Sonic Mania - a new 2D Sonic game that looks like it will be good

[AsparagusTrevor]

Really? A bunch of lives on the flying battery boss? I haven't died against him at all! Just knock him into the spikes and don't hit the spikes! I don't think that ones poses a threat at all really.

Yeah, I figured out straight away what I had to do, it just didn't seem to play ball, he wouldn't go into the spikes. Weirdly though, after I'd tried to beat him about 12 times and gave up for that day, the next time I fired up the game a couple of days later I beat it first go.

One thing that the game does poorly is it doesn't always make it clear what parts of obstacles, enemies and bosses you can hit, what parts will hurt you and what parts you'll bounce off. The Flying Battery boss is a good example with the platforms which look like you'll be crushed under them but you pass through them safely.

Personally hate the Oil Ocean boss, it requires a smidgen of patience that I don't have.

I actually meant Oil Ocean boss when I said Lava Reef before, the stupid octopus. The actual Lava Reef boss is quite easy, although suffers from the distinction problem what I mentioned above.

[Obel]

Were you spinning on the pole before hitting him? He'll rarely hit the spikes unless you used the momentum of the pole.

Always the way when you're stuck on a game! Give it a day and you'll do it first time.

[Replies From View]

Yeah, I figured out straight away what I had to do, it just didn't seem to play ball, he wouldn't go into the spikes. Weirdly though, after I'd tried to beat him about 12 times and gave up for that day, the next time I fired up the game a couple of days later I beat it first go.

Not that weird; your subconscious would have been clogged up for all that time working it out.

[Kelvin]

I know this is old news now, and most people here have probably nailed it already, but last night I finally got all the gold medals in the blue Sphere stages, and nailed the Super Sonic final ending. Embarrassingly, I had already achieved silver medals on all of them, before deciding that I wanted to go for gold, meaning I had to go back and do the whole lot all over again.

There's something very relaxing about the Blue Sphere stages once you get into them, though.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Do the UFO bonus stages represent the first time that PS1/Saturn era 3D graphics have crossed over from being a load of crude rubbish to nostalgically retro? Will we soon see more of that, the same way the last few years have seen a wave of 2D pixel art indie games?

[biggytitbo]

I played a bit of this the other day and was really impressed at how nice it looked. Any reboots of old games should be done like this, 2d pixel art but with spruced up animation and effects. A new Streets of Rage like this would be amazing.

[Kelvin]

Do the UFO bonus stages represent the first time that PS1/Saturn era 3D graphics have crossed over from being a load of crude rubbish to nostalgically retro? Will we soon see more of that, the same way the last few years have seen a wave of 2D pixel art indie games?

I suspect so. We've already had Yooka Laylee which tried to recapture the affection for that era's 3D platformers. I imagine we're not too far away from games which try to pay homage to those early 3D graphical styles too. 

[Kelvin]

I played a bit of this the other day and was really impressed at how nice it looked. Any reboots of old games should be done like this, 2d pixel art but with spruced up animation and effects. A new Streets of Rage like this would be amazing.

It's an absolutely gorgeous game. Playing it handheld on Switch feels like playing the most beautiful game gear game imaginable.

[biggytitbo]

I suspect so. We've already had Yooka Laylee which tried to recapture the affection for that era's 3D platformers. I imagine we're not too far away from games which try to pay homage to those early 3D graphical styles too.

Unfortunetly that early 3D era is probably the least well regarded in classic gaming and the one that holds up the worst. Many of those games play really badly and arguably look far worse than the 16 bit games they replaced.

[Kelvin]

Unfortunetly that early 3D era is probably the least well regarded in classic gaming and the one that holds up the worst. Many of those games play really badly and arguably look far worse than the 16 bit games they replaced.

Absolutely. But I still think that a game that captured the graphical style, but added modern visual and gameplay elements would tap into nostalgia, in the same way that Shovel Knight tapped into nostalgia for NES gaming while also improving on that era's games in almost every way.

Scrap things like fogging,  and focus on low polygon art design, for example.

[biggytitbo]

It could perhaps work if it was heavily stylised. Fix the frame rate but add some of the trademarks of those consoles - you could instantly make a game look like PS1 with some horrendous texture warping, and a game look like N64 by smearing it in vaseline and low res textures. I just doubt you could make that also look good, like the retro 16-bit style games do.

