Street Fighter V

[Hollow]

Just getting into it and they take the server down for 'maintenance'...well Capcom you are really impressing us here...don't they understand we don't care about their technical problems, we just want to play the game we paid for with the PS+ we paid for?

I forget I got it for free of course.

[The Region Legion]

6 hours of downtime later and now the servers are off 'till it's done, Duke Nukem Forever style.

Cracking launch gentlemen, bonuses all round!

[Shay Chaise]

All the 'bug-abuse method' of playing that Shay highlighted makes me think they need to tighten up the mechanics rather than leaving all these fraction-of-a-second windows open for people to cheese their way to victory. I mean no offence to players who do so of course, it can be impressive now and then and it behoves people who play *anything* to use every method available to succeed.

I'm not being antagonistic but that's a pretty strong, uninformed opinion. FADC is not 'bug abuse', it's a mechanic they've designed and implemented in a balanced way, to give players mix up options. It's no more bug abuse than parrying in Dark Souls, or combos in any fighting game, ever. Funnily enough, did you know that combos in SF2 were actually a bug which they left in, and basically invented fighting games as we know them? If you perceive linking one-frame hits as 'cheese', you don't really appreciate the skill ceiling here. These single frame mechanics are so tight, they took them out of SFV, to dumb it down a tad. The mechanics of SF4 are arguably the most precise, tight and reliable of any fighting game in history.

Use of the FADC mechanic became important but it only served as a combo extender, or a way to keep your opponent guessing. It's also severely limited by use of meter, because it's not what the game is all about. Ultimately, the flash stuff is just another tool to help in the fundamental skill of every fighting game - controlling space. If you really understand speed and range of your normal moves, keep a solid defence and can react well to your opponent's attacks (not necessarily aggressively), this is worth much more than anything else. Oh, and don't jump in. And keep them guessing by mixing up your approach. As I said earlier, I'm pretty crap at combos and technical stuff but quite often, I beat players much more skilled than me by really knowing my moveset, trying to keep them where I want them and punishing mistakes consistently.

As I say, no disrespect, but some of the criticisms are coming from a place of ignorance, after dipping into the game at the end of its lifespan. That said, it's got a real lease of life in the lead up to V so you're going to get plenty of matches on there, albeit in a skilled, experienced community. I don't know exactly what your expectations were but it's worth remembering that it's also a rare opportunity to play against good players and learn much more quickly. I'm certain it'll have a large player base for another year or more. They will know your character's strengths and weaknesses better than you, true, but your lack of experience or habits will make you hard to read!

[Big Jack McBastard]

To be fair I didn't know what I was expecting either. I'm absolutely detached from how the userbase looks at it now.

Was FADC outright intended to be something that would pwn the unsuspecting right from the off?

Don't get me wrong it's technically impressive and I'm sure it takes a lot of fucking work to get nailed down and you're right it's an available method and closer to an exploit than a bug, so why not use it, whatever.

I reckon Fight Night Round 3 spoiled me for 1v1 fighting games.

[Hollow]

6 hours of downtime later and now the servers are off 'till it's done, Duke Nukem Forever style.

Cracking launch gentlemen, bonuses all round!

What a shower of cunts, i just bought a months PS+ which i had no intention of doing otherwise to play it.

[Hollow]

Just played a couple of ranked matches, so it's not totally dead, fucking slow between games though.

Gets the old pulse going this game doesn't it?

I can only play as Ryu though, doing the same old tactics I used in 1990...Jump towards, strong kick, sweep kick, hadoken.

[Hollow]

I FUCKING HATE CHUN LI!!!!!

FAT THIGHED BITCH.

[Hollow]

Yay, i'm a rookie no longer, i really like this game, fuck the problems, when it's fixed this my game of 2016, who'd have thought that?

I'm gonna get good.

[Swoz_MK]

I can only play as Ryu though, doing the same old tactics I used in 1990...Jump towards, strong kick, sweep kick, hadoken.

Every character in the game can stop you in your tracks at that point.

[Hollow]

I know, but timing is key.

Got to stop for a bit, it's making me angry, really angry.

[Hollow]

I need a proper stick, analogue is sloppy and the d-pad is useless.

[Hollow]

It's turned into a slideshow now, i always get the feeling that when that happens it's running smooth as silk for the other fellow.

I tore my sock up in pure rage earlier, the controller nearly got flung, all good fun.

[Hollow]

Is it just me or are all the characters that werent in two totally shit?

Like that cunt Rachid? Spammy shitty cunt.

