Oscar race row

[Dr Rock]

I thought Elba was ineligible anyway as it came out on Netflix first or at the same time as its cinema release

I think he's speaks very well!

[phantom_power]

Isn't the main problem that the Oscars, or the people who vote, are being a bit tone deaf about the endemic racism in Hollywood and not protecting themselves from those claims. That Jordan is not up for an award and Stallone is is a bit silly for a start

[samadriel]

https://youtu.be/XebG4TO_xss
"Buenos Noches."

[Noodle Lizard]

Isn't the main problem that the Oscars, or the people who vote, are being a bit tone deaf about the endemic racism in Hollywood and not protecting themselves from those claims. That Jordan is not up for an award and Stallone is is a bit silly for a start

Is it?  I haven't seen the film yet, but I'd assume the thinking goes that Stallone is very popular, as well as something of a Hollywood treasure who may not make many more (good) films, as well as it being a navel-gazing reprise of his performance in the Best Picture-winning original.  The Oscars love that sort of thing.  I'd be amazed if he didn't win.

Keep in mind also, Michael B. Jordan would have been up for Best Actor rather than Stallone's Supporting, which'd mean knocking out one of the other five.  There's a good chance he was high in the running, but he was never likely to beat DiCaprio, Redmayne, Fassbender etc. to the list with "those" kinds of roles.  Mind you, as much as I love Bryan Cranston, he really shouldn't have been nominated, and I suspect the same of Eddie Redmayne.  They may as well just give it to Leo now anyway, the other nominees are barely relevant[nb]for what it's worth, I'm not really rooting for anyone or anything this year - I think it's a bit of a rubbish one[/nb].

Obviously I'm only defending decisions to exclude black actors to keep relevant, but the same argument goes for countless white actors or films which were snubbed as well.  In each case I've considered, there's always a more nuanced explanation than just "racist".  It seems like a bit of a lazy argument which doesn't go to any lengths to address the problem.

I think to start with "the endemic racism in Hollywood" is kind of begging the question[nb]see my previous posts about the demographics within the industry[/nb].  The line of reasoning with all this stops at "Who should have been nominated that wasn't?"  Even accepting that Beasts Of No Nation was eligible and that Michael B. Jordan gave a Best Actor-worthy performance, the answer is still "two people"[nb]Yes, I'm deliberately ignoring Will Smith[/nb].

Thaaaat beeeeing saaaaaid, I do think the Academy membership does need to change.  Not because of racism, but because a significant number of its voters are simply too old[nb]a result of needing a fairly distinguished career in the entertainment industry to become a member in the first place[/nb] to be expected to have their finger on the pulse, and therefore deciding not to vote for (or even watch) films which really weren't aimed at them in the first place.  This just contributes to stagnation within the industry.  There's a long-running lack of diversity in the types of films represented more than anything else.

[phantom_power]

I am not saying there were that many options. I tend to agree with you that the main problem is not with the Oscars but with Hollywood and society as a whole. What I was suggesting that was that the voters could have protected themselves by voting for the odd black person here or there. For instance it might not have been a great idea that the only people nominated for Straight Outta Compton, the blackest of black films, were the white screenwriters.

Obviously this all precludes the fact that the voters aren't a homogeneous hive mind but you would have hoped that enough of them might have seen this coming.

You would have thought that Ryan Coogler would be a good shout for a nomination as well as Creed was praised a lot for its fight scene direction.

And of course Benedict Wong was completely overlooked for his work in The Martian

[Noodle Lizard]

I am not saying there were that many options. I tend to agree with you that the main problem is not with the Oscars but with Hollywood and society as a whole. What I was suggesting that was that the voters could have protected themselves by voting for the odd black person here or there. For instance it might not have been a great idea that the only people nominated for Straight Outta Compton, the blackest of black films, were the white screenwriters.

But that's the very definition of tokenism, and would be far more self-serving than anything else they're accused of.  It feeds into my other point about a lot of the Academy membership being too old to appreciate the merits of films not aimed at them, but at the same time I really don't think Straight Outta Compton's a good enough film to warrant accolades (especially not the screenplay - dunno, what they're thinking).

You would have thought that Ryan Coogler would be a good shout for a nomination as well as Creed was praised a lot for its fight scene direction.

