Green Room (Jeremy Saulnier, 2016)

[Van Dammage]

But don't they find it in the pocket of the victim? Why does she have it?

Oh wait no sorry. It's the cue for her to leave and run away with the other skinhead. Tad's (The lad interviewing them at the start) cousin. Forgot it myself for a second.

[Wet Blanket]

Ah sure, I remember now, yeah you're right

[zomgmouse]

Left me a little cold, this one. Lean and stylish stuff, no question and I get that the economy of the thing inspired all those Carpenter comparisons, but even at his hardest Carpenter knows how to make you have *fun*

I see the Carpenter comparison, but I would say that this warrants more Peckinpah comparisons. This gave me serious Straw Dogs vibes. Nonviolent people put in violent situations becoming violent, that sort of thing.

[Noodle Lizard]

Straw Dogs was made in the 70s and was actually good though.

[zomgmouse]

Straw Dogs was made in the 70s and was actually good though.

This wasn't made in the 70s and was also actually good. I'm intrigued as to why the people who didn't think it was thrilling and tense thought that way. Personally I was in knots from the moment they got to the venue.

[Van Dammage]

As soon as they started playing "Nazi punks fuck off" I thought the stage was going to be rushed or something.

[Paaaaul]

This wasn't made in the 70s and was also actually good. I'm intrigued as to why the people who didn't think it was thrilling and tense thought that way. Personally I was in knots from the moment they got to the venue.

Bear in mind that Noodle didn't see the last 20 minutes so he missed the bit where the alien nazis landed and reset the world.

[Small Man Big Horse]

I thought this was okay and everything, quite tense and fucked up in places, but I wonder if it would have garnered quite so much attention if Patrick Stewart hadn't taken the lead villain role. His plan was particularly weak as well, especially

Spoiler alert

getting nearly everyone to fuck off at the end whilst two people were still alive in the building, I know time was of the importance and everything but I'm sure a couple more could have stayed.

[close]

Plus if I was one of the band I'd have

Spoiler alert

fucked with all of their heroin, shitting in it or setting it on fire or something, so at least my probable death would have annoyed the nazis a bit.

[close]

[Default to the negative]

Bear in mind that Noodle didn't see the last 20 minutes so he missed the bit where the alien nazis landed and reset the world.

To be honest, I would have liked the fact of them being Nazis to be more important to the story.

As it stands, you could replace the skinheads with any other Scary Gang and the plot wouldn't be any different.

[Vitalstatistix]

I had such high expectations but ended up really disappointed.

The opening few sequences are masterful, brilliantly setting up this dreamlike, eerie atmosphere.

Unfortunately it really does descend into horror cliche about two thirds in. Maeby actually says "let's split up" at one point. I mean c'mon!! As mentioned above, the plot is nonsensical (

Spoiler alert

the nazis could've quite easily ended up getting into the room but they made things hard for themselves for no reason

[close]

), Stewart was given a disappointingly small amount to do, and neo-nazi subculture is completely unexplored given the setting.

[zomgmouse]

neo-nazi subculture is completely unexplored given the setting.

Saulnier's films generally have quite a subtle exploration of the settings he proffers, there's a lot more to the depictions and characterisations than meets the eye. I thought looking back there's a lot more that fits together than on first inspection.

[popcorn]

I too found this tense and gripping and good, and I too found the plot makes little sense on examination. Compared to Blue Ruin (which I think is pretty much flawless), there are a lot of components that don't really pull their weight. Examples:

Spoiler alert

The discovery of the drug lab changed almost nothing in the story except to make the space big enough to facilitate the ambush later. How on earth did Patrick Stewart expect to make it look convincingly like the band had murdered everyone?

[close]

And unlike zomgmouse I thought it was less funny than Blue Ruin.

Imogen Poots was fucking ace, though, one of the coolest characters I've seen in a film in ages. I love the way she's just mental and furious.

[zomgmouse]

Spoiler alert

The discovery of the drug lab changed almost nothing in the story except to make the space big enough to facilitate the ambush later. How on earth did Patrick Stewart expect to make it look convincingly like the band had murdered everyone?

[close]

And unlike zomgmouse I thought it was less funny than Blue Ruin.

Spoiler alert

The drug stuff was there to show how insidious Stewart's leadership was and also to give a "final straw" incentive for Macon Blair's character to betray the Nazis.

[close]

Were there any jokes in Blue Ruin? I felt like there were no jokes. Or at least very few moments of comic relief. Which isn't a bad thing, it just felt like a more serious film, whereas Green Room seemed to be peppered with little bits of humour throughout, especially at the start and even for example the

Spoiler alert

shootout in the drug cellar

[close]

, and then of course the final

Spoiler alert

"doesn't matter"

[close]

.

[MuteBanana]

Stewart doing a shit American voice and doing fuck all was a disappointment. The bad guys weren't bad enough. The main bad actors were just weak as shit.

Joe Cole is amazing and I was surprised to see him here. He should have been the lead.

This didn't live up to expectations and it wasn't even a fun film either so it fails there too.