[Shay Chaise]

I think it's pretty balanced but every character will have some trickier match ups.

[lazarou]

I haven't played SF4 in ages and barely touched on Ultra, but I'm still strangely compelled to try this out.

I know I'll love the single-played content if they're going all-out Mortal Kombat style with a broad range of challenges to get your teeth into (hell, that kept me playing MK solo for longer than any other fighter and I don't even get on with the mechanics in that series), it's a pain we'll have to wait until bloody June for that. And my first choice Lady hasn't even hit the roster yet (but her sexy purpleness is coming, thankfully). But I love the idea of the simpler, more focused mechanics, and I wouldn't mind getting in on the ground floor as opposed to dropping back to Ultra and getting obliti-raped by folks that've been playing since the early days.

Might be a regrettable purchase incoming. Though it'll be a semi-legit $30 reseller one and not sixty bucks because I'm not a total mentalist.

[Shay Chaise]

Was FADC outright intended to be something that would pwn the unsuspecting right from the off?

Don't get me wrong it's technically impressive and I'm sure it takes a lot of fucking work to get nailed down and you're right it's an available method and closer to an exploit than a bug, so why not use it, whatever.

I know this is kind of just semantics but FADC is a mechanic, designed and implemented to give offensive and defensive options to players who learn to use it. It's a continuum of skill, both being able to use it and knowing when to use it. It's not there to take advantage of new players, it's a very varied, deep tool but it's nothing compared to good spacing and decision making.

[The Region Legion]

Yeah, after the "indefinitely" tweet the servers were opened about an hour and 15 minutes later. Something lost in translation maybe? I guess they didn't want to keep saying "it'll be an hour" and then saying "it'll be another hour" when that hour was up, which they'd already done twice. Third time was the charm.

I'm a Ryu player, and currently my nemesis is Ken. They've really turned them into totally different fighters this time, it's quite refreshing... but annoying.

[Shay Chaise]

I'm a Ken and I've just played about half a dozen Ryus in the last hour and won all but one, finally up to Super Bronze! Traditionally, I've found Ryu really intimidating because he's so solid and chunky. I find it really hard to break down a defensive Ryu because his normals are so solid, even if a bit stubby compared to Chun or something.

Now, in V it's really difficult to play rushdown Ken because he just doesn't have the mix up options like in 4 but it actually suits my style. I hover outside sweep range and engage in nervous footsies and use mp. DP on reaction for anything anti air or ill judged specials. He's also got a really fast dash so I can move in for the odd throw to keep them guessing. I'm having a lot of joy with it because it makes players back away to gain a bit of space. Ken can go apeshit in the corner.

My advice for Ryu is make Ken attack. You've got the FB spacing game. You've got a better sweep, faster overhead. Make him sweat, tempt him into throwing out specials, punish and reset.

Good luck!

[The Region Legion]

My advice for Ryu is make Ken attack. You've got the FB spacing game. You've got a better sweep, faster overhead. Make him sweat, tempt him into throwing out specials, punish and reset.

I've been doing well so far with defensive strategy for Ryu, basically just waiting people out and attacking when their guard is down/off their blocked hit, but I'm having difficulty stringing a combo together with him. It seems like he maxes out at 3 hits at a time, and they're slow, by which time of course most people have already blocked. The best I can manage usually is a gut punch to uppercut to hadouken/dragon punch but it's not much of a punisher and even those are rare. It seems like Ken has a number of 5-7 hit combo moves that can't be particularly hard to pull off given how often I see them.

[Shay Chaise]

To an extent, isn't that Ryu? He's not much of a flashy combo character, he's about reliable, steady damage and lots of 3-4 hit safe punishes. I'm not yet sure how combo damage scaling works in V but in 4, you were better off with a heavy 3 hit punish than a long, risky chain. I think this game encourages that even more. Even Ken, a pretty flashy character in 4, has had his combo options trimmed, unless in the corner or in V-trigger, when he can get away with more juggle and linked supers.

Anyway, here's a list of stuff I copied from the Ryu combo thread on the shoryuken forums:

Anti-airs
- MP shoryuken - invincible, highest damage and most reliable
- cr. HP - Good from close but not as reliable as stopping cross-ups as SF4. Must be done slightly preemptively.
- HK - anti airs from disturbingly far away, but pretty lousy up close
- Jump back HP - good for responding to jumps made close to you and ambiguous cross-ups
- jump back LP/LK - quicker version of the jump HP
- MP shoryuken xx Super- If you have the meter to spend, a good way to land super.

