Microsoft Are Now Forcing Windows 10 on Me/Us

[Ambient Sheep]

Slightly off-topic, but more disturbingly, I also read the following in the Slashdot comments:

I used to do quite a bit of Windows dev work also. I have Windows 7 in a virtual machine just for that. I haven't been doing nearly as much lately mostly by choice. I do most of that Windows dev work with VS2008 even though I have VS all the way up to 2012. The reason I use 2008 is because newer versions just seemed to get slower and harder to use.

When I read the article the other day about MS C++ compiler adding in telemetry info into programs compiled with it as a default option without any notice that it was doing it and having to explicitly turn it off, I was glad I hadn't continued getting new versions of VS. A Lot of the stuff I do is security related and I cant have things in there that I don't know are in there. That is a quick way to lose contracts and get sued.

(emphasis mine)

As I said in reply, bloody hell, I'd not heard of that.

Seems that we're now only one step away from The Ken Thompson Hack, that's if we're not already secretly there already...

[Phil_A]

I bought an Samsung (Android) smartphone recently. Everything's was fine with it, but then it suddenly started automatically installing Microsoft Office apps that I had never asked for and didn't want. And then, after I had cancelled the downloads and uninstalled the software, it kept trying to do it again, and again, until I figured out how to turn off automatic updates.

I mean, fucking hell. Is nowhere safe from them? You'd expect that shit on a Windows phone, but an Android one?

[Ambient Sheep]

The BBC have picked up on the $10k story now, and as I type it's currently the #1 story on their website:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36640464

[MojoJojo]

I was a bit surprised that Microsoft let it go, because after all that left the woman with a court win against them.  However a chain of Slashdot comments here explains it, basically:

Still, it does mean that other people might be tempted to have a go...

The register explained that it was a small claims court, and in California attorneys aren't allowed in the small claims court. So MS was represented by the local Customer Services representative. That's probably the main reason they capitulated.

[MojoJojo]

Slightly off-topic, but more disturbingly, I also read the following in the Slashdot comments:

(emphasis mine)

As I said in reply, bloody hell, I'd not heard of that.

Seems that we're now only one step away from The Ken Thompson Hack, that's if we're not already secretly there already...

A lot of paranoia about MS at the moment, but this a bit of a non-story. While it has the unfortunate name telemetry, it only logs stuff to the local logs.

And, fundamentally, MS don't need to add anything to code compiled with VS to get all the info they want, since they control the OS.

[Ambient Sheep]

The register explained that it was a small claims court, and in California attorneys aren't allowed in the small claims court. So MS was represented by the local Customer Services representative. That's probably the main reason they capitulated.

Makes sense.

Good old El Reg.  I got out of the habit of my daily (sometimes multiple times a day) visits when they had that big staff purge a few years back and got a bit shit.  But seems like they're better than the alternatives right now...

You'll have me reminiscing about NTK next.

A lot of paranoia about MS at the moment, but this a bit of a non-story. While it has the unfortunate name telemetry, it only logs stuff to the local logs.

And, fundamentally, MS don't need to add anything to code compiled with VS to get all the info they want, since they control the OS.

Thanks for the info, as I did want to follow-up what the guy was saying to check it out but didn't have the time.  And yes, I suppose it makes little odds in the end given what the OS (and firmware, and microcode, and System Management Mode, and that new new thing they've recently discovered that runs even above SMM) are doing...

However to be honest, I think most of the paranoia about MS is thoroughly deserved; only Google are worse right now.

[HappyTree]

KB3173040 - last ditch nagware. Do not install!

Am I hopelessly naive in believing that after the end of this free offer these kinds of updates will cease? I'm fed up having to search for sites listing dodgy updates before I manually accept or banish them. Then of course I hide an update only for it to come back again. Kinell.

[NattyDread]

My 6 year old laptop running Windows 7 is toiling a bit and it's time for a clean install. Is it pointless putting win10 on an older machine? I don't fancy all the spying malarkey and I've a few less than official versions of programs. Would those run?
Apparently the win10 download runs out at the end of the month so I should decide sharpish.
I'd be open to trying Linux too. Is it easy enough to use these days?