[MuteBanana]

I had such high expectations but ended up really disappointed.

The opening few sequences are masterful, brilliantly setting up this dreamlike, eerie atmosphere.

Unfortunately it really does descend into horror cliche about two thirds in. Maeby actually says "let's split up" at one point. I mean c'mon!! As mentioned above, the plot is nonsensical (

Spoiler alert

the nazis could've quite easily ended up getting into the room but they made things hard for themselves for no reason

[close]

), Stewart was given a disappointingly small amount to do, and neo-nazi subculture is completely unexplored given the setting.

I don't mind 'let's split up' being a cliche I just didn't get why they'd think it was a good idea.

I was expecting Stewart to be this sadistic, savage fucking bastard but nothing. Even his own men didn't seem to fear him much. I was hoping for a fight between him and Joe Cole after he started armbarring that guy. Thought they were setting that up with him getting all confident and Stew coming in and fucking him up.

[popcorn]

Spoiler alert

The drug stuff was there to show how insidious Stewart's leadership was and also to give a "final straw" incentive for Macon Blair's character to betray the Nazis.

[close]

Aye, that's all fair enough. But they're kind of... abstract plot points whereas I kind of wanted it to have more... concrete repercussions? Does that make any sense?

Were there any jokes in Blue Ruin? I felt like there were no jokes. Or at least very few moments of comic relief.

I thought Blue Ruin was great from the start, but the moment I realised it was one of the best films I'd seen in ages was the scene

Spoiler alert

where he tries to do surgery on himself in the style of a thousand tough action movie characters, but gives up and goes to a hospital

[close]

. I thought that was just fantastically amusing and real and human. You know, what if someone completely ill-equipped to go on a revenge mission went on a revenge mission?

I've only seen the film once so possibly the rest of the movie is actually relentlessly grim and my fondness for that scene is colouring my memory.

But I think it also helps that Macon Blair is a really likeable, unassuming actor. Which is another thing I liked about Green Room - he made a good sympathetic neo-nazi, hoovering the floor. Oh yes, that was another funny bit.

whereas Green Room seemed to be peppered with little bits of humour throughout, especially at the start and even for example the

Spoiler alert

shootout in the drug cellar

[close]

, and then of course the final

Spoiler alert

"doesn't matter"

[close]

.

You're right again, and final chapter in particular I found lots of fun, particularly with Amber

Spoiler alert

just going completely Rambo

[close]

. But I remember thinking halfway through "blimey, this is a fair bit nastier than Blue Ruin", and nothing in it had me clapping and grinning like a circus seal like that Blue Ruin scene.

[zomgmouse]

I was expecting Stewart to be this sadistic, savage fucking bastard but nothing. Even his own men didn't seem to fear him much. I was hoping for a fight between him and Joe Cole after he started armbarring that guy. Thought they were setting that up with him getting all confident and Stew coming in and fucking him up.

For me it felt much more frightening that he wasn't an OTT maniac but rather a subtle imposing figure who had control over this horde of followers. Notice how he never himself committed an act of violence until the end. He only manipulated others into doing so.

[zomgmouse]

Aye, that's all fair enough. But they're kind of... abstract plot points whereas I kind of wanted it to have more... concrete repercussions? Does that make any sense?

Yeah I know what you mean. I did feel it added quite a lot to the plot in retrospect and explained the whole presence of the venue in the middle of nowhere in the first place, etc. And gives another layer to the villainy.

I thought Blue Ruin was great from the start, but the moment I realised it was one of the best films I'd seen in ages was the scene

Spoiler alert

where he tries to do surgery on himself in the style of a thousand tough action movie characters, but gives up and goes to a hospital

[close]

. I thought that was just fantastically amusing and real and human. You know, what if someone completely ill-equipped to go on a revenge mission went on a revenge mission?

I've only seen the film once so possibly the rest of the movie is actually relentlessly grim and my fondness for that scene is colouring my memory.

But I think it also helps that Macon Blair is a really likeable, unassuming actor. Which is another thing I liked about Green Room - he made a good sympathetic neo-nazi, hoovering the floor. Oh yes, that was another funny bit.

Blue Ruin was definitely incredibly glum. The blue colour grading, for example. I remember the interaction with his old friend when getting the gun was quite comic as well but on the whole it did not feel like a fun film, just felt like a harrowing dissection of violence and vengeance. The self-surgery bit to me just felt like a self-aware touch on the part of the filmmakers and maybe not as specifically funny.
Have you seen Murder Party? Blair is quite good in that too.

You're right again, and final chapter in particular I found lots of fun, particularly with Amber

Spoiler alert

just going completely Rambo

[close]

. But I remember thinking halfway through "blimey, this is a fair bit nastier than Blue Ruin", and nothing in it had me clapping and grinning like a circus seal like that Blue Ruin scene.

Oh no doubt. It was horrifying. Tense as fuck and brutally gripping. But... with comic flourishes.

[popcorn]

Blue Ruin was definitely incredibly glum. The blue colour grading, for example.

