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No Man's Sky

Started by Shay Chaise, May 26, 2016, 10:43:19 AM

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Barry Admin

Quote from: neardark on July 31, 2016, 11:54:39 AM
Just can't see it being anything but boring as fuck. Like when you're just driving around aimlessly on GTA because you have nothing better to do.

I suspect it'll be similar to Elite: Dangerous, where you're initially joyously overwhelmed by the sheer amount of planets and systems to explore, and then after ripping the arse out of the whole thing, you slowly become aware of the chore of the actual GRIND and mechanics driving it, and you give up, and wait for them to implement some real actual gameplay mechanics.  You know, things that are actually fun and interesting to do.

I hope that's not the case, though, and you all end up with a beezer space sim.  God bless the return of them!

Is Starpoint Gemini 2 worth getting?  It's cheap on Xbox at the mo.

Twed

I've said it a million times before, but with the original BBC Micro Elite they were smart enough to limit the number of things you could explore so it didn't look fake and algorithmically generated. It doesn't look No Man's Sky has ignored this lesson and gone the other way, HARD.

Quote from: Barry Admin on July 31, 2016, 08:14:00 PM
I suspect it'll be similar to Elite: Dangerous, where you're initially joyously overwhelmed by the sheer amount of planets and systems to explore, and then after ripping the arse out of the whole thing, you slowly become aware of the chore of the actual GRIND and mechanics driving it, and you give up, and wait for them to implement some real actual gameplay mechanics.  You know, things that are actually fun and interesting to do.

I hope that's not the case, though, and you all end up with a beezer space sim.  God bless the return of them!

Is Starpoint Gemini 2 worth getting?  It's cheap on Xbox at the mo.

I do get interested by these algorithmically made universes though. The infinite number of minecraft worlds. The billions of Elite Dangerous worlds. I used to play Elite on the Spectrum. We used to tease each other at school about stuff we'd discovered (but actually made up). This is, it was always tailored-content kind of stuff. Even at eight or nine, in the fucking 80s, we knew it was weepy numeric diarrhoea  oozing out the back end of a sad assemblage of formulae. "I was in witch space and this thargoid ship got me in a tractor beam and this alien like a cluster of tables told me I had to find this space station where they sold etc etc..." You're a baby when you get totally, irredeemably used to the idea that the world presents an endless array of randomised environmental shit. Clouds. Shadows. Caustics in a swimming pool. Beautiful, stunning, boring. It's the inter-personal shit that we imprint on. I'm still looking for a woman like a cluster of tables.

Barry Admin

Minecraft is a good example of procedural generation done well, but I think it's still lagging behind with regards its implementation in most modern games. As it tends to be used in very BIG games, you then have to deal with ong stretches of boring dullness - stretches that would have never made the cut in curated, hand-crafted environments.

I just watched a Twitch stream of Starpoint Gemini 2, there, and it reminded me of the dullness of 1:1 space flight in Elite: Dangerous. I would snap CNN or have my phone to hand constantly, just to deal with the mind-numbing dullness of jumping from system to system, or of having to spend ten+ minutes flying to a starport once I finally got there. It's a dullness that's hard to circumvent, especially with space sims.

Quote from: Barry Admin on July 31, 2016, 10:10:39 PM
Minecraft is a good example of procedural generation done well, but I think it's still lagging behind with regards its implementation in most modern games.

Still though, they pretty quickly threw in semi-random dungeony things like the fortresses in the nether and the mines and mossy shit in the standard world to make it all seem a little less starkly numeric.

My idea is you do a MMO where everyone starts in the same settlement on a new world and you have to explore outwards. It is hardcore survival rules. No breathable atmosphere. Resources scarces. You slowly slowly push the boundaries outwards in this hard hard world. Then the first settlers get enough resources to build railway-like infrastructure, and can charge new entrants to transport them to the frontier. Still you can choose to walk it if you want. Gradually pioneers reach temples that give them the ability to submit designs for new content.

