Oscar race row

[checkoutgirl]

Point is, it's far too simplistic to blame the Oscars or accuse "them" of racism.

While that is true, changing opinions towards diversity often does seem simplistic and unfair at the time because the people doing it pick famous targets as a short cut to change. So they've picked the Oscars and for some reason it's caught on this time and has big press. Somebody has to be paying attention for stuff like this to work. Although ironically it seems like they've picked a bad year for this argument to come to the fore. Precious little in terms of quality black acting jobs this year for some reason.

I think that while black actors might not get all the plum roles, Will Smith has done them no favours with his terrible acting and string of shitty films. Likewise the likes of Ice Cube and break out star Kevin Hart do absolutely nothing to further the cause of excellence in film making by African Americans. We get it, black people can do bad comedy just as poorly as white people. We've known that for years thanks to the likes of Martin Lawrence and (god help us) the Wayans/Tyler Perry. Are black people supposed to look at them as role models in award winning serious acting?

Maybe all Kevin Hart can get is shitty buddy cop film after shitty buddy cop film but it's hardly going to trouble the Academy short lists. And I'd say he could probably get better roles if he wanted. In fact I think Hart's continued success is due to positive discrimination or having a great agent or both. In fact, how can Spike Lee say Hollywood is racist when guys like Hart and Ice Cube are still getting the time of day?

12 Years a Slave shows it might just have been a slow year for African Americans in Oscar land and the more new black actors that go the Kevin Hart route the worse it's going to get.

I don't mean to be picking on Kevin Hart so much but he's one of the biggest break through African American stars in recent years and his Rotten Tomatoes profile is a horror show. He's no Chewitel Ejiofor.

[Noodle Lizard]

I think you're being a bit over-literal in an argument which is simply that the Oscars broadly define the "artistic" filmmaking climate of the following years (as well as the big box-office draws, which are often not the same group of films).  And ultimately it doesn't matter whether you think they're important or not, whether you watch the ceremony or not[nb]that only matters to the TV part of it[/nb], I'm not going to go round in circles.  But if nothing else, the Oscars gives producers/studios a reason to put money into "artistic" films which are less likely to make big money, and for that reason I'd prefer them to exist than not.  For the time being, anyway.  Without that, it really would just be a box office competition.

Also, forgetting all of that, it's a goofy ceremony which is fun to mock, place bets on etc.  I don't watch sports, so it's pretty much the only televisual event I can make a social occasion out of.  Coupled with tuning into the On Cinema Oscar Special during commercials, it's one of my favourite events of the year.

[Noodle Lizard]

Speaking of bets, anyone want to place a wager on whether or not one of the Best Actors will pull a Marlon Brando and send Kevin Hart or someone up there to collect their award?  My money's on Leo DiCaprio bringing up a Canadian inuit, but unlike Brando he'll be there by his side and will accept the award anyway.

[thecuriousorange]

Stallone should send up the star of Creed. To apologise for the new raft of sequel-remakes clogging up cinemas.

[Glebe]

Screen Guild Awards - SNL.

Chuckle!

[The Region Legion]

This is the same Oscars that gave fuck-awful cunt music "Hard Out Here For A Pimp" an award a few years ago? The same Oscars where Halle Berry embarassed herself out of a career and Denzel Washington had to come out afterwards to tell everyone to calm the fuck down about black this and black that? After himself having won Best Actor?

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

This is the same Oscars that gave fuck-awful cunt music "Hard Out Here For A Pimp" an award a few years ago? The same Oscars where Halle Berry embarassed herself out of a career and Denzel Washington had to come out afterwards to tell everyone to calm the fuck down about black this and black that? After himself having won Best Actor?

No it's a different one made from orange juice cartons.

[Tiny Poster]

Saving Private Ryan. The world's first ever war film

NL is right though, there was a trend for war films (often with US forces retconned as the heroes) after Saving Private Ryan, after a general paucity of them during the 90s. Before, the only ones of note were The English Patient and Schindler's List (also Spielberg). After, there's U-571, Engima, Pearl Harbour, The End Of The Affair, Captain Corelli's Mandolin, The Pianist and Enemy At The Gates.

[The Region Legion]

No it's a different one made from orange juice cartons.

Oh, that's OK then. It would be really silly if these people were whining about the normal Oscars being racist when it's demonstrably untrue.

[Tiny Poster]

Go on macho man - demonstrate.

[The Region Legion]

List Of Black Academy Award Winners & Nominees

[Tiny Poster]

y u no demostrate like promus?

[The Region Legion]

Sorry, you must have missed the link of all the black people who have won or been nominated for Oscars that I posted. If you clicked the blue text in the post you'd have seen it, that's how linking works on the internet.

[Tiny Poster]

I saw a link to a thing I have previously read but there was no demonstration

[The Region Legion]

Well the demonstration involves you looking at the link and extrapolating from the information given that black people have been nominated and won awards at this event much more regularly in the last 2 decades than at any previous time, which falls in line with the general social acceptance of them since the 1960s, but most particularly the 1990s, where racial equality in the United States wasn't just a law but started to become a way of life.

Of particular interest should be Best Actress In A Supporting Role, for which a black actress has won 3 out of 8 times since 2009, and Best Original Song for which a black artist has been nominated 7 out of 12 times since 2005, and won thrice. Best Picture nominations - 4 out of 8 since 2009.

Factor in the fact that there are simply less black people in this industry than there are whites and Jews and that's not a bad showing at all really.

