hold up, shite like the Danish Girl really shouldn't be getting nominations but is Michael B Jordan getting a nomination purely because he was just about the only noteworthy black lead in anything at all good much of a solution to anything?

I don't think Spike Lee was specifically targeting the Oscars with this either. Somewhat unfortunate timing on his end though, with it being the first time in years and years that he's made anything which could've gotten some nomination or another.

Bhazor

#11
Will Smith in Concussion. A performance so bad it has made me racist. I mean I don't want to join the KKK or anything but if that is the only way to stop this endless stream of fucking worthy Will Smith vehicles (After Earth, 7 Pounds, Pursuit of Happyness). Fucking sign me up and pass me the lighter.

So all that stuff last year about 12 Years a Slave doesn't count then? Totally forgotten. The whole industry is still super duper racist. Because they aren't giving Will Smith an award for this performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io6hPdC41RM

Who am I? I am Mr TEEL DAH TROOF

Oh and 12 Years a Slave was shite too. I thought it was an open secret at this point that Oscars are as useful a metric of quality as being selected for Richard and Judy's book club. Like an IQ test only shows how good you are at taking an IQ test. Winning an Oscar only shows that you can make a film that can win an Oscar.




Johnny Textface


Steven

Quote from: Johnny Textface on January 21, 2016, 08:50:26 PM
So they want a token?

I usually get one of these when going in to see a film.

Noodle Lizard

It is possibly the most ridiculous bit of fake outrage I've seen recently.  Like someone mentioned, nobody's really presented them with some worthy nominees that were somehow snubbed this year.  Michael B. Jordan for Creed maybe, I dunno, I didn't watch it.  And this isn't me being uncynical about Hollywood or the Academy, in fact I think I take the more cynical stance that they'd actually love to give awards to black (or other minority) people for the sake of their own public image.  But who else could they give it to from last year?  Will Smith in that film nobody saw?  Ice Cube's son?  The African-American Film Critics Association gave Best Picture to Straight Outta Compton this year, should the Academy members have also made such a desperate vote?

Also, boycotting an event held by an organisation which is currently under the presidency of a black woman, is being hosted by a famous black actor and which, a few years ago, gave Best Picture to a film about the horrors of slavery written and directed by black people?  Seems like you could pick your targets better, doesn't it?  Besides, "The Academy" isn't just some omnipotent Hollywood entity, it's comprised entirely of nearly 6000 individual industry professionals, including many of the famous actors complaining about the lack of diversity.  I bet most of them didn't vote for any black actors themselves - not because they're evil racists who, this year, suddenly decided not to, but because there weren't very many viable options.

tl;dr - Nah, don't think the Oscars are racist.  It's an absurd statement to make in the first place.  Could the industry as a whole be more diverse?  Possibly.  But it's not an industry run by ideology, it's an industry run by what sells tickets.  So really it's the audience's fault, yeah?

Noodle Lizard

Also what this means is we're going to get a bunch of embarrassing, pandering speeches from some winners, which'll make an already-painful ceremony all that much worse.  Brilliant.

My money's on Leonardo DiCaprio throwing up the Black Power sign.

Nobody Soup

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on January 21, 2016, 09:48:40 PM

tl;dr - Nah, don't think the Oscars are racist.  It's an absurd statement to make in the first place.  Could the industry as a whole be more diverse?  Possibly.  But it's not an industry run by ideology, it's an industry run by what sells tickets.  So really it's the audience's fault, yeah?

no, I don't buy this argument at all. what sells is what studios cram down peoples throats by pumping absurd amounts of money into promotion. yeah, they probably feel sticking white actors as the stars of everything is a safer bet but that's just going round in circles. they think white actors have always sold well so they'll only continue to back them, hence legit complaints about lack of opportunities.

Noodle Lizard

Thought the Nathan Barley "yeah?" at the end implied I wasn't serious.  Point is, it's far too simplistic to blame the Oscars or accuse "them" of racism.

Someone black will definitely win Best Actor next year because of all this.

dark now my pies

Quote from: thecuriousorange on January 21, 2016, 10:55:38 PM
Someone black will definitely win Best Actor next year because of all this.

Let's hope there's a cock up which lets Jack Black win it instead. (I suppose it will have to be the biggest of all cock ups)

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

What if no white people win next year, but no black people do either?

biggytitbo

Remeber the other Oscar race row surrounding Chariots of Fire?

Bhazor

Funny no one mentioned Alejandro Innaritu's The Revanant being nominated for best picture and best director. Or indeed the slew of nominations it's recieved across six categories. But you know, I guess South American's don't count. I mean clearly he doesn't pass the brown paper bag test which is the basic bar of entry.

Likewise those european and russian nominees overcoming a language barrier to be nominated. Clearly not black. So fuck em they don't count.

rjd2

Quote from: Bhazor on January 21, 2016, 06:14:39 PM
Will Smith in Concussion. A performance so bad it has made me racist. I mean I don't want to join the KKK or anything but if that is the only way to stop this endless stream of fucking worthy Will Smith vehicles (After Earth, 7 Pounds, Pursuit of Happyness). Fucking sign me up and pass me the lighter.

