Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 5,559,187
  • Total Topics: 106,349
  • Online Today: 798
  • Online Ever: 3,311
  • (July 08, 2021, 03:14:41 AM)
Users Online
Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 29, 2024, 06:44:08 AM

Login with username, password and session length

CORBYN TWELVE (you know where to put your mark)

Started by NoSleep, August 21, 2016, 11:02:04 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Labour members/supporters:  Who did you vote for?

Jeremy Corbyn
55 (61.8%)
Owen Smith
16 (18%)
An tSaoi
18 (20.2%)

Total Members Voted: 88

NoSleep

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on August 26, 2016, 07:37:25 AM
Neither Smith or Corbyn had very good answers about how to win back Scottish seats.

We all know why Scotland abandoned Labour, but there's no simple way to reverse that. For UK Labour to consider an alliance with the SNP (a possible sensible answer) they effectively have to abandon Scottish Labour (which is probably not a good message to be going into a leadership election with).

BlodwynPig

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on August 26, 2016, 07:37:25 AM
Neither Smith or Corbyn had very good answers about how to win back Scottish seats. Corbyn seemed to be proposing being left of SNP and calling them phoneys. Smith went on about fighting the Tories and his response seemed to alarm the audience in its lack of local understanding.

The PLP should reflect on the mutinous state of the party membership right now after its treachery and game playing.

After a major wobble and some soul searching I think I will vote Corbyn for leader. It is the job of the party to carry their leader on their shoulders - not the other way around.

Out of karma, but thanks for offering to do the heavy lifting "shoulders"

ps. this thread has gone relatively quiet. Nothing to fuel my ire this morning from the usual suspects.

Large Noise

Quote from: Beagle 2 on August 26, 2016, 07:13:23 AM
I think that's out of date now though isn't it? Haven't contracts been extended and renewed since that was published?

Even so, it explains that the government can buy out the contracts. If they've been renewed it's more expensive, but the process is the same.

Uncle TechTip

It's the leader's job to convince those he works closest with of his ability to lead, if they weren't primarily responsible for his election.

Petey Pate

Quote from: http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/08/yesterday-showed-us-real-owen-smith-and-it-aint-prettyThen, calling for an "honest" discussion on immigration, Smith noted that his wife is a school teacher and that schools in their local area are under pressure from "significant numbers into South Wales of people fleeing the Middle East". In fact, a grand total of 78 people have been resettled in the whole of Wales under the Syrian Vulnerable Persons Resettlement Scheme. In the local authority encompassing Smith's constituency of Pontypridd, the total number is zero.

TheFalconMalteser

QuoteCongratulations to George Galloway on astonishing result in Bradford. Big message here on opposition to wars and austerity

Any clue which decent, loyal, labour MP tweeted the above in 2012?  Some cracking content in that election:

"God KNOWS who is a Muslim and he KNOWS who is not. I, George Galloway, do not drink and never have."

and

"I'm a better Pakistani than he [Mr Hussain] will ever be. God knows who's a Muslim and who is not. And a man that's never out of the pub shouldn't be going around telling people you should vote for him because he's a Muslim."

Queneau

I've just caught up with the hustings from last night. Smith pretty much said that the party will not unite should Corbyn win the leadership election. So, he was setting his pitch with a plea for unity but hinting that it wouldn't happen should Corbyn win. What a total total cunt. That goes for Smith supporters too. You're a bunch of twats. Fuck off and start a Tory-lite party.

TheFalconMalteser

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on August 26, 2016, 07:37:25 AM
It is the job of the party to carry their leader on their shoulders - not the other way around.

What?

Sigh. Die fuhrerprinzip.  Representative parliamentary democracy is too good for some of you curs.

TheFalconMalteser

To restate - we have a Labour leader who tweeted Galloway (vile, scumbag, bully, thrown out the Labour Party for calling for British troops to be killed, suggested the suicide murder of a British PM would be morally justified) congratulations after he beat a Labour candidate.

I do wonder whether after the election the next avenue should be the move to expel Corbyn from the Party. Surely he has broke Labour Party rules?  As Chair of StW he basically did the same thing as Galloway.