I haven't seen the film, so I couldn't say.  I think it's definitely quite a weak year for Director nominees though, so that could well be a notable omission.  EDIT: Fuck me, he's only 29, that's quite amazing.

And of course Benedict Wong was completely overlooked for his work in The Martian

I didn't think he was particularly good, but nothing about that movie was[nb]I can't overstate that while I may be defending some snubs, the selection we ended up with isn't a good one either[/nb].  Regardless, I don't remember the last time an Asian was nominated for Best Actor/Actress.  There don't seem to be many significant roles given to Asian-Americans/-Europeans that don't involve comedy or martial arts, really.  I think they really are the most overlooked ethnic minority in cinema, but it may be assuaged by the fact that Asian countries like Japan and Good Korea have internationally-acknowledged film industries of their own.  As far as Asian-Americans in the entertainment industry go, in my experience they tend to occupy technical jobs behind the camera moreso than in front of it.  I don't know if there's any particular reason for that.

[phantom_power]

I was only joking about Wong.

It is tokenism but if they had done that then no-one would really have complained and they wouldn't be being accused of racism. Obviously in the long term and to solve the problem at hand it is better that this issue comes to light, however misguided the target of the rage is. There IS a problem with black roles in Hollywood, both in front of and behind the camera, which is made worse by getting white actors to play some of the few parts that there are (Emma Stone in Aloha for instance).

[Glebe]

Al Sharpton to protest lack of diversity with rally near Oscars ceremony.

[Noodle Lizard]

There IS a problem with black roles in Hollywood, both in front of and behind the camera, which is made worse by getting white actors to play some of the few parts that there are (Emma Stone in Aloha for instance).

She was meant to be Hawaiian/Chinese, but still.

Tokenism never works out, though, it's possibly the least effective way to deal with the issue because it convinces daft people that there isn't one whilst doing nothing to actually address it.  And I guarantee you, as a result of this Oscar race row, nothing will be done about it except - as you said - the Academy might feel pressured to nominate more black actors next year whether or not the roles/performances deserved it, just to take the heat off.  That's no solution, to me.

As for behind-the-scenes jobs (which, ultimately, influences who's in front of the camera) I really think it starts right at the bottom - before film school.  I bet a lot of minorities, especially from lower-income backgrounds, are never really exposed to the idea of screenwriting or directing being a viable career option - which it kind of isn't, for a lot of them, because all the film schools anyone would pay attention to are expensive as fuck[nb]around $50k for a BA, but most of the good jobs require either an MA (around $80k) or equivalent experience (6 years in the industry)[/nb].  This is why I find it especially irritating that it's a USC study pointing the finger when the very existence of their film school helps to make sure people from low-income families (of all races) have very little chance of getting jobs in the industry unless they do it on their own (which, itself, requires money and time most people don't have).

Then again, Ryan Coogler did come from USC, but he was also a private school kid from a wealthy family.  Put it this way, there's no way I'd even have my fairly low-profile job in the TV industry if I didn't have the right connections and a family willing to support me while I did a lot of unpaid work[nb]and there's still a chance it could all go tits up as the industry changes - when I worked in Oddbins one summer, my manager used to be a senior producer at MTV[/nb].  It's a pretty tough industry to break into and kind of by necessity since, more and more, a lot of people want to be part of it.  What an institution like USC could do, instead of yelling at Hollywood, is to offer more scholarships to low-income students to give them more of a chance.  But they won't, because they'd lose some money.

[Noodle Lizard]

Sorry, I'm so fucking boring.

[phantom_power]

Tokenism never works out, though, it's possibly the least effective way to deal with the issue because it convinces daft people that there isn't one whilst doing nothing to actually address it.  And I guarantee you, as a result of this Oscar race row, nothing will be done about it except - as you said - the Academy might feel pressured to nominate more black actors next year whether or not the roles/performances deserved it, just to take the heat off.  That's no solution, to me.

I am not sure tokenism is necessarily the solution either but I don't think it is worthless. Part of the cause for black, hispanic or asian people not choosing film making as a career is that they don't see it is viable or worthwhile. Having someone that "represents" them, for want of a better word, winning an Oscar or being nominated could be the inspiration and role model that young kids need to start out on that long road to success.