Author Topic: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good  (Read 6906 times)

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxmtYdEWVzo

Sega have been smart and involved people from the fantastic Sonic hacking/remake community in this. It looks perfect and the tune (Tee Lopes?) is great. The melody just screams Sonic/Sega, and those MJ yelps are a nice touch.

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2016, 02:24:15 PM »
I'm not sold on this.

First, it looks like yet another empty appeal to nostalgia - inevitable I suppose, because Sega have proven incapable of actually forging a decent future for the franchise, as much as I dearly want an actually good 3D Sonic game (I know a lot of people like Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations but they're victims of stockholm syndrome). Second, it, um, really does look an awful lot like a fan game made up of existing Sonic assets just stitched together. The stuff that is new looks weird to me; the high-speed running sprite reminds me nastily of the Sonic Spinball sprites, not a good look. As far as I can tell they only actually show one new stage in the trailer. The drop dash looks fun, though.

Not a fan of the all-female cast either.

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2016, 02:25:13 PM »
It looks very nice, but couldn't I just play one of the old games? As much as I never liked the lanky/thin redesign they would probably use [nb]Although I like what I've seen of the Sonic Boom cartoon[/nb], I do think the  New Super Mario Bros route is the way to do something like this; bringing back some of the old appeal lost over the course of the franchise, but clearly offering something new as well. Hope it does well for old times sake though.

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Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2016, 02:32:22 PM »
I do think the  New Super Mario Bros route is the way to do something like this; bringing back some of the old appeal lost over the course of the franchise, but clearly offering something new as well
It was called Sonic 4 and everybody hated it. To be fair, that's because they did a shit job.

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Second, it, um, really does look an awful lot like a fan game made up of existing Sonic assets just stitched together.
I don't think it looks like existing assets. It looks like how they would have made a new Sonic game in 1994 if they had today's hardware. Sure, it's the same Green Hill Zone, but they're not just going to shove a straight remake out at us. It's going to be different, in some way.

But yeah, this is solely for people who loved classic Sonic and would like there to be more of it. If you're not into that then maybe this isn't for you.

Personally I want them to do classic-style stuff if they can do it well. There are enough games being made that I can play other ones, if I want something entirely new.

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2016, 02:44:42 PM »
I don't think it looks like existing assets.

Well... um... they are! I mean, obviously Green Hill uses the same enemy sprites, level art etc. The Sonic sprite is clearly the Sonic 1 sprite they've mucked about with and made some new versions of. edit: the item boxes are also old assets, and so are the rotating platforms in the new stage.

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It looks like how they would have made a new Sonic game in 1994 if they had today's hardware.

Thing is, I don't reckon that's true. This so far looks much closer to Sonic 1 and 2 than it does to Sonic 3K. Sonic 3K pushed hard in new directions; the major difference, to me, is that at that point, had they made Sonic 4, they wouldn't have been mining the "retro" feel, whereas this is clearly backward-looking by design. Which is just less interesting to me.

Still, there's some gameplay footage here, and I'm a bit more interested now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8d4Dep2hvQ&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bkLRHsdZp8&feature=youtu.be

It looks very smooth, there's a lot of nice extra animation, the physics look pretty much perfect, and it looks like there's even some smart level design, with some smarmy placement of springs and bouncers. It's a good facsimile!

Twed

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Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2016, 02:55:41 PM »
Well... um... they are! I mean, obviously Green Hill uses the same enemy sprites, level art etc. The Sonic sprite is clearly the Sonic 1 sprite they've mucked about with and made some new versions of. edit: the item boxes are also old assets, and so are the rotating platforms in the new stage.
That's not reusing assets, that's redrawing classic Sonic stuff. Reusing assets implies lazily ripping 64-pixel sprites from the old games.

Why would they redesign Sonic for this?

I get what you're saying, and I'll disappoint you a step further by showing you this video of a basically straight-up remake of Green Hill Zone 1. If you're not happy with the idea of remixed levels in a new, shiny engine with new shiny graphics sitting next to new shiny zones then this probably isn't for you. I don't know how anybody who actually likes classic Sonic couldn't be excited by this though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bkLRHsdZp8

Thing is, I don't reckon that's true. This so far looks much closer to Sonic 1 and 2 than it does to Sonic 3K. Sonic 3K pushed hard in new directions; the major difference, to me, is that at that point, had they made Sonic 4, they wouldn't have been mining the "retro" feel, whereas this is clearly backward-looking by design. Which is just less interesting to me.
I don't think 3K is a million miles from this, but I do think this is paying tribute to the Sonic 2 era far more heavily from what we've seen.

