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prog bands ranking

Started by Dirty Boy, July 27, 2016, 03:34:55 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

BlodwynPig

Quote from: greenman on August 03, 2016, 08:15:57 AM
To get egg on my beard and embrace prog prog what about the Enid? still rather silly in places but more heartfelt and less masturbatory...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdU5MQKDXsk

My favourite track is Chaldean Crossing, but that certainly dips more into new-age/world music/ambient with nods to prog

https://youtu.be/ZnfXyf8cLCY

Artie Fufkin



Artie Fufkin


the hum

Any love for the short-lived super group UK? Their debut album was brilliant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMu7XUc9OcI

Their 2nd (and last) Danger Money wasn't too shabby either, although it very much hints at the commercial direction John Wetton would take with Asia.

the hum

#95
Quote from: Shit Good Nose on August 01, 2016, 01:20:03 PM
As for ELP, much as I dislike them and blame them almost solely for the bad name prog got (most of the other main players had either split or dramatically reduced their on-stage flamboyance by 1976/77, whilst ELP still had a juggernaut each and took entire orchestras on the road with them and made even the Floyd's stage shows seem low budget by comparison), I still think their version of Fanfare For the Common Man is an absolute belter by anyone's standards.

I mentioned this very thing in the Keith Emerson obituary thread. As far as I'm concerned ELP's first three albums are great, but virtually everything they did subsequently ('Fanfare' very much the exception, I love it too) provided ammunition to right-on journalists who were already keen to shoot them and their cohorts down in flames. Topographic Oceans, along with the near totality of Rick Wakeman's solo output, provided the rest of the citations they required. Any mid-90's 'Q' or NME article that deigned to discuss prog would serve this up as if it were all the scene had ever consisted of.

BlodwynPig

The cleaner at work approached me with wide eyes this morning "have you heard GTR?" he announced. No? Grand Theft Railro.... "nOOOOO"..."its Hackett, Howe and Kevin Bacon"

Hmmm....sounds interesting. I'm surprised they weren't called "The Six Degrees"

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: the hum on August 04, 2016, 12:08:12 AM
Any love for the short-lived super group UK? Their debut album was brilliant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMu7XUc9OcI

Their 2nd (and last) Danger Money wasn't too shabby either, although it very much hints at the commercial direction John Wetton would take with Asia.

Amazing musicians to be sure, but they were a bit too poppy for my liking.  But yeah, they still fit right in.


Quote from: the hum on August 04, 2016, 12:50:02 AM
I mentioned this very thing in the Keith Emerson obituary thread. As far as I'm concerned ELP's first three albums are great, but virtually everything they did subsequently ('Fanfare' very much the exception, I love it too) provided ammunition to right-on journalists who were already keen to shoot them and their cohorts down in flames. Topographic Oceans, along with the near totality of Rick Wakeman's solo output, provided the rest of the citations they required. Any mid-90's 'Q' or NME article that deigned to discuss prog would serve this up as if it were all the scene had ever consisted of.

The difference is that Topographic Oceans has aged VERY well indeed, whereas most of ELP's output hasn't.


Quote from: BlodwynPig on August 04, 2016, 08:36:57 AM
The cleaner at work approached me with wide eyes this morning "have you heard GTR?" he announced. No? Grand Theft Railro.... "nOOOOO"..."its Hackett, Howe and Kevin Bacon"

Hmmm....sounds interesting. I'm surprised they weren't called "The Six Degrees"

GTR is, by an enormous margin, the nadir of Hackett's career.  I would say the same of Howe, except that in his case it isn't...

BlodwynPig

Quote from: Shit Good Nose on August 04, 2016, 04:28:16 PM
Amazing musicians to be sure, but they were a bit too poppy for my liking.  But yeah, they still fit right in.


The difference is that Topographic Oceans has aged VERY well indeed, whereas most of ELP's output hasn't.


GTR is, by an enormous margin, the nadir of Hackett's career.  I would say the same of Howe, except that in his case it isn't...