[Tiny Poster]

Can you demonstrate using all the black nominees of note from this year? Obviously I won't ask you to name any winners as the awards haven't taken place yet.

[The Region Legion]

Can you demonstrate using all the black nominees of note from this year? Obviously I won't ask you to name any winners as the awards haven't taken place yet.

Can you demonstrate how the lack of black nominees this year is racism rather than just because there were no black people good enough to receive the award?

[Tiny Poster]

Hey, I never claimed anything was "demonstrable", casanova! Point me to where I said the Oscars were racist pls

[Small Man Big Horse]

NL is right though, there was a trend for war films (often with US forces retconned as the heroes) after Saving Private Ryan, after a general paucity of them during the 90s. Before, the only ones of note were The English Patient and Schindler's List (also Spielberg). After, there's U-571, Engima, Pearl Harbour, The End Of The Affair, Captain Corelli's Mandolin, The Pianist and Enemy At The Gates.

True, but that could be down to box office / critical acclaim as much as awards (though I'm sure they did have an effect). Whatever the case the films it led to were largely terrible, so you could argue the Oscars damage the film industry rather than enhance it.

[Noodle Lizard]

True, but that could be down to box office / critical acclaim as much as awards (though I'm sure they did have an effect). Whatever the case the films it led to were largely terrible, so you could argue the Oscars damage the film industry rather than enhance it.

Like I kept saying, it's not a science, but watching something like the Oscars is like an aggregator for the kinds of things you're likely to see in the coming years since people like to emulate films proven to be Oscar-worthy[nb]likewise, if a film is successful at the box office, you'll also get a lot of imitators in the coming years - it's less common that a film will both be a box office smash and an Oscar hit[/nb].  I never said this is a good thing, quite the opposite, but simultaneously I think the continued existence of something like the Oscars is one of the few things in the industry giving studios/producers incentive to make "artistic" films which aren't likely to make much profit (because they do, in the long-run, profit off the kind of attention Oscar recognition brings them).

[Delete Delete Delete]

Like I kept saying, it's not a science, but watching something like the Oscars is like an aggregator for the kinds of things you're likely to see in the coming years since people like to emulate films proven to be Oscar-worthy[nb]likewise, if a film is successful at the box office, you'll also get a lot of imitators in the coming years - it's less common that a film will both be a box office smash and an Oscar hit[/nb].  I never said this is a good thing, quite the opposite, but simultaneously I think the continued existence of something like the Oscars is one of the few things in the industry giving studios/producers incentive to make "artistic" films which aren't likely to make much profit (because they do, in the long-run, profit off the kind of attention Oscar recognition brings them).

I couldn't get to the Cinema last year because of all the Birdman clones that came out, knee deep.

[Noodle Lizard]

I couldn't get to the Cinema last year because of all the Birdman clones that came out, knee deep.

Like I said, the Birdman (and maybe Boyhood or Whiplash) influence will probably be seen in the next year or two.  It takes a while to get films made - the best thing is to look at when they were greenlit rather than released[nb]you'll also notice a good deal of non-blockbusters are greenlit in Spring[/nb], as any number of factors can delay a film's production/release.  But yes, I'd imagine we'll see a few more films about the arts/creative endeavours or family dramas with a twist than usual.  Or, I dunno, maybe something more tangentially-related to them.  But I'd be astonished if the influential producers active during last year's Oscar season (i.e. all of them) wouldn't have been somewhat inspired by the fact that a film like Birdman won Best Picture.

I've already noticed a fair few independent films adopting the continuous take angle recently (mostly shorts, of course), but this is more likely influenced by "indie" films like Enter The Void or Russian Ark.  Wouldn't be shocked if we got another one along those lines from Hollywood after Gravity and Birdman though.

But once again, you can believe Oscars are meaningless all you want, they don't mind.

[Tiny Poster]

Is it worth pointing out that Birdman itself is part of a trend of "takes" on the superhero genre? Whilst ostensibly being a navel-gazing story about film-making.

[Entropy Balsmalch]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-35427381

That's a can of worms right there.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

That's ridiculous. Feinnes clearly looks more like that Adam Levine.

[phantom_power]

Well the demonstration involves you looking at the link and extrapolating from the information given that black people have been nominated and won awards at this event much more regularly in the last 2 decades than at any previous time, which falls in line with the general social acceptance of them since the 1960s, but most particularly the 1990s, where racial equality in the United States wasn't just a law but started to become a way of life.

Of particular interest should be Best Actress In A Supporting Role, for which a black actress has won 3 out of 8 times since 2009, and Best Original Song for which a black artist has been nominated 7 out of 12 times since 2005, and won thrice. Best Picture nominations - 4 out of 8 since 2009.

Factor in the fact that there are simply less black people in this industry than there are whites and Jews and that's not a bad showing at all really.

Unless  you are a cinematographer, editor, director, writer, or any of the non-acting roles. But it is good that racism has been stricken from the Best Actress in a Supporting Role category,

[thecuriousorange]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-35427381

That's a can of worms right there.

No one can get annoyed at this. Show me a black actor who looks like 2001 Michael Jackson.

[Stoneage Dinosaurs]

No one can get annoyed at this. Show me a black actor who looks like 2001 Michael Jackson.

I don't think I could even show you a white actor who looks like 2001 Michael Jackson.

[Blumf]

No one can get annoyed at this. Show me a black actor who looks like 2001 Michael Jackson.

[Glebe]

Will Smith Explains His Positive Take On Oscars Race Debate - The Graham Norton Show.