Still, there's some gameplay footage here, and I'm a bit more interested now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8d4Dep2hvQ&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bkLRHsdZp8&feature=youtu.be
Ah, you've already seen all the stuff I just tried to show you. Whoops.

It's a good facsimile!
That's the point, I guess. I think it's just fine for that to exist.

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2016, 03:05:58 PM »
That's not reusing assets, that's redrawing classic Sonic stuff. Reusing assets implies lazily ripping 64-pixel sprites from the old games.

Fair enough, wrong technical term. They're re-using old stuff, then.

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Why would they redesign Sonic for this?

Well, I dunno, why did they redesign Sonic for Sonic 2 and Sonic 3? Because that's what sequels do! That's kind of my point - Sonic 3 was a proper, expensive, triple-A, big-effort sequel, and this is a throwback. Which I guess is what everyone wants?

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If you're not happy with the idea of remixed levels in a new, shiny engine with new shiny graphics sitting next to new shiny zones then this probably isn't for you. I don't know how anybody who actually likes classic Sonic couldn't be excited by this though ...
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That's the point, I guess. I think it's just fine for that to exist.

Well, yes, indeed, I think it's fine too. And based on those videos also looking fine, I'll probably play it when it comes out, which would make it the first new Sonic game I've bought in... erm... fifteen years?! Christ!

But I do see it as a little bit depressing. This is what the Sonic franchise is doomed to be, seemingly: a series of throwbacks, some successful, some less successful. But what I'm wishing for, here on this forum on the internet, is a truly new, great, "proper" Sonic game, something with a sense of vision and urgency and freshness that leaves other games in its wake. You know, like the 2D games this one is aping used to.

But I'm sure Sonic Mania will be fine. Completely fine. It will be completely fine. Everything's fine.

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2016, 03:09:21 PM »
I'm yet to play a 2D Sonic game that I didn't like (except Genesis on GBA and Blast on Game Gear) so this will be peachy keen yes thanks get it in.

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2016, 03:10:49 PM »
What, even Sonic Spinball?

Even... Sonic 4?

Even... Sonic Labyrinth?

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2016, 03:11:02 PM »
Also Sonic Generations was fucking brilliant Popcorn you absolute madman

(Alright it wasn't "fucking brilliant" but it was ruddy good imo)

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2016, 03:12:27 PM »
What, even Sonic Spinball?

Even... Sonic 4?

Even... Sonic Labyrinth?

I like Spinball, I like 4, and Labyrinth doesn't count ;) I mean the side-scrolling ones.

Maybe I'm just easily pleased but I think that kind of gameplay is hard to get wrong. I remember a lot of whinging about the physics in Sonic 4 but they were mostly videos of people walking slowly up walls and things trying to intentionally break them?

I mean Sonic 4 is low on the totem pole but it's still good fun for me. I still like it, but 2D Sonic is like my favourite fucking thing ever so I'm bias(ed)

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2016, 03:12:45 PM »
I am a loose canon of mad opinions, admittedly. I reckon Crystal Skull's better than Raiders.

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2016, 03:14:50 PM »
Also you know what? Sonic Labyrinth isn't that bad for what it is. It's an alright isometric puzzle thing.

It's alright.

Twed

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Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2016, 03:16:02 PM »
What about Sonic Teaches Holocaust Denial? Fucking monster.

"Jump higher to avoid evidence of concentration camps!" - that's what you like.

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2016, 03:17:02 PM »
Well, it was the first one I ever played so I'm nostalgic, you know? I love how you can use Knuckles to climb the walls of the mass graves.

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2016, 03:18:15 PM »
SO ANYWAY this new one looks like it's taking a lot of aesthetic cues from Sonic CD, which is my favourite one every other day so that's good.

:)

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2016, 04:12:14 PM »
SO ANYWAY this new one looks like it's taking a lot of aesthetic cues from Sonic CD, which is my favourite one every other day so that's good.

:)

I reckon it looks more like Chaotix.

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2016, 04:34:28 PM »
Oh yeah you're right. Chaotix is really shit though so I hope it doesn't play like it.

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2016, 07:25:10 PM »
Also Sonic Generations was fucking brilliant Popcorn you absolute madman

(Alright it wasn't "fucking brilliant" but it was ruddy good imo)

At the time, I saw it as Sega finally getting Sonic back on track...

Then Sonic Boom happened. People will be quick to say it's not a "true" Sonic game, as it was by people other than Sonic Team, but how many people would actually know or care about that distinction?