• Note that EX shoryuken works as an anti-air but adds negligible damage compared to the MP version. It might be better at anti-airing dive kicks

Punish combos (No meter):
Close:
- f+st. HP, cr. HP xx HP shoryu (283 damage, 395 stun) - cr. HP only lands if punish was done close, go-to punish
- st. MP, cr. HP xx HP shoryu (244 damage, 395 stun) - general punish combo because of quick startup
- st. MP, cr. HP xx MK tatsu (212 damage, 395 stun) - less damage, more corner carry, do HK tatsu to get to other side
- st. LP xx HP Shoryuken (156 damage, 395 stun) - 4 frame punish
Ranged:
- st. MP, cr. MP xx MK tatsu (194 damage, 350 stun)
- st. MP xx HP shoryu (186 damage, 280 stun)
- st. MP xx st. HP xx st. HK (170 damage, 227 stun) - if crouching, only do st. MP xx st. HP
- cr. MP xx HP Hadouken (114 damage, 190 stun) - 5 frame ranged punish
- cr. MP xx MK Tatsu (150 damage, 280 stun) (STANDING ONLY) - do HK Tatsu to switch sides
- cr. MK xx HP Hadouken (104 damage, 280 stun)
- cr. MK xx MK Tatsu (140 damage, 280 stun) (STANDING ONLY) - do HK Tatsu to switch sides
- cr. HK (100 damage, 150 stun) - gives great setup
- f+st. HP xx HP shoryu (216 damage, 280 stun)
- LP/MP/HP Hadouken

Note: Ryu has no way of using 1-2 bars to meaningfully increase his punish damage outside the corner.

Punish combos (1 bar):
Close:
- f+st. HP, st. MP, cr. MK xx EX Tatsu (284 damage, 410 stun)
Ranged:
- st. LK xx EX Hadouken (120 damage, 205 stun)
- cr. MP xx EX Hadouken (150 damage, 235 stun) - 5 frame ranged punish
- cr. MP xx EX Tatsu (185 damage, 280 stun)
- cr. MK xx EX Tatsu (175 damage, 280 stun)
- f+st. HP, st. MP xx EX Tatsu (254 damage, 350 stun)

Punish combos (2 bars):
Close:
- f+st. HP, cr. HP xx EX Tatsu, EX Shoryuken (393 damage, 535 stun) (CORNER ONLY

Punish combos (3 bars):
Close:
- f+st. HP, cr. HP xx Super (507 damage, 395 stun)
- st. MP, cr. HP xx HP shoryu xx Super (477 damage, 395 stun)
Ranged:
- st. LP / st. LK / cr. MP / cr. MK xx Super
- st. MP, cr. MP xx Super (370 damage, 190 stun)
- f+st. HP xx HP Shoryu xx Super (472 damage, 280 stun) - go-to super combo for ranged and close
- Super

Punish combos (V-trigger):
No Meter:
- st. MP, cr. HP xx V-trigger, st.HK, st.LK xx HP Shoryuken (302 damage, 507 stun)
- st. MP xx st. HP xx st. HK xx V-trigger, HP Shoryuken (254 damage, 347 stun)
- st. MP xx st. HP xx st. HK xx V-trigger, LK Tatsu (218 damage, 347 stun)
- st. MP xx st. HP xx st. HK xx V-trigger, MK Tatsu (230 damage, 347 stun)
1 bar:
- st. MP xx st. HP xx st. HK xx V-trigger, EX Hadouken (242 damage, 337 stun)
- st. MP xx st. HP xx st. HK xx V-trigger, EX Shoryuken (266 damage, 347 stun) (CORNER ONLY)
3 bars:
- st. MP xx st. HP xx st. HK xx V-trigger, Super (374 damage, 247 stun) - don't do super too fast


Confirm combos:
• Ryu's st. MP which starts a lot of his punishes also starts his confirms.
- b+ st. HK, st. LK xx HP Shoryuken (219 damage, 373 stun)
- st. MP, cr. MP xx MK tatsu (194 damage, 350 stun)
- st. MP, cr. MP xx Super (370 damage, 190 stun)
- cr. LP, st. LP, st. LK xx MK tatsu (151 damage, 329 stun) (STANDING ONLY)
- cr. LP, st. LP, st. LK xx LK tatsu (xx Super) (137 damage, 329 stun) (STANDING ONLY) - way better setup
- cr. LK, cr. LP xx HP shoryu (xx Super) (159 damage, 293 stun) - Higher damage but less reaction time