[HappyTree]

I did install W10 on my own 6 year-old laptop with Win 7. I hardly use it and when I do it's only for the most basic Word and browser work purposes.

It runs fine. I actually quite like it! Only reason I refuse it on my main machine is the spying.

[olliebean]

My 8 year old desktop is running as smoothly with W10 as it did with XP (which is more so than it did with W7), so I reckon you'll be OK.

[Gurke and Hare]

I'd be open to trying Linux too. Is it easy enough to use these days?

Depends what you want to do, but yes, much more so than in the past. I'd recommend Linux Mint which is about as good as it gets in my experience for everything just working. No MS Office, but I've never really understood why people want that on their home PC - there's Libre Office which is fine for the kind of basic stuff you might want to do at home. Not that good for games, obviously, but there's still plenty on Steam for Linux, including some 'proper' games (Civ 5 for example, so likely Civ 6 too). If you're just playing on the internet, listening to music and watching videos you can do all that easily.

[neardark]

Really is very weird what's going on with Windows now. They either need to go full metro or full non-metro. Having two different GUIs in the same operating system makes the whole thing feel unfinished. A way of toggling between the two would be a start. I don't like how there are different routes to achieving the same thing.

It also makes me wonder what the point of UX is. If fucking Microsoft can get it this wrong...

[Wilbur]

Windows key  and D = desktop
Windows key and S = metro (or watever the fuck its called this week).

[Hollow]

Really is very weird what's going on with Windows now. They either need to go full metro or full non-metro. Having two different GUIs in the same operating system makes the whole thing feel unfinished. A way of toggling between the two would be a start. I don't like how there are different routes to achieving the same thing.

It also makes me wonder what the point of UX is. If fucking Microsoft can get it this wrong...

What's that meant to mean? Microsoft has been pumping out buggy substandard OS software for as long as I can remember.

[MojoJojo]

Yeah, Hollow, you're just being mental.

1) Windows has actually been pretty sound since 2000 (or rather NT has always been pretty sound). Yes it has deficiencies, but it also has strengths. The DOS line could be mocked for being daft in lots of places, but NT is mostly well conceived.
2) Neardark didn't suggest that W10 was buggy or substandard, and I don't think anyone in the thread has because it just isn't. There are reasons not to want W10, but stability and functionality aren't ones.

You've just made up shit to comment on.

[Hollow]

Yeah, Hollow, you're just being mental.

1) Windows has actually been pretty sound since 2000 (or rather NT has always been pretty sound). Yes it has deficiencies, but it also has strengths. The DOS line could be mocked for being daft in lots of places, but NT is mostly well conceived.
2) Neardark didn't suggest that W10 was buggy or substandard, and I don't think anyone in the thread has because it just isn't. There are reasons not to want W10, but stability and functionality aren't ones.

You've just made up shit to comment on.

Mental? As mental as following people round a forum arguing the toss for no reason? I think it's always been substandard, shut the fuck up stalker.

I'm glad you think mental illness is a good attack strategy.

Was that tag you too monkey boy? I would actually be described as 'mental' you know? Medically? Are you going to wind your neck in now?

[Hollow]

Yeah, Hollow, you're just being mental.

1) Windows has actually been pretty sound since 2000 (or rather NT has always been pretty sound). Yes it has deficiencies, but it also has strengths. The DOS line could be mocked for being daft in lots of places, but NT is mostly well conceived.
2) Neardark didn't suggest that W10 was buggy or substandard, and I don't think anyone in the thread has because it just isn't. There are reasons not to want W10, but stability and functionality aren't ones.

You've just made up shit to comment on.

You realise Windows Millenium came out after 2000 right?

And that 2000 wasn't supported at all well.

The first fully functional windows that was stable was XP...and that had a healthy chunk of other issues.

Stop being such a cunt, if you want to contest what I've said fine...just cut the provocative shit out...there's no need and all that's going to happen is I'm going feel worse about everything, I'm sure you don't give a shit about the upset you cause but I'm a bit of an idiot in that I feel everything...when I've attacked people I feel shit, when I merely defend myself I feel shit.

[MojoJojo]

OK, I'm sorry if I've annoyed. I responded today and yesterday to posts where you seem to be deliberately misunderstanding things to be provocative/pick a fight with.