Buelligan

Quote from: Petey Pate on August 26, 2016, 09:24:36 AM
Quotehttp://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/08/yesterday-showed-us-real-owen-smith-and-it-aint-pretty
QuoteThen, calling for an "honest" discussion on immigration, Smith noted that his wife is a school teacher and that schools in their local area are under pressure from "significant numbers into South Wales of people fleeing the Middle East". In fact, a grand total of 78 people have been resettled in the whole of Wales under the Syrian Vulnerable Persons Resettlement Scheme. In the local authority encompassing Smith's constituency of Pontypridd, the total number is zero.

Great article, thanks for the link.  Thought this

QuoteBut it is simply not credible to simultaneously say "I agree with Jeremy" and that Jeremy is a "lunatic". No one uses the word "lunatic" to describe someone whose politics they basically share. No one says "your diagnosis of the country's ills is incoherent, and that's the substantive agenda I want to take forward". Smith's remarks indicate that, deep down, he shares the incredulity expressed by so many of his colleagues that anyone would want to abandon the Thatcher-Blair-Cameron "centre ground" of deregulation, privatisation, corporate-empowerment and widening inequality. After all, Corbyn's narrative only appears incoherent to those who regard the post-1979 status quo as self-evidently the best of all possible worlds - give or take a few policy tweaks - rather than the very essence of "what's wrong with Britain".

too, was insightful.

I know I'm biased, obviously, but watching that hustings from Glasgow last night, I really did have a strong feeling that the choice is pretty stark, principle against someone who will say anything, do anything, just to get in power.  I thought it was very revealing, especially some of those moments when Owen Smith kept trying to stick the personal knife in.  Embarrassing and shaming.

Dr Rock

I'm sure the media and TFM will be right on Smith's case for this blatant lie. Although maybe he meant people fleeing the middle-east of Wales, like Llandrindod Wells or somewhere.

TheFalconMalteser

Quote from: Buelligan on August 26, 2016, 10:30:25 AM

too, was insightful.

I know I'm biased, obviously, but watching that hustings from Glasgow last night, I really did have a strong feeling that the choice is pretty stark, principle against someone who will say anything, do anything, just to get in power.  I thought it was very revealing, especially some of those moments when Owen Smith kept trying to stick the personal knife in.  Embarrassing and shaming.

Does Corbyn's support for Galloway perhaps explain why Corbyn is in principle beyond the pale?  Does your comprehension stretch that far? 

We've also seen a series of lies, blatant, obvious lies by this point from Corbyn: Article 50, ahead in the polls, his views on Russia invading Ukraine, traingate, lies at the Select Committee, giving a peerage to Shami.  So "say anything, do anything" is a very blinkered point for you to make.

Oh noes, kind decent Jeremy is full of shit and can't be trusted!

Dr Rock

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/john-mcdonnell-labour-hq-rigged-purge-jeremy-corbyn-supporters-a7209996.html

QuoteJohn McDonnell accuses Labour HQ of 'rigged purge' against Jeremy Corbyn supporters
Accusation comes after it suspends Bakers' Union chief but takes no action against Labour donor who gave over £2m to the Lib Dems

KennyMonster

Quote from: TheFalconMalteser on August 26, 2016, 10:20:55 AM
To restate - we have a Labour leader who tweeted Galloway (vile, scumbag, bully, thrown out the Labour Party for calling for British troops to be killed, suggested the suicide murder of a British PM would be morally justified) congratulations after he beat a Labour candidate.

I do wonder whether after the election the next avenue should be the move to expel Corbyn from the Party. Surely he has broke Labour Party rules?  As Chair of StW he basically did the same thing as Galloway.

I'm not sure about morally justified but a suicide murder would be hard to carry off wouldn't it?

I bit like trying to write an Autobiography of someone else?

If Blair commited suicide it wouldn't be murder because he'd be consenting?


KennyMonster

Quote from: TheFalconMalteser on August 26, 2016, 10:04:37 AM
What?