Shay Chaise

I think it's important for the internet, not this place as such, to remember what NMS is - the second game made by a miniscule indie, despite the hype that's been thrown at it by outside parties. I've been looking forward to it for ages, even though I know it won't be anything like my wild imaginative fantasies, and I'll find elements of it a bit underwhelming but I really find the smirks of pleasure at its potential shortcomings tiresome and it highlights the worst of gaming culture, nitpicking little joyless fucks. There's a very particular type of little cunt who can't wait to tell the world that they've cancelled their preorder because the cloud textures are obviously repeated. They're down there with all the war criminal lads for me, who at least arguably have some enthusiasm for something.

Twed

Miniscule indie? They're in the double figures team-wise, I think.

lazarou

Quote from: Twed on July 31, 2016, 10:58:34 PM
Miniscule indie? They're in the double figures team-wise, I think.

Barely, there's like ten or fifteen of them, isn't there? That's absolutely nothing for a game of this scale, Frontier Developments (the Elite devs) run over 200 strong and counting (although Frontier tend to re-allocate resources to other projects based on current dev needs).

Twed

Sure, but I think that's a pretty big indie team. If we're using the word minuscule for that, what do we use for two-person teams?

But yes, they may be judged by the standards of large studios.

Shay Chaise

I'm talking relative to how they're perceived, the hype and expectation is up there with the creative AAA industry. It might be a little bit harsh to repeat the phrase 'joyless nitpicking fuck' (wink) but the point is that expectations are not only unrealistic, there's also a sizeable group of people clearly waiting for them to fail, which is lame when you think about who HG are. I mean, even the long time between reveal and publication can be attributed in large part to their offices being flooded and them losing absolutely everything a couple of years ago.

Twed

Quote from: Shay Chaise on July 31, 2016, 11:47:32 PM
I'm talking relative to how they're perceived, the hype and expectation is up there with the creative AAA industry.
Sure. Like I said, I understand. I've experienced it as a one-man team on an online game I created that became popular. Free to play (before microtransactions too; you literally could not spend money in this game) and yet people would still make demands of me daily, like I was a huge corporation. People don't get it.

I'm just being fussy about the word minuscule, because you were describing a team several times bigger than some of us ever work with!

brat-sampson

It seems there's at least three camps on this game already, Imma call them pragmatists, unrealists and pricks. The Unrealists are super-hyped for a game that only exists in their heads, will loudly sing about how amazing it's going to be and make claims that bear no relation to anything SM/HG have ever actually said. These guys are probably in for a slow post-denial-phase collapse of some kind. Pragmatists look at the trailers and the info, get that this is going to be a fun little universe to explore and tinker in, think that's cool and are looking forward to it. Pricks think the game wont live up to the unrealists standards, are looking for evidence of it all over and just like pissing on parades and being little assholes about the whole thing.

I'm going to assume most of the unrealists and pricks are younger than the pragmatists too. It just seems that somehow this game in particular has attracted a fuckton of them.

Shay Chaise

#72
Quote from: Twed on August 01, 2016, 02:54:50 AM
Sure. Like I said, I understand. I've experienced it as a one-man team on an online game I created that became popular. Free to play (before microtransactions too; you literally could not spend money in this game) and yet people would still make demands of me daily, like I was a huge corporation. People don't get it.

I'm just being fussy about the word minuscule, because you were describing a team several times bigger than some of us ever work with!

Fair enough, in relative terms to other indie teams they're pretty big. Bit of over emphasis to make my point!

Edit: Irrelevant stuff for another thread.

Pit-Pat

Quote from: brat-sampson on August 01, 2016, 07:04:25 AM
It seems there's at least three camps on this game already, Imma call them pragmatists, unrealists and pricks. The Unrealists are super-hyped for a game that only exists in their heads, will loudly sing about how amazing it's going to be and make claims that bear no relation to anything SM/HG have ever actually said. These guys are probably in for a slow post-denial-phase collapse of some kind. Pragmatists look at the trailers and the info, get that this is going to be a fun little universe to explore and tinker in, think that's cool and are looking forward to it. Pricks think the game wont live up to the unrealists standards, are looking for evidence of it all over and just like pissing on parades and being little assholes about the whole thing.