[Kelvin]

It could perhaps work if it was heavily stylised. Fix the frame rate but add some of the trademarks of those consoles - you could instantly make a game look like PS1 with some horrendous texture warping, and a game look like N64 by smearing it in vaseline and low res textures. I just doubt you could make that also look good, like the retro 16-bit style games do.

Of course you'd fix the frame rate. People don't really want to play a game that's exactly like the games of that era. They want to play a game that plays how they remember them playing. That's what Shovel Knight did for NES gaming. That era of games has aged badly, too, in my opinion, but Yachtclub Games created a experience that took the very best of that era, and captured the look and feel, not as it truly was, but as seen through our false, nostalgic memories of that period. Sonic Mania is similar. It looks like we remember Sonic games looking when we were children, when in reality they never looked as good as Mania. It's about echoing that nostalgia, rather than the actual reality of the period.   

[biggytitbo]

Sonic Mania is a step up but playing say Sonic 3 on a big telly still looks great, as does Yoshis Island or Super Mario world. Those games hold up complrtly in their own right. 8 bit obviously less so, but 32-bit early 3d worse of all I'd say.

[Kelvin]

Sonic Mania is a step up but playing say Sonic 3 on a big telly still looks great, as does Yoshis Island or Super Mario world. Those games hold up complrtly in their own right. 8 bit obviously less so, but 32-bit early 3d worse of all I'd say.

Yes, I agree that the 16 bit era holds up very well, compared to every previous and most subsequent generations. The graphics just have a timeless quality that has been lost with the push for greater realism. The fact remains that, by your own admission, 32 and 64 bit games have a very distinctive look, which people remember more fondly than the reality. By improving things like fogging and slowdown, which were problems at the time, I honestly think that a game with 64 bit graphics and gameplay elements would be massively popular, if it stuck the landing.

Yooka Laylee had the potential to be one such game, at least in terms of gameplay, and the hype leading up to that game was considerable. Sadly, by all accounts, it wasn't actually very good, but you could see that excitement for it beforehand. In some ways, even Mario Odyssey appears to be an attempt to return to the 64 bit era's collectathon platformer. There's nostaligia for that era's games, and the chunky, polygonal graphics are a part of that.   

[Twed]

It's a good game, probably the best Sonic game since the mid-90s. It suffers from a chronic lack of identity besides slavish adherence to expectations, which can be amusing but never truly satisfying. As a result it's a fun experience that feels a little bit masturbatory.

This is my, original opinion.

[madhair60]

It's a good game, probably the best Sonic game since the mid-90s. It suffers from a chronic lack of identity besides slavish adherence to expectations, which can be amusing but never truly satisfying. As a result it's a fun experience that feels a little bit masturbatory.

This is my, original opinion.

Oh god no.

[Sin Agog]

It's a good game, probably the best Sonic game since the mid-90s. It suffers from a chronic lack of identity besides slavish adherence to expectations, which can be amusing but never truly satisfying. As a result it's a fun experience that feels a little bit masturbatory.

This is my, original opinion.

Best Sonic game since the mid-'90s is Sonic Racing Transformed.

[Twed]

Oh god no.

Those podcast people are new to the word "masturbatory" aren't they?

[madhair60]

Oh, jesus. Why are you doing this?

Why?

[Twed]

You did it to me. I was in the bath trying to listen to podcasts, naked, fat, and then your review barged in invaded my privacy.

[Twed]

I'm sorry for teasing, it is just my way of saying "cool contribution" cloaked in my inability to be sincere.

[popcorn]

How can I go on the podcast?

[Twed]

Simply say something irredeemably gay.

[Replies From View]

Surprised it took Sega so long to come up with a blue hedgehog as a mascot, to be honest.

[madhair60]

I'm sorry for teasing, it is just my way of saying "cool contribution" cloaked in my inability to be sincere.

;)

Here's the fucked thing, I don't even remember talking about this on any kind of podcast. I remember saying/writing that, but I can't recall the source. Assumedly it's an ep of Video World. Oh god

[Twed]

Ah, I figured you knew. This must have been confusing, then.

https://retronauts.com/article/1211/face-it-episode-222-has-got-sonic-mania-bad

Towards the end.

[madhair60]

Oh fuck my ARSE. I was on R'nauts pod. Fuck. They could have told me!! I LITERALLY WORK THERE FFS

[Twed]

I assumed they would have. They did point out that you're a contributor.

[popcorn]

Hello madhair, can I go on the podcast please.

[madhair60]

Hello madhair, can I go on the podcast please.

I haven't even been on it really.

You can have a go on my cock if you like?