That's really weird, because I remember it being quite sunny! Perhaps I was just in a really good mood when I watched it, it must have been my birthday or something. A rewatch is in order.

[zomgmouse]

That's really weird, because I remember it being quite sunny! Perhaps I was just in a really good mood when I watched it, it must have been my birthday or something. A rewatch is in order.

Now that you mention it it was quite sunny but then somehow I still feel it managed to be really bleak and sparse.

[BlodwynPig]

Run of the mill slasher movie to be fair. The dialogue was atrocious, the setting decent and the gore better than average, but the plot was the real let down.

[neveragain]

Apart from the one seemingly non-ironic use of "Let's split up", how was the dialogue atrocious? Felt very natural to me.

[DukeDeMondo]

I saw this again today and still think it's very good, if not as good as I initially thought (thought one was that it was better than Blue Ruin, but thought two is no, it isn't). The only thing I don't especially like about it is the colour palette, though that excessive green tinting obviously serves a purpose. It makes the whole thing feel a wee bit Saw III. I think Saw III is interesting enough, but that visual aesthetic really doesn't appeal to me. Looks fairly cheap, in fact, and not in a good Earth AD sort of way. Presumably Blue Ruin was as blue as this is green, but I don't remember that bothering me as much.

Still, top stuff all round. That sense of paranoia that runs through the first half hour or so - being somewhere you shouldn't be, catching glances from this one to the other, knowing you need to get the fuck away but not knowing what's waiting outside, who can be trusted and who can't - is masterfully evoked, and the queasiness of the first forty minutes or so - admittedly amplified by all that bloody green - is far more affecting than the

Spoiler alert

dogs n' tendons

[close]

capers of the second half. I actually felt sick with panic at times, and that on second viewing too, so good.

[BlodwynPig]

OK, maybe I'm missing something. Obviously I am. But it felt like a rather nasty live action scooby-doo.

[DukeDeMondo]

Well it certainly is nasty, and I wouldn't say there's an awful lot of depth to it. If you wanted to you could probably lay it next to the Nispel remake of Texas Chain Saw Massacre and there wouldn't be all that much derivation, I wouldn't have thought. But whatever it was, and whether it has any depth to it or it doesn't, or whether it's especially original or it isn't, it did what it did to near perfection, I thought. Pit of my stomach's still feelin off over the head of it.

[BlodwynPig]

Well it certainly is nasty, and I wouldn't say there's an awful lot of depth to it. If you wanted to you could probably lay it next to the Nispel remake of Texas Chain Saw Massacre and there wouldn't be all that much derivation, I wouldn't have thought. But whatever it was, and whether it has any depth to it or it doesn't, or whether it's especially original or it isn't, it did what it did to near perfection, I thought. Pit of my stomach's still feelin off over the head of it.

I wish I felt the same. It certainly promised as much. There was not much menace in the baddies. e.g. they went from thug to whimper quite easily.

[DukeDeMondo]

I wish I felt the same. It certainly promised as much. There was not much menace in the baddies. e.g. they went from thug to whimper quite easily.

That's actually one of its virtues I think, and I suppose it is what sets it apart from the likes of the Texas Doodah remake. I think they're all the more terrifying because half of them clearly don't care that much one way or the other, they're just a bunch of tools acting the hard men to impress old Star Trek, or to impress each other. Not knowing who was genuinely dangerous and who was just talk made for a fairly taut old time of it.

[BlodwynPig]

That's actually one of its virtues I think, and I suppose it is what sets it apart from the likes of the Texas Doodah remake. I think they're all the more terrifying because half of them clearly don't care that much one way or the other, they're just a bunch of tools acting the hard men to impress old Star Trek, or to impress each other. Not knowing who was genuinely dangerous and who was just talk made for a fairly taut old time of it.

i'll watch it again with your eyes (literally)

[Puce Moment]

These indie breakouts always tend to get loads of attention, and then hyped, and somehow seem underwhelming to me.

I think Blue Ruin is a fantastic little film. I love all the mystery at the beginning and then the way it builds to its climax.

For me, Green Room just seemed very unauthentic, and really did descend into B-movie horror cliches. I didn't buy these individuals as a struggling hardcore punk band, and I thought they seemed quite preposterous when performing. However, the point between them arriving at the gig, and then seeing the dead body, really is tense. The expectation of things going to shit is so palpable, but you don't know where it is going to come from.

After that, it's just humans doing either stupid things, or being ridiculously calm and able to plan, rather than just sitting in the corner of the room screaming. The superhero kid overpowering the bad guy in the room was the start of that - and then Brian Harvey just seems way too organised and experienced in the final scenes.

If this had tried to stay in the realms of the believable, and retained its grimy naturalism, and stayed nice and unpleasant, I think this could have been quite brilliant and disturbing.

[Malcy]

I watched it a few days ago. Really enjoyed it. Only watched it due to Stewart, Yelchin & Poots being in it. Otherwise it wouldn't have been my kind of film. Might check out his earlier films now.