I'm going to assume most of the unrealists and pricks are younger than the pragmatists too. It just seems that somehow this game in particular has attracted a fuckton of them.

I think I'm a pragmatist veering towards prick. I'd definitely like to believe it's an interesting universe with lots to do, but I have a feeling it will be exceptionally bare-bones, something like an Assassin's Creed stripped of any story quests, with only procedurally-generated "climb the tower"/"find the feathers"/"listen to the conversation"-style tasks to complete.

I'd be extremely happy to be wrong though, except that I'm skint and my already-stretched multiplayer gaming time is taken up with Overwatch.

surreal

Hype train is well and truly derailed over on the /r/nomansskythegame subreddit.  The guy who got the early version has already reached the centre after about 30hrs and posted quite a bit of feedback on what goes on as far as the "grind" part - sounds like there may be some game-breaking imbalance in the trading system as far as pricing goes, he says there are fairly easy to acquire items that sell for a huge amount and let you upgrade far too quickly. 

Who knows, that may be fixed in the day-one patch, but it seems to have deflated a lot of expectations over there...

Shay Chaise

I'd say it's been largely quite positive, in that most people are settling into the mindset that it looks like what it was always advertised to be by Hello Games. It does sound like there are some bugs and imbalances but it's got a 4 gig day one patch coming, which surely will address some of this stuff. I mean, Bloodborne shipped with serious frame and loading screen issues, standard these days.

A second leaker has emerged, apparently he just bought it in Walmart. I might get down Asda and see what I can wrangle.

Here's a loop of his two hour stream:

https://www.twitch.tv/averylipsit/mobile

Twed

i'll be happy as long as it gives a good sense of hugeness and doesn't get in the way of projecting the player's own imagination on it all.

Shay Chaise

One thing that blew my mind was the fact that you could spend months of real life walking on one planet, just like if you started walking on this one.

biggytitbo

I went through this hype with Bandersnatch so I'm used to it.

Shay Chaise

Kengi01 is streaming again on Twitch. It looks much more fun than the first streamer's initial impressions, and funnily enough he's updated his impressions with a list of much more varied and positive experiences. I'll probably buy this on US PSN to play it a day early.

pandadeath

I caved in and watched a bit of one of the streams earlier and now I'm annoyed that I don't have enough money to get a PS4. I've hurriedly entered a bunch of competitions in the hopes of getting one before next week.

Beagle 2

Just watched the stream too and I'm afraid I'm on the vot iz point side. It looks absolutely boring as fuck.

I had been tempted, but I think I'll wait to see if anybody can report anything entertaining happening whatsoever.

Shay Chaise

It's an exploration and crafting game, primarily. If you're not interested in the idea of landing on a planet which most likely nobody else will ever even see, and then exploring its depths for materials to upgrade your ship and gear, then yeah, there's not an awful lot else. There's gunplay and space battles but it's not a shooter.

Barry Admin

Quote from: pandadeath on August 03, 2016, 08:53:19 PM
I caved in and watched a bit of one of the streams earlier and now I'm annoyed that I don't have enough money to get a PS4. I've hurriedly entered a bunch of competitions in the hopes of getting one before next week.

If you've got an Xbox or decent PC, just get Elite: Dangerous.  NMS seems to be cribbing a lot of content and ideas from that, although I'm not fully up on how accurate NMS is.  ED is based around the idea of 1:1 space travel, and of presenting a universe based on all the existing data we have.  So you can do the thing of finding new planets, and stamping your name on them if you find them first, and they added planetary landings, where you can mooch around for days in a nifty buggy, looking for stuff.  I'll definitely get into it again, as they are adding more and more to it - for instance, a future update will bring in ships that allow multiple pilots, and you'll even be able to launch (and pilot) fighters from the bigger ships. 