I did kind of shrug and try and get away from him once he started talking about the group "a cross between Asia and Yes". No thanks.

the hum

Quote from: BlodwynPig on August 04, 2016, 04:31:21 PM
I did kind of shrug and try and get away from him once he started talking about the group "a cross between Asia and Yes". No thanks.

They infamously had a three letter review of their album in Rolling Stone:

SHT

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: the hum on August 04, 2016, 08:29:51 PM
They infamously had a three letter review of their album in Rolling Stone:

SHT

Yep.  I think Howe still considers it as a respectable high point in his career outside of Yes, to the point where not so long ago he placed it above the ABWH project (okay, the album wasn't amazing, but it was okay and they were brilliant live...unlike GTR), but Hackett is rather more realistic and open about its failure, and has gone on record to say that it's pretty much the only thing he's done that he's embarrassed about.

ASFTSN

Posted about them in another thread, but any Gryphon fans?  Is there anything else similar to their mid/later period I should check out (old or new).  Vaguely silly and whimsical/pastoral/medievalist/mind-bendingly complicated, and a bonus if it's instrumental.

BlodwynPig

Quote from: ASFTSN on August 09, 2016, 08:35:29 AM
Posted about them in another thread, but any Gryphon fans?  Is there anything else similar to their mid/later period I should check out (old or new).  Vaguely silly and whimsical/pastoral/medievalist/mind-bendingly complicated, and a bonus if it's instrumental.

we've talked about them here already, not in detail. I only own the self-titled album with the Henry VIII penned track. I love it but its not for immediate repeated listening (probably because at the time I was discovering a band a day). I got it together with another oddity that could be classed as prog (Hare Krishna Prog!):

Golden Avatar

wrt Gryphon
I've heard the Red Queen album once but can't remember it. Probably worth a revisit. Didn't they play London last year?

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: BlodwynPig on August 09, 2016, 08:44:43 AM
I've heard the Red Queen album once but can't remember it. Probably worth a revisit. Didn't they play London last year?

It's between that and Midnight Mushrumps as their best album.  But then two, maybe three good albums and two abysmal ones isn't the best track record.

I believe they are on tour right now...

Hemulen

Quote from: Shit Good Nose on August 09, 2016, 12:12:40 PM
It's between that and Midnight Mushrumps as their best album.  But then two, maybe three good albums and two abysmal ones isn't the best track record.

I believe they are on tour right now...

Ah, now that's not fair. Neither Raindance or Treason could reasonably be called abysmal. The former has the glorious (Ein Klein) Heldenleben which is worth the price of admission and the latter, whilst bearing almost no musical resemblance to their earlier work, is a joyous, wonky little album with more than a whiff of Gentle Giant about it.

I bloody love me some Gryphon, I do.

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: Hemulen on August 09, 2016, 03:05:50 PM
Ah, now that's not fair. Neither Raindance or Treason could reasonably be called abysmal. The former has the glorious (Ein Klein) Heldenleben which is worth the price of admission and the latter, whilst bearing almost no musical resemblance to their earlier work, is a joyous, wonky little album with more than a whiff of Gentle Giant about it.

Bad Gentle Giant...

Admittedly I've not listened to any of either of them for over 20 years, and even then I listened to them all the way through once and hated them both.

But perhaps I ought to give them another bash, especially as Treason seems to be so highly regarded these days.

BlodwynPig

dun ne nun nun nerrrr

dun de der


What's the general consensus on Van Der Graaf Generator? I'm not as big on them as I was a few years back, but there's no denying Peter Hammill has done some stunningly intense work. One of my first prog experiences was watching a vid of them doing Man-Erg in 2011 that came free with a magazine: that mid-section was fucking terrifying, perhaps even more so for coming from a bunch of 60 year olds.

Are there any more groups in the "angry prog" mold?

Hemulen

Quote from: A Car With No Doors on August 09, 2016, 04:09:29 PM
Are there any more groups in the "angry prog" mold?