Case in point -  yes I know Millennium came out after 2000, although like most people I'd like to forget it altogether. The point I was making however was clear - the NT line of Windows can in no sensible way be called "substandard".

If you're really bothered by the "provocative shit", you need to stop being provocative yourself.

On topic, I do think MS have a really difficult problem with their UI. I still hear bitching about the ribbon UI.

(as a side point, I think the stability issue gets overplayed a bit. It shouldn't happen, but once a day is liveable)

[Blumf]

The point I was making however was clear - the NT line of Windows can in no sensible way be called "substandard".

Weeeellllll.... XP was a mess to begin with, mainly because they fucked up the purity of NT to get the pretty stuff working.

Then Vista, the WinME of the NT line. And now the 8..10 versions have had a fair bit of oddness to them (shutdown times are still bugging me. Why does it take so long doing, seemingly, nothing right at the end?)

But in general NT has been a very good kernel. It's just a pity MS have repeatedly stuck a load of crap on top of it, and hidden a lot of the good stuff from the average user.

[Spiteface]

Just downloaded that GWX thing onto my laptop with windows 7 on it, and a few minutes later, I nop longer have the "Get Windows 10" thing in the bottom right of my screen. When I used my laptop yesterday, a window popped up with a countdown clock on it, until the 29th.

Anyway, I'm assuming that now the icon is gone, I won't be bothered by it again. I'm OK with 10 on my main PC, but My laptop is older and I've heard that Windows 10 doesn't get on with Samsung stuff (which my laptop is), and worries about some stuff on my laptop not working if I upgrade.

[Ambient Sheep]

I do wonder what happened to the Microsoft Usability Labs.

Windows & Office, back in their early days, used to be confusing, unintuitive pieces of shit.

Fortunately, somebody at Microsoft realised this, and instigated the Microsoft Usability Labs, where they basically sat down a fuckton of "average users" in front of their software and watched them try to do everyday simple tasks (and some not so everyday simple ones), and watched all the strange (and not-so-strange) ways they tried to do things, the ways they fucked up, and most of all the blind alleys they took, trying to achieve what they wanted to do.

Apparently the UI designers ended up quite shocked at how counter-intuitive their efforts actually were even to power-users, let alone the average user.  With the feedback given via the Usability Labs, Microsoft's software suddenly improved its friendliness in leaps and bounds.  It was very noticeable, to the point where even I -- a Microsoft hater since the late-80s[nb]Clue: the encrypted DR-DOS sabotage code, amongst various other dirty tricks.[/nb] -- was having to make grudgingly respectful noises about how damn usable it all now was, even if I didn't like the company much.

(Not exactly sure when this was, but we're talking sometime in the mid-90s I think -- there was a lot of publicity about it at the time, about the efforts they were making.)

This trend basically continued, although when the ribbon came along I did wonder what they were playing at.

But then, when Windows 8 came along, I was gobsmacked... not just because it was such a colossal pile of shit, but because I thought "What the living FUCK happened to the Usability Labs?  Did they shut them down or something?  Or just stop listening to them?"  Because if anybody had thrown Windows 8 at the same Usability Labs system that they had back in the mid-90s, it would have been very firmly thrown back at them with "Complete shite, try again."

I mean, I've been using computers since 1980, have used various OSes and paradigms, but on a friend's original Windows 8 I -- along with mostly everyone else -- couldn't even work out how to shut it down.  What do you mean, I have to vaguely wave the mouse in an invisible area over to the right of the screen, at which point some stuff (called Charms, although it never actually said that) might pop out if it feels like it, and if I can move the mouse quickly enough to catch it before it pops away again (usually I couldn't), then I might be able to get to something useful...?  Oh, and some of the Control Panel stuff is in this new-style interface, and some of it is in the old-style interface.  It was like some half-knocked-up alpha demo version of something that might be fit for release in five years' time.

How that ever passed any kind of usability testing I. Do. Not. Know. and the only conclusion I can reach is that it didn't, but that nobody cared.

So if you've made it this far through my rant (then congratulations and thank you) it is actually a genuine, real question: whatever happened to the Microsoft Usability Labs?