There's loads of mysteries that are still confounding people as well, e.g. Thargoids!  It's also got a more mature graphical style/UI, which I prefer, and they do cool things like organise regular community events, so that you do actually end up bumping in to other pilots who are mooching about the place.  It's very free and open in terms of letting you choose your role, too - for instance, you can just trade goods back and forth in vehicles designed for so doing, or you can embrace the life of a pirate, and interdict other players or NPC's, and demand they hand over all their shit.  Or you can go and mine asteroids if you want to chill. 

pandadeath

Quote from: Barry Admin on August 04, 2016, 12:07:44 AM
If you've got an Xbox or decent PC, just get Elite: Dangerous.  NMS seems to be cribbing a lot of content and ideas from that, although I'm not fully up on how accurate NMS is.  ED is based around the idea of 1:1 space travel, and of presenting a universe based on all the existing data we have.  So you can do the thing of finding new planets, and stamping your name on them if you find them first, and they added planetary landings, where you can mooch around for days in a nifty buggy, looking for stuff.  I'll definitely get into it again, as they are adding more and more to it - for instance, a future update will bring in ships that allow multiple pilots, and you'll even be able to launch (and pilot) fighters from the bigger ships. 

There's loads of mysteries that are still confounding people as well, e.g. Thargoids!  It's also got a more mature graphical style/UI, which I prefer, and they do cool things like organise regular community events, so that you do actually end up bumping in to other pilots who are mooching about the place.  It's very free and open in terms of letting you choose your role, too - for instance, you can just trade goods back and forth in vehicles designed for so doing, or you can embrace the life of a pirate, and interdict other players or NPC's, and demand they hand over all their shit.  Or you can go and mine asteroids if you want to chill.

Elite does sound pretty cool, but I don't have an Xbox One and my most powerful computer is a year old Macbook, so I've got no hopes of running it. I've been planning on getting a PS4 for a while anyway which is why 'No Man's Sky' appeals to me, I was just planning on getting one in October for the launch of 'The Last Guardian' and thought I'd pick up NMS then if it still appealed to me, but the little bit of gameplay I saw yesterday has unfortunately hyped me up.

Bhazor

#85
The hateperbole[nb]A word I have just invented and am now in the process of trademarking[/nb] around this game is insane. They announced it as a game where you fly around a planet, look at some procedurally generated critters, put down your tag then move on to the next planet. They have shown footage of a game where you fly around a planet, get out and look at some procedurally generated critters, put down your tag then move on to the next planet. Yet theres so many people coming out of the woodwork to say how it's going to be shit because it doesn't have the things it never promised it would have. Every article is a breeding ground of the kind of cretins who use the word Sheeple. As if they're Morpheus yanking the cord out of the back of your head.

If the idea of a game where you fly around a planet, get out and look at some procedurally generated critters, put down your tag then move on to the next planet doesn't appeal to you then don't buy a game here you you fly around a planet, get out and look at some procedurally generated critters, put down your tag then move on to the next planet.

Personally I like the idea  of a game where you fly around a planet, get out and look at some procedurally generated critters, put down your tag then move on to the next planet. Because I liked Protheus which was a game where you walk around a planet, get lost and look at some procedurally generated critters, click on some rocks and then move on to the next planet.

Bhazor


Twed

Huh, had no idea Sandy White was involved. That's awesome. He made Ant Attack a year before I was born. Gives me some hope about avoiding eventual burnout. And wonderful, he invented a digital screamer. Love that guy.

Penfold

My copy arrived this morning.

I am happy.

As usual I have nothing further to add at this time.

Shay Chaise

Quick heads up, there's a massive day one patch coming in on Monday 8th and the servers will be reset, wiping any progress you might make before then.

Best not even play it, but if you courier it to me, I'll take the hit.