So all that stuff last year about 12 Years a Slave doesn't count then? Totally forgotten. The whole industry is still super duper racist. Because they aren't giving Will Smith an award for this performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io6hPdC41RM

Who am I? I am Mr TEEL DAH TROOF

Oh and 12 Years a Slave was shite too. I thought it was an open secret at this point that Oscars are as useful a metric of quality as being selected for Richard and Judy's book club. Like an IQ test only shows how good you are at taking an IQ test. Winning an Oscar only shows that you can make a film that can win an Oscar.


Yeah see your point. Looking at the people who have been supposedly wronged and its the same names that pop up, Elba, that NWA film, the new Spike Lee film, Tangerine and that Fast and Furious song.

Elba probably deserved a nomination for Beasts, the NWA film was passable, but forgettable enough and that is from someone who loved NWA. I haven't seen the Spike Lee film so can't comment, Tangerine was awesome, but would have been ignored even if they had 2 whites in the lead roles, it just is something that would never get Oscar recognition ever sadly no matter who was in the voting panel.

Then you are left with Wiz for the Fast and Furious song. Its well meaning, and it was absolute huge last year, heck 1 billion views is amazing, but it's absolute tedious dirge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgKAFK5djSk




Urinal Cake

Quote from: thecuriousorange on January 21, 2016, 10:55:38 PM
Someone black will definitely win Best Actor next year because of all this.
Denzel Washington and Training Day pt 2.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: rjd2 on January 21, 2016, 11:27:44 PM
Elba probably deserved a nomination for Beasts

I'm sure Beasts' total lack of nominations has more to do with it being a Netflix film than anything else.  Even though it's clearly a proper film and even got a theatrical release, I'm not sure if the Academy really considers Netflix films as a viable option yet outside of documentary nominations, since it kind of undermines the traditional studio model Hollywood is based on.  Give it a year or two, maybe, and I'm sure it'll be much more acceptable.

The SAG Awards and the Globes both nominated Elba and the rest of the cast.

newbridge

I can think of no greater emblem of white racism than the Academy pretending that Leonardo DiCaprio is a good actor.

newbridge

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on January 21, 2016, 09:48:40 PM
tl;dr - Nah, don't think the Oscars are racist.  It's an absurd statement to make in the first place.  Could the industry as a whole be more diverse?  Possibly.  But it's not an industry run by ideology, it's an industry run by what sells tickets.  So really it's the audience's fault, yeah?

Don't you live in Hollywood? So you presumably know the type of people that end up being part of the Academy. And you don't think they are racist???

I don't care about the stupid award show though, and this controversy is further neoliberal co-option of racial injustice. Fuck off Will Smith.

Steven

Point is a lot of cinematic protagonists are predicated on living vicariously, the audience want too see an avatar of themselves  experiencing life or overcoming odds. Therefore white males, white women, black men, black women, gay men, gay women, other audiences tend to gravitate to films which embody a protagonist which defines themselves. The larger share of audience is probably white men and women therefore it's simple economics and Noodles is prolly right, yeah?

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: newbridge on January 21, 2016, 11:53:17 PM
Don't you live in Hollywood? So you presumably know the type of people that end up being part of the Academy. And you don't think they are racist???

Living in Hollywood isn't the same as being "in Hollywood", of course.  I only have experience in the TV industry (and the comedy scene, to a lesser extent), but I'm a BAFTA member myself and have met many Academy members, as well as knowing the creative producer of this year's Oscars.  None of them have come across as racist to me, but then why would they?  It's not something you can casually bandy around without consequence.

Regardless, I said I didn't think "the Oscars" are racist, because that makes no sense.  It's imbuing a personal prejudice onto an inanimate awards ceremony comprised of thousands of voters, which can only follow a general zeitgeist based on what films were popular in the past year.  So it's either indicative of a wider problem or it's just coincidental that there weren't many popular black-led films this year.  At worst it's racism of omission when casting these films, but look at the Best Actor noms and wonder if any of those characters could reasonably be black:

Leonardo DiCaprio - no, based on a real person
Brian Cranston - no, based on a real person
Michael Fassbender - no, based on a real person
Eddie Redmayne - no, based on a real person
Matt Damon - possibly

I suppose you could argue that there should be more films either based on real black characters (like Concussion, though it was apparently shite) or more black actors should be cast in non-fiction roles, but I'd generally prefer screenwriters to write the characters the way they see fit as opposed to trying to appease people.  I know if I wrote a script the characters would be predominantly white because that's what I know.

So then the argument goes to:  "Well, we need more black screenwriters".  Fair enough, they're certainly underrepresented, but you can't just become a professional screenwriter, so then it goes "Well, we need more black people in charge of studios".  Right, but you can't assign someone a job being in control of billions of dollars just based on their ethnicity, you have to work your way up.  "Well, then we need more black people in entry-level jobs in the industry".  Sure, but there aren't as many black people going for those jobs in the first place.  "Right, so we need more black people in TV/film school".  Okay, but how do you do that without forcing them into it?  "Well, we need to change society as a whole" - BINGO.  "But that'll take ages".  Yes, I imagine it will.  "Fuck it, just blame the Oscars."