Sigh. Die fuhrerprinzip.  Representative parliamentary democracy is too good for some of you curs.

So enraged that when he thumps the keyboard with his fists he can't even spell "cunts" properly.

KennyMonster

Quote from: TheFalconMalteser on August 26, 2016, 10:20:55 AM
To restate - we have a Labour leader who tweeted Galloway (vile, scumbag, bully, thrown out the Labour Party for calling for British troops to be killed, suggested the suicide murder of a British PM would be morally justified) congratulations after he beat a Labour candidate.

I do wonder whether after the election the next avenue should be the move to expel Corbyn from the Party. Surely he has broke Labour Party rules?   As Chair of StW he basically did the same thing as Galloway.

I've asked the Labour leader about this and apparently it is OK.

KennyMonster

Quote from: Petey Pate on August 26, 2016, 09:24:36 AM
Then, calling for an "honest" discussion on immigration, Smith noted that his wife is a school teacher and that schools in their local area are under pressure from "significant numbers into South Wales of people fleeing the Middle East". In fact, a grand total of 78 people have been resettled in the whole of Wales under the Syrian Vulnerable Persons Resettlement Scheme. In the local authority encompassing Smith's constituency of Pontypridd, the total number is zero.

Well people have been asking how Labour intend to win back voters that have turned to UKIP. Copying their exaggerations about  immigration numbers seems to be the answer from Smith.

Lee Van Cleef

Smith threatening a party split basically shows they learned nothing from the fear mongering approach to the EU referendum. You can't bully people with threats to get them to do what you want. Fuck sake. Utterly sickening attitude.

TheFalconMalteser

Quote from: Lee Van Cleef on August 26, 2016, 11:16:41 AM
Smith threatening a party split basically shows they learned nothing from the fear mongering approach to the EU referendum. You can't bully people with threats to get them to do what you want. Fuck sake. Utterly sickening attitude.

He's not threatening a split.  Chrissakes.

THE ENTIRE PLP HAS GIVEN A VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE IN THE LEADER.

They have described in excruciating detail, MP after MP, the utter shambles, and increasingly an intentionally divisive style of leadership.  Saying that MPs will have "nowhere to hide" re. free votes.  Refusing to meet.  Carrying out secret policy reviews behind their backs.  Implicit support to threats of deselection.

There isn't a way back.  You can't magically recreate confidence.  What on earth do you think is going to happen?  You think all of a sudden he's going to become productive at PMQs?  You think that that he has any authority in parliament at all after this, on either side of the chamber? It's too late.  He shouldn't have appointed Milne and McDonnell.  He shouldn't have been such a prick.  What do you imagine at PMQs?  Or in a GE?

Lee Van Cleef


In Kenneth Grahame terms this election is Ratty vs Mole.

Dr Rock

QuoteThen, calling for an "honest" discussion on immigration, Smith noted that his wife is a school teacher and that schools in their local area are under pressure from "significant numbers into South Wales of people fleeing the Middle East".

Has any politician mentioned their wife more often than Owen Smith? He's 'normal' you know.

TheFalconMalteser

Quote from: Lee Van Cleef on August 26, 2016, 11:50:33 AM
Oh don't be so fucking obtuse you cretin

Haha stop trying to make fetch happen!  Fetch is not going to happen!

But seriously, one of the elements I see in posts like yours is this total denial that the PLP are... real people.  E.g. people who have spent 10-20 years supporting Labour, doorstepping, working on Committees, understanding the complexity of political issues - being aware of Jeremy Corbyn even.  Half the people who criticise don't even know who they were, one guy on this thread, one of the most consistent posters didn't even know who Jess Phillips is!  Elsewhere we see a total ignorance over how Labour party policy is.

Political illiterates the lot of you! :)

But seriously, there isn't a way for the Labour Party to succeed under Corbyn now.  I would have thought that is clear.  You can lay the blame at the PLP all you want, to which I say show me a single instance where Corbyn has genuinely come out of his comfort zone.  Show me anything he has said during the Leadership Campaign which suggests he will behave differently. When he says people should just ignore abuse?  Is he talking about changing his campaign and having less yes men?  His son is McDonnell's chief of staff #nepotism.