[HappyTree]

KB3035583 is stalking me. I've had to tell it to fuck off so many times I know its name by heart now. Hide update. Oh look, it's back again.

Meanwhile, 8.1 weather app doesn't work. That was the only useful "Metro" thing. Bag o' shite.

[brat-sampson]

Pretty near the end of the free upgrade option now. As I said i went through with it a month or so ago now, no real regrets. The spying stuff you can turn off and other than briefly messing w/ my internet it all went ok.

[ziggy starbucks]

I don't know what to do.

Can a wise person just tell me what to do?

please

[HappyTree]

Wait a few days and the question will disappear.

[Blumf]

Pretty near the end of the free upgrade option now. As I said i went through with it a month or so ago now, no real regrets. The spying stuff you can turn off and other than briefly messing w/ my internet it all went ok.

Uuuuuhhhh-huuuuuuuuh...

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3100358/windows/you-cant-turn-off-cortana-in-the-windows-10-anniversary-update.html

now in its final stages of development before it rolls out on August 2.

Cortana, the personal digital assistant that replaced Windows 10's search function and taps into Bing's servers to answer your queries with contextual awareness, no longer has an off switch.

Remind me again, why do people still trust Microsoft?

[olliebean]

With the Windows 10 Anniversary Update, the search box is now Cortana. Customers can expect the same great search experience powered by Bing and Microsoft Edge with the added benefit of Cortana's personality.

Goddammit, I don't want my "search experience" to have a "personality".

I'm hoping I can still disable Cortana in Group Policy and it won't stop me hitting the Windows key and typing to find apps in the Start menu. Which is pretty much all I ever use the Start menu search box for, apart from the occasional quick currency conversion.

[Zetetic]

Yes, you can still disable it in Group Policy. It'd be a security nightmare if you couldn't in some places.

I haven't established how difficult it is to block using a firewall or IPS.

[Blumf]

Nurse! Nurse! It keeps happening!

http://www.ghacks.net/2016/07/28/microsoft-removes-policies-windows-10-pro/

Professional editions of Windows 10 ship with the Group Policy Editor that enables users and administrators to make changes to the default configuration of the operating system.

Up until now, policy availability was more or less identical for all professional versions of Windows 10. Turns out, this is no longer the case when the Windows 10 Anniversary Update is released.

Some policies contain a note stating that they only apply to certain editions of Windows 10, with Windows 10 Pro not being listed as one of them.
...
The big one is the Turn off Microsoft consumer experiences policy. We have talked about the feature previously. It powers among other things the installation of third-party apps and extra links on Windows 10.

So, if you did not want Candy Crush to be pushed to your operating system, you'd disable the policy to block that from happening.

The change prevents Windows 10 Pro users from enabling the policy to block third-party application installations or links.

From what I understand, Enterprise licences only start off at 250 seats. There's a lot of small businesses out there that'd never reach that, so it looks like a lot of people are going to have to work with MS's trinkets being spammed at them.

[Ambient Sheep]

It also appears that it will insist on TPM 2.0, so get ready for the totally locked-down biometric future...

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2466259/microsoft-tpm-20-support-now-mandatory-for-all-windows-10-devices


EDIT: Much speculation on the Slashdot thread that Microsoft is doing the group policy thing precisely because a lot of large companies are getting away with buying Pro rather than Enterprise at three times the price, e.g.

Many large companies are using the Pro license, because they don't want to be on the hook for annual enterprise licensing payments.  I know of at least two Fortune 500 companies that are using Pro licenses for their desktops and laptops, and I imagine there are many more.

Yes. That was pretty much my argument too.

This crippling of Pro to prevent 'consumers' from turning off cortana etc makes no sense, and would be bizarre if that was the intention.

But as a means to push actual enterprises (and small/med businesses) from pro to enterprise... it suddenly makes a lot more sense.

These moves by Microsoft amount to nothing less than extortion. Our company uses Windows 7 Pro as our standard desktop because Enterprise costs approx 3 times more, and we arn't going to get 3 times the value for it.

By doing what they are doing with Windows 10, they are basically holding companies like ours over a barrel because if we stick with Pro, we end up with *reduced* functionality.