Crush counter / counter-hit combos:
Close:
- st. HK, cr. HP xx HP shoryu (301 damage, 475 stun) - the most reliable combo since it requires no walking.
- st. HP xx Super (385 damage, 180 stun)
- st. HP, EX Shoryuken (252 damage, 360 stun) (CORNER ONLY)
- st. MK, st. LK xx MK tatsu (STANDING ONLY) (179 damage, 343 stun) - do HK tatsu to switch sides
Ranged:
- cr. MP, cr. MK xx HP Hadouken (165 damage, 290 stun) - Good hit-confirm
- cr. MP, Super (reaction) (360 damage, 120 stun)
- st. HP xx st. HK (171 damage, 252 stun)
- st. HK, cr. HK (198 damage, 315 stun)
- st. HK, cr. MK xx MK tatsu (233 damage, 430 stun) (STANDING ONLY) - They should be standing if you hit the HK
- st. HK, Hadouken / Super / Tatsu

Air Combos:
- anti-air fireball, Super (330, 100) - Ryu can quite easily super on reaction to the opponent landing on a fireball. This works from really far away and is even easier in v-trigger

j. MP, b+st. HK (116, 211) - this is Ryu's best hope at a meterless follow up.
j. MP, j. MP xx HK tatsu (196, 305) - this is insanely impractical right now but might get more viable on release. You need a crazy deep j. mp.
j. MP, EX shoryu (224, 280) - this is the BnB 1 bar follow up
j. MP, Super (350, 100) - BnB super follow up
j. MP (1 hit) xx tatsu, HP shoryu (166, 230) you can still preserve the free juggle state with a cancel to tatsu on first hit, but it's more impractical because tatsu has more ground recovery and HP shoryu is slower. You could go into sweep too I guess.

[Shay Chaise]

So, basically, you're right that he's limited to three hit combos for the most part. The only big flashy thing is the EX tatsu into EX DP in the corner, which is deadly and has easy timing, but is obviously situational and uses a lot of meter.

One of the best things about Ryu, and it was similar in 4, is the ease with which you can combo into his Super (Critical Art in V). I used to love playing him in 4, fishing for aerial trades and hitting his Ultra. I think that's gone in V but the fact that you can CA off a lp is insane.

[The Region Legion]

I'm with you on most of that but you'll need to explain what the lower case letters mean.

[samadriel]

st. = standing
f+st. = pressing forward (towards) while standing
b+st. = pressing back (away) while standing
cr. = crouching
j. = jumping
xx = cancel into (eg. jumping HK cancels into tatsu. If it does, that is; I haven't played Ryu in about 20 years.)

[Shay Chaise]

cr. is crouching
j. is jumping
st. is standing
b/f mean holding back or forward while inputting

My 'lp' in the post just above should have been capitalised, just lazy. Any other questions, always happy to discuss.

[Shay Chaise]

This game is 90% psychological. I won about 40 games out of 45 the other evening. I've just lost about twenty of twenty two. Once you start sliding and chasing LP, you're fucked.

[The Region Legion]

This game is 90% psychological.

Yes, that's very clear too. Once I started to get higher in the ranks I noticed people who were lower than me wouldn't play in quite the same way. It's particularly helpful to have a few wins under your belt.

Thanks for all the gubbins above by the way, I'm trying to filter bits into my playing but it's going to take a while.

[The Masked Unit]

All this talk of strategy, psychology etc as applied to SF just makes it sounds utterly joyless, and the main reason I'd never get back into it.

[Shay Chaise]

Interesting take, I'd love to know how you'd play a fighting game without engaging your brain. SF is basically fast chess.

If you just want to bash a few buttons and do special moves that's cool but what if you want to enjoy it beyond the first five minutes? You've pretty much discounted any competitive activity in any discipline, there.

Bravo.

[kngen]

Interesting take, I'd love to know how you'd play a fighting game without engaging your brain. SF is basically fast chess.

If you just want to bash a few buttons and do special moves that's cool but what if you want to enjoy it beyond the first five minutes?

In Dead Or Alive, you can choose what colour the female fighter's pants are. Shamefully, that's held my attention longer than five minutes.

[The Masked Unit]

Interesting take, I'd love to know how you'd play a fighting game without engaging your brain. SF is basically fast chess.

If you just want to bash a few buttons and do special moves that's cool but what if you want to enjoy it beyond the first five minutes? You've pretty much discounted any competitive activity in any discipline, there.

Bravo.

I was a very competent sf2 player back in the day, knew many others, and none of us ever got board with playing an attacking, risky and fun style. I appreciate things have moved on, but all this frame counting shit can fuck off, personally speaking.