King Crimson certainly have their "angry prog" moments. Gnidrolog's album "Lady Lake" would certainly qualify as well. There's probably a ton more but that's all I can really think of off the top of my head... A lot of your moodier Rock In Opposition/Avant-Prog bands like Univers Zero, Present, Thinking Plague etc. would be worth considering in this context, too.

BlodwynPig


ASFTSN

Quote from: Shit Good Nose on August 09, 2016, 12:12:40 PM
It's between that and Midnight Mushrumps as their best album.  But then two, maybe three good albums and two abysmal ones isn't the best track record.

I believe they are on tour right now...

I reckon Red Queen is probably better overall but it does lose some of Mushrumps rustic/medieval charm by upping the synthesiser wackery.

First album is lovely in an entirely different way.  Not one for playing to show your coolness credentials though...

ASFTSN

Why are Rush always the band that people slam in these threads?  They've got some absolutely fantastic albums.

Although I suppose you have to have at least a tolerance for metal to enjoy some of it.

greenman

I'd guess Rush are viewed as being a bit too "Bill and Tedish" for your hardcore real ale drinker.

BlodwynPig

I don't know. I dislike everything I've heard from Rush. Just don't like it.

ASFTSN

Fair enough.  Always surprised there isn't more love for Signals in particular from fans of Selling England era Genesis.

Artie Fufkin

Quote from: A Car With No Doors on August 09, 2016, 04:09:29 PM
Are there any more groups in the "angry prog" mold?

Would you class Mastodon and/or Baroness as prog ?

Artie Fufkin

Quote from: ASFTSN on August 10, 2016, 10:51:58 AM
Fair enough.  Always surprised there isn't more love for Signals in particular from fans of Selling England era Genesis.

With the exception of Grace Under Pressure, Rush were awesome up til and including 1985's Power Windows. Me and my friend would play PW constantly when we worked at Currys. This would annoy our manager greatly.

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: A Car With No Doors on August 09, 2016, 04:09:29 PM
What's the general consensus on Van Der Graaf Generator? I'm not as big on them as I was a few years back, but there's no denying Peter Hammill has done some stunningly intense work. One of my first prog experiences was watching a vid of them doing Man-Erg in 2011 that came free with a magazine: that mid-section was fucking terrifying, perhaps even more so for coming from a bunch of 60 year olds.

Are there any more groups in the "angry prog" mold?

I love me a bit of VDGG, but they are probably an even harder sell (from the accepted mainstream bunch, at least) than King Crimson

Genesis had a few "angry" moments - the end of Return of the Giant Hogweed (particularly the version on Live), The Knife and Back In New York City spring to mind.


I don't mind Rush, but I think the main problem for a lot of people, at least in this country, is that being in the "prog" genre from the other side of the Atlantic, they tend to be a bit more poppy/mainstream (also cf. Crack the Sky, Spock's Beard, Transatlantic, Starcastle, Kansas, Ambrosia, Styx, Chicago[nb]I've NEVER considered Chicago as prog, but most other people do, so I've included them here[/nb] etc).  The only American bands I can think of, at least from the original wave of prog, that stylistically sit quite happily with their European counterparts, are Happy the Man and Yezda Urfa, but neither have an enormous body of work behind them.

ASFTSN

Quote from: Shit Good Nose on August 10, 2016, 12:32:17 PM
I love me a bit of VDGG, but they are probably an even harder sell (from the accepted mainstream bunch, at least) than King Crimson


Agree with this, in large part because I think the emotional sincerity in Hammill's lyrics is very raw. Which personally I love. 

ASFTSN

On a side note, I was speaking to an Italian friend a while ago and was interested to find out that (according to him) in Italy, Italian prog and Italian fans is (are) sometimes considered slightly 'right-wing', perhaps due to association with movements like Futurism etc.  I suppose that's only surprising if you consider British prog to be flouncy/flower-child/new-age territory.