The mentality is like that kid that takes the ball home from football because he's had a tackle that's too hard and started crying.

NoSleep

Quote from: Lee Van Cleef on August 26, 2016, 11:16:41 AM
Smith threatening a party split basically shows they learned nothing from the fear mongering approach to the EU referendum. You can't bully people with threats to get them to do what you want. Fuck sake. Utterly sickening attitude.

They are bent on seizing the party for themselves or destroying it otherwise. Whilst I understand the former (even though they don't stand a chance) the latter is baffling.

Quote from: Dr Rock on August 26, 2016, 11:57:39 AM
Has any politician mentioned their wife more often than Owen Smith? He's 'normal' you know.

Not Ron Davies.

Paul Calf

Quote from: TheFalconMalteser on August 26, 2016, 12:00:32 PM
Haha stop trying to make fetch happen!  Fetch is not going to happen!

But seriously, one of the elements I see in posts like yours is this total denial that the PLP are... real people.  E.g. people who have spent 10-20 years supporting Labour, doorstepping, working on Committees, understanding the complexity of political issues - being aware of Jeremy Corbyn even.  Half the people who criticise don't even know who they were, one guy on this thread, one of the most consistent posters didn't even know who Jess Phillips is!  Elsewhere we see a total ignorance over how Labour party policy is.

Political illiterates the lot of you! :)

But seriously, there isn't a way for the Labour Party to succeed under Corbyn now.  I would have thought that is clear.  You can lay the blame at the PLP all you want, to which I say show me a single instance where Corbyn has genuinely come out of his comfort zone.  Show me anything he has said during the Leadership Campaign which suggests he will behave differently. When he says people should just ignore abuse?  Is he talking about changing his campaign and having less yes men?  His son is McDonnell's chief of staff #nepotism.

The mentality is like that kid that takes the ball home from football because he's had a tackle that's too hard and started crying.

Are you still here, you grubby little rent boy? What's the foulest thing I can make you do if I promise you a job as junior commons researcher?

Endicott

Quote from: NoSleep on August 26, 2016, 12:04:17 PM
They are bent on seizing the party for themselves or destroying it otherwise. Whilst I understand the former (even though they don't stand a chance) the latter is baffling.

It's my ball, you can't have it.

TheFalconMalteser

The idea that any decent socialist can watch the spectacle of these yobs booing and heckling - it's happened at all the hustings.  They're an absolute rabble - and this is something you find attractive?  This is what you consider to be the modern Labour Party, a bunch of Neanderthals who turn up to laugh and jeer at Kezia Dugdale.

What the fuck is wrong with you people?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/owen-smith-rebukes-labour-leadership-debate-audience-for-laughing-at-scottish-labour-leader-kezia-dugdale_uk_57bf3860e4b0ba22a4d3dd6c

The state of this.  Give it a watch. Indefensible.  Arseholes.

Oh and I see he read from a script all last night. 

TheFalconMalteser

Quote from: Paul Calf on August 26, 2016, 12:09:40 PM
Are you still here, you grubby little rent boy?

^^^^^^^^

That's a new twist for Paul Calf, homophobic insults.  Nice guy.

Dr Rock

I liked the bit at the end of the Hustings where Smith reckoned Keir Hardir would vote for him, not Jeremy Corbyn.

Then again, considering Smith's comments about how 'they come over here and we need an honest conversation about how we send the buggers back' maybe he would:

QuoteKeir Hardie, in his evidence to the 1899 House of Commons Select Committee on emigration and immigration, argued that the Scots resented immigrants greatly and that they would want a total immigration ban. When it was pointed out to him that more people left Scotland than entered it, he replied:

'It would be much better for Scotland if those 1,500 were compelled to remain there and let the foreigners be kept out... Dr Johnson said God made Scotland for Scotchmen, and I would keep it so.' According to Hardie, the Lithuanian migrant workers in the mining industry had "filthy habits", they lived off "garlic and oil", and they were carriers of "the Black Death".