The 3D Sonic title also announced... I'm slightly concerned:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCh9--2xcKk

First of all, I'm happy Classic Sonic is in this one. He's adorable [nb]I actually wish Generations was a reboot and this would be his default look again going forwards.[/nb], and that suggests the Generations style gameplay will remain (A good thing), but it looks dark and now I'm having Vietnam flashbacks to Shadow and '06. I hope that's not how the entire game will look and the finished thing will have a brighter aesthetic, but as a first look, it doesn't send the right impression.

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Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2016, 08:03:35 PM »
Then Sonic Boom happened. People will be quick to say it's not a "true" Sonic game, as it was by people other than Sonic Team, but how many people would actually know or care about that distinction?

Quite. It's irrelevant who developed it, Sega ultimately thought "this is what Sonic needs". Sonic Team doesn't hold much currency anyway, they've developed some right rancid shit; they aren't the same people who captured the magic of originals[nb]This is totally unresearched, I may be 100% wrong here[/spoiler]. Like the Simpsons, Sonic has been tripe longer than it's been good.

I am cautiously optimistic about this, it has some pedigree with Christian Whitehead involved. However, it does look very Sonic CD, a game I've never been that keen on. Vast, poorly put together levels with a stale art style.

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2016, 08:44:29 PM »
However, it does look very Sonic CD, a game I've never been that keen on. Vast, poorly put together levels with a stale art style.

Hmm, sorry no. That game has a fantastic aesthetic and the levels are anything but poorly put together.

I do understand why people think that, though. It's not conventional for the series. It's a difficult game to play by comparison, but it's very rewarding once you start figuring out your paths and manipulating time. It's my joint favourite game in the series.

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Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2016, 11:11:00 PM »
That Sonic goes a bit fast dunnee

Slow down mate

Alright

What's the need

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2016, 10:16:29 AM »
Tell you what. Tell you what.

I bet the music's shit in this. Bet you fucking anything. Bet it's shite.

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2016, 10:40:48 AM »
It looks like total shite. I know it's just a 2 minute trailer but the levels look dull as fuuuuck. The feel is totally off, it looks really wrong to my eyes.
Eugh, I can imagine playing this on a dreary Sunday afternoon and getting depressed.

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2016, 10:54:00 AM »
It looks like total shite. I know it's just a 2 minute trailer but the levels look dull as fuuuuck. The feel is totally off, it looks really wrong to my eyes.

The "feel" thing I can't agree with. Have you seen the gameplay footage posted in this thread? The movement, physics, 'weight' etc all look exactly the same as the old games, it's the one thing I have total confidence they've done right, if they're going to be doing it at all. It's obviously built using the same engine they used to port (and fuck around with) Sonic CD, Sonic 1 and Sonic 2.

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2016, 11:34:09 AM »
That Sonic goes a bit fast dunnee

Slow down mate

Alright

What's the need

where's the fire Sonic

where is the fire?

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Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2016, 12:05:03 PM »
inevitable I suppose, because Sega have proven incapable of actually forging a decent future for the franchise

And all they have to do is make Sonic GO.  They'd be raking it in.

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2016, 12:39:24 PM »
I'd never heard of Sonic CD until this thread. It looks amazing. The game with proper developments that don't feel like crap addons except it came out in 1993 like there's an alternate universe. And it has some boss music. I can't get my head round this.

New level like a bunch of things I've seen before but with a new façade and also ugly.

Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2016, 12:54:14 PM »
I reckon Sonic CD is like a lot of cult classics, which is to say it's more interesting and unusual and charming than it is actually any good.

It's a game full of imagination but none of it makes any fucking sense. There's no purpose to the time travel aspect. The level design is a mad jumble of random crap with no direction or flow. Metal Sonic rules (at least in that game he did) but he's wasted on a weird boss battle and never used again.

The soundtrack is fascinating, though, or at least the Japanese version is. And oh my god those animated sequences! They remain the coolest depiction of the character ever.

Cloud

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Re: Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2016, 01:08:16 PM »
I embarked on a journey of playing the Sonic games from 1 very recently, and Sonic CD is by far the best of the bunch so far.  So I wouldn't say it's a nostalgia thing - I'd only ever played the old Game Gear games.  Loved it, fun animations, neat idea, great music, enjoyable levels.  Though I did find I needed maps and savestates if I didn't want to be playing it for the next 6 years, and its tendency to throw you into the wrong time travel posts